The Dark Knight {Spoilers Abound}

I just watched all the Gotham Tonight segments.

I LOVED IT.

I just wish there had been a real mention of the Joker. Even a derogatory one. But I loved it. The Bruce Wayne, Gordon, and Dent segments in particular, but the Maroni one was also great.

I want more.
 
Zombipanda said:
So, am I the only one who likes this movie less and less the more I watch it?
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I don't like it less but I do find things (for lack of a better word) "wrong" or things I would do differently.

I don't think it's a perfect movie but it's pretty damn great.
 
Zombipanda said:
So, am I the only one who likes this movie less and less the more I watch it?
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I do, to an extent.

I've watched it several times now, so I don't want to watch it again for a while. I was on a bus trip and someone suggested we play this film on the onboard DVD player. "No," I thought, "I've seen it a hundred times and I'm not in the mood for such a dark and depressing film." (Seriously, I was reading Azumanga Daioh. It's about cats biting schoolgirls on LSD. The mood whiplash would be enough to snap my metaphisical neck.) But did they listen to me? Nooooo...
 
It hasn't gotten worse for me, but seeing it the first time is so amazing, it feels like it will never be that good again.

I'm chasing the Dark Knight dragon.
 
Bass said:
This film gets better with each viewing if you have a soul.
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:roll:


Don't get me wrong. The action sequences are excellent, and they get better with each viewing. Ledger's performance continues to entertain.

But the more times I watch it, the more the Joker's plan seems less evil genius and more just improbable, the rhetoric of the characters and the internal drama really just starts to grate on my nerves as simplistic and exceedingly black and white, and the idea of this as a serious examination of the character's core values just pales.

Still, that bank heist was ****ing awesome, yeah?
 
Zombipanda said:
But the more times I watch it, the more the Joker's plan seems less evil genius and more just improbable, the rhetoric of the characters and the internal drama really just starts to grate on my nerves as simplistic and exceedingly black and white, and the idea of this as a serious examination of the character's core values just pales?
Click to expand...

:roll:

While it is a great movie to be sure, it does lose a bit of its charm the more you watch it. It is too long, and there are things in it that just aren't needed. The Mr. Reese subplot should have been cut entirely. I would argue that they should have saved Two-Face for a sequel. Sure, have him scarred and killing those responsible for Rachel's death, but leave the majority of that story (as well as what happens to him) for a different movie. It felt tagged on. I will also go out on a line and say that Maggie Gyllenhaal was a worse Rachel than Katie Holmes was. Just saying.

This may sound like I hate the movie, which I don't. It's just that so many people seem to think that TDK is the peak of what a Batman movie (hell even of what all superhero movies) can be. It's probably the best superhero film to date, but it's far from perfect.
 
Bass said:
I just wish there had been a real mention of the Joker. Even a derogatory one. But I loved it. The Bruce Wayne, Gordon, and Dent segments in particular, but the Maroni one was also great.

I want more.
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The Maroni one was really interesting, because it shows how Eric Roberts was going to play the character (completely and utterly over the top, like cartoon gangster) until Nolan reeled him in.

The Gotham Tonight stuff is great and Anthony Michael Hall is perfect, but I don't neccessarily consider them to be canon, because they're quite silly.

DARKKNIGHT said:
I will also go out on a line and say that Maggie Gyllenhaal was a worse Rachel than Katie Holmes was. Just saying.
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Katie Holmes was far more bearable. She only has one, maybe two moments in Batman Begins where she even slightly annoys me ("Yeah! You better run!"). Maggie Gyllenhaal was a constant source of pain for me in The Dark Knight. "Haaarrrvveeyy...." "Allfreeeedd..." she sounded like she was ill half the time.

Also, Katie Holmes is better looking. Just sayin.

When I met Eckhart last year, one of the things I really wanted to ask him was if he knew anything about why she wasn't in TDK. I didn't get a chance to, unfortunately.

This may sound like I hate the movie, which I don't. It's just that so many people seem to think that TDK is the peak of what a Batman movie (hell even of what all superhero movies) can be. It's probably the best superhero film to date, but it's far from perfect.
Click to expand...

It's certainly not the peak of what a Batman movie can be. Batman Begins is a far better Batman movie than The Dark Knight, in terms of characterising Batman and Bruce Wayne (or "who he is and how he came to be" as Bob Kane put it), and visualising him as a creature, rather than a man in a costume. The Dark Knight is just the best film (so far) that happens to have Batman in its cast of characters.

I have far more problems with The Dark Knight than Batman Begins, even though it's the better film.
 
Zombipanda said:
:roll:


Don't get me wrong. The action sequences are excellent, and they get better with each viewing. Ledger's performance continues to entertain.

But the more times I watch it, the more the Joker's plan seems less evil genius and more just improbable, the rhetoric of the characters and the internal drama really just starts to grate on my nerves as simplistic and exceedingly black and white, and the idea of this as a serious examination of the character's core values just pales.

Still, that bank heist was ****ing awesome, yeah?
Click to expand...

I thought those with no soul couldn't type.

Anyhow, the whole "Joker's plan is preposterous" argument. I've heard this before, but I think you're not 'getting' Joker.

Joker has no plan. He as much as says so to Dent. He has a goal. He wants to destroy Gotham's soul. But how he gets that to happen? Not a damn clue. He's not sure if he'll even be there for it. That's why he tries to have Batman and Dent kill him.

Joker is a master of improvisation and turning a situation into win/win for him.

Joker doesn't have a plan, he has several and they're each simple and borne out of the previous plan - make Batman give himself up. In the meantime, kill Dent, Loeb, and the Mayor, etc. "Batman" gives himself up. Joker knows he's possibly set up for a trap and creates the "corrupt Dent" plan to crush Gotham's spirit. The ferries plan is something he comes up with after he blows up the hospital... he's wasnt' expecting to come out alive. He was expecting Dent to kill him. He expected Batman to kill him on the street with the Batpod.

Joker's modus operandi is to create an unpredictable plan, immediately implement it, and see what happens. Joker's ability to improvise makes it look like everything's planned, but he honestly doesn't know what will happen next.

Look at it this way: When Joker turns up on TV and says he's a man of his word, he has no idea Dent will become Two-Face or how this will end.

Gothamite said:
When I met Eckhart last year, one of the things I really wanted to ask him was if he knew anything about why she wasn't in TDK. I didn't get a chance to, unfortunately.
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Too weird is why! They were lovers in THANK YOU FOR SMOKING! How odd it would've been!

Gothamite said:
I have far more problems with The Dark Knight than Batman Begins, even though it's the better film.
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Because you have no soul.
 
Gothamite said:
It's certainly not the peak of what a Batman movie can be. Batman Begins is a far better Batman movie than The Dark Knight, in terms of characterising Batman and Bruce Wayne (or "who he is and how he came to be" as Bob Kane put it), and visualising him as a creature, rather than a man in a costume. The Dark Knight is just the best film (so far) that happens to have Batman in its cast of characters.

I have far more problems with The Dark Knight than Batman Begins, even though it's the better film.
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I disagree. I think while begins did do that the dark knight too that expanded upon that. Also added the why he can be the one to take hard choices, more of the effect batman has on his life and other stuff.
 
J. Agamemnon said:
Maggie Gylenhal wasn't bad. Katie Holmes can't act for crap.
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Katie Holmes is WAY better looking. Not to be crass, but Maggie Gyllenhaal is downright fugly.

And Gyllenhaal is probably a better actress, but during the whole movie she came off too much as an actress. Like she was trying too hard. Katie Holmes may not have been as emotive but at least she didn't seem like an actress, if that makes any sense.
 
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