MaxwellSmart
Well-Known Member
Issues have titles now? Totally missed the boat on that one.
The Ultimates 2 #12 Discussion (SPOILERS!)
- Thread starter MoS
- Start date
Zombipanda
My Boom-Boom's mostly gay
Issues have titles a lot of the time. It's just that they're usually on the inside of the book instead of the cover.
Most Ultimate books have the title running down the right side of the cover.
Ice
Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
The Ultimate issues always have covers on them... Or was this sarcastic?
Like I said above, the Ultimate issues have always have them on the right side (as E said that, too). The Ultimates have had them on the bottom part before during the first volume.
Gemini
Well-Known Member
usually that's just the arc title (magical, clone saga, god war, etc.)the ultimates is the only one that does it for individual stories (the liberators, america fights back, the avengers, wolf in the fold, etc.)E said:
anyway... definitely this was my book of the week
quicksilver taking out hurricane was my favorite part i hated her sooooo much
does anyone get as annoyed with these libereators as me? they think there sooo great friggin' shmucks
5/5 (yes a perfect score) it was brilliant
It's only been fairly recently that USM & UXM stopped naming individual issues instead of using the arc titles.
Ice
Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
UXM stopped a while ago around Return of the King, I believe. USM stopped recently before I dont remember when.
Now, I'll finally get to read the actual issue of #12 this Friday or Saturday. I've seen the images on Hitch's site thanks to a certain someone, but it was just pencils. I already read the spoilers (yeah, yeah) since waiting to see what happened for another few days I could not bear. Can't wait to actually have it in my hand.
DIrishB
The Timeline Guy
It was merely the title of the issue, just like last issue was title "America Strikes Back". In fact, I'm honestly surprised Millar held off this long on using it. At least here (compared to 616), they actually have something to avenge. And so far they did, wonderfully. I think the title makes sense on both levels, and is a nice little nod to 616. This team won't become the Aveners...the Ultimates sells too well under its own name.
Yes. Maxwell is just being Maxwell.
About the minor/healthy thing or Mad's artwork?
Dude...its those words on the right hand side of every Ultimates issue. Wow.
Actually, I think the older issues of USM and UXM both had individual titles for each issue as well, though were still collected in TPBs under a single arc name.
USM stopped individual issue titles after the Cats and Kings arc. UXM stopped for the most part with the World Tour arc, though there is the occasional exception.
MaxwellSmart
Well-Known Member
I'll start off by saying the whole title thing is news to me. Although, in retrospect I should have picked up on it since the issue aren't given a "part _ of _."
In my defense, I'll say that Hitch's art is so enthralling that I'm not surprised I didn't notice. The worst part is that's not even the most oblivious observation I've made.
A couple of years ago, I'm driving down the street and as I pass the local Albertsons I see a big banner that reads, "Fair Tickets For Sale Here." My first thought was that is the stupidest banner I've ever seen. Why would you tell people that the tickets you sell are fair? Shouldn't they assume they're fair? Doesn't that imply they were unfair before? No ones going to want to buy tickets from a place that sold unfair tickets before... I kid you not that was what I was thinking. So, a couple of days later I pass by the same banner with a buddy in the car and I say, "Fair tickets? As apposed to unfair tickets?" He looks at me shocked and says, "No, dumb ***. The Fair is in town this weekend." I couldn't believe I hadn't realized that before.
There my shame is out.
In my defense, I'll say that Hitch's art is so enthralling that I'm not surprised I didn't notice. The worst part is that's not even the most oblivious observation I've made.
A couple of years ago, I'm driving down the street and as I pass the local Albertsons I see a big banner that reads, "Fair Tickets For Sale Here." My first thought was that is the stupidest banner I've ever seen. Why would you tell people that the tickets you sell are fair? Shouldn't they assume they're fair? Doesn't that imply they were unfair before? No ones going to want to buy tickets from a place that sold unfair tickets before... I kid you not that was what I was thinking. So, a couple of days later I pass by the same banner with a buddy in the car and I say, "Fair tickets? As apposed to unfair tickets?" He looks at me shocked and says, "No, dumb ***. The Fair is in town this weekend." I couldn't believe I hadn't realized that before.
There my shame is out.
Ultimate MJ
Well-Known Member
Wow. I can't believe you told that story.
Defintetly explains the whole "not knowing ultimate issues had names" thing though.
Thor
Well-Known Member
Don't worry, Im sure we have all done things like that before.
It was still funny though.
Ultimate Houde
UC's Resident Genetic Recombinator
I finally read it.
Twas a beatdown, that was fo' sure.
Everything I wish to say has been said.
That's all
Twas a beatdown, that was fo' sure.
Everything I wish to say has been said.
That's all
Captain Brighton
Active Member
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2006
- Messages
- 27
Hi guys,
The Christ comparisons with Thor seem pretty deliberate to me, even down to the fact that in issue 12- which was excellent, if quite shockingly violent by comics standards- Loki says that Thor was sent down to earth by his father to bring peace to the world.
Sadly, this suggests to me that, like Christ, Thor is going to die in issue 13- presumably sacrificing himself in order to defeat Loki and save the day. Getting Thor out of the picture will also enable Millar to keep a certain amount of ambiguity about Thor's 'godlike' nature.
However, since he may be a god, can Thor ever really die? So even if he is written out for the time being the door should be left at least ajar for him to come back at some time.
It would be a shame- I love Thor, especially Ultimate Thor as he really is the teams conscience. But maybe as Ultimates3 is going to drop the politics and be more about action, it's felt they don't need a conscience anymore?
This too will be a shame- Steve Rogers, you are a cad and a bounder for killing a helpless man with no hands. I thought that wasn't how we did things?
It has been stated though that someone on the team is going to die at the end of Ultimates2, hasn't it? It would wrap the story up neatly for Thor to sacrifice himself- the only other possibility I can think of is that Hawkeye decides, with his family murdered, that he has nothing else to live for and goes out in a blaze of glory. Which would also be a shame.
I'd really rather they all lived to fight another day.
Well, over to you expert observers..
The Christ comparisons with Thor seem pretty deliberate to me, even down to the fact that in issue 12- which was excellent, if quite shockingly violent by comics standards- Loki says that Thor was sent down to earth by his father to bring peace to the world.
Sadly, this suggests to me that, like Christ, Thor is going to die in issue 13- presumably sacrificing himself in order to defeat Loki and save the day. Getting Thor out of the picture will also enable Millar to keep a certain amount of ambiguity about Thor's 'godlike' nature.
However, since he may be a god, can Thor ever really die? So even if he is written out for the time being the door should be left at least ajar for him to come back at some time.
It would be a shame- I love Thor, especially Ultimate Thor as he really is the teams conscience. But maybe as Ultimates3 is going to drop the politics and be more about action, it's felt they don't need a conscience anymore?
This too will be a shame- Steve Rogers, you are a cad and a bounder for killing a helpless man with no hands. I thought that wasn't how we did things?
It has been stated though that someone on the team is going to die at the end of Ultimates2, hasn't it? It would wrap the story up neatly for Thor to sacrifice himself- the only other possibility I can think of is that Hawkeye decides, with his family murdered, that he has nothing else to live for and goes out in a blaze of glory. Which would also be a shame.
I'd really rather they all lived to fight another day.
Well, over to you expert observers..
olavthehairy
Well-Known Member
I have been waiting for this issue, literally watching the seconds tick by.
And my copy, supposedly posted by Marvel the day after printing, still hasn't arrived yet.
And then I read this thread.
Man, the artwork. I am seriously thinking of commissioning Bryan Hitch to do an Ultimate Thor peice for me (if you are interested, you can get one for just over £1500 for a 11x17 inch pencil and ink job).
I.CANNOT.WAIT.TO.SEE.THIS.LETTERED.AND.IN.COLOUR!
and Pym must die, otherwise the epic Ultimate Avengers 2 is fibbing :wink:
And my copy, supposedly posted by Marvel the day after printing, still hasn't arrived yet.
And then I read this thread.
Man, the artwork. I am seriously thinking of commissioning Bryan Hitch to do an Ultimate Thor peice for me (if you are interested, you can get one for just over £1500 for a 11x17 inch pencil and ink job).
I.CANNOT.WAIT.TO.SEE.THIS.LETTERED.AND.IN.COLOUR!
and Pym must die, otherwise the epic Ultimate Avengers 2 is fibbing :wink:
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ShadowPrime
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2006
- Messages
- 87
One of the problems with being slow to post is... you guys steal all the good stuff! ;-) There is precious little left for us slowpokes but to agree. Yup - LOTS of cool stuff in #12. LOTS. And a few points that I find disappointing, in a very minor way (Iron Man 6 being, basically, a big warship as opposed to armor or a giant robot..er..thing, for example). But, all in all, another great issue. Most of my qualms are probably due to the inevitable "anticipation" factor.. how could ANY issue, so anticipated, so often delayed, possibly meet the "expectations" of those of us so eager to read it?
SO... I will do my best to try and only mention a few things not widely and thoroughly touched on already. Maybe...*S* Unfortunately, most of these deal with quibbles...
> I would have liked to have seen the Liberators present a real challenge for the Ultimates, to be overcome in a really tough, epic fight. Don't get me wrong, I wanted the Ultimates to kick butt... ultimately... and after all the torture and angst they/we have endured for issue after issue, it was time for some big time payback, BUT... they completely rolled over the Liberators. Part of that was doubtless due to the need to have so MUCH happen in this issue, but even so - it wasn't even a contest. The Liberators were OBLITERATED. The only Liberator who put up much of a fight, onscreen, was Abdul. The rest just got OWNED.
> In a similar vein... I wanted... more EMOTION in this issue. I don't know how it could have been shoe-horned in there... maybe via Hawkeye... but this wasn't even "just" another fight for the life of the planet, as in the battle with the alien invaders. These guys had HURT the Ultimates on a very personal level...VERY personal... and then had gone on to RAVAGE the USA. To kill a LOT of Americans, to destroy large parts of several cities, etc, etc. But... BUT... I grant you... a LOT had to get done in this issue and I don't know any way to easily work in this emotional resonance. Hard to emote and throw punches. Maybe next issue will deal with this.
> Personally, I think the Thor/Jesus comparisons only work on a very superficial level. Not kicking off a religious discussion here, just saying that while we are clearly MEANT to see SOME parallels... I don't think there is a lot of depth there. So yes, we get the "Father, why have you foresaken me" stuff, and the "Come to bring peace" stuff (How, exactly?), etc, but.... I think it is just a cool character "twist" on the "old" Thor motif. Personally.
> Up to this point, Loki has been nothing if not clever. So how can he really be surprised at Thor's return? Thor wasn't dead, after all, just locked up. It would be kind of amazing if he DIDN'T pop up at some point. Granted, his timing really rains on Loki's parade, so I guess the "Oh no..." makes SOME sense... but .... I hope Loki doesn't just cave in three frames next issue.
> Nice to see the Wasp play a "physically significant" role, via her growth to giant size. She has been a key player throughout, taking down Hulk, blowing the whistle on the alien invaders, freeing Cap, etc, but it was good here to see her get to dish out some physical punishment for a change. *S*
> And lastly... I think some of the scorn being directed at Cap over his killing of Abdul is related more to his politics than anything else. When Hawkeye killed the evil (but physically unimposing) scientist who had been torturing him - basically, a revenge killing - I didn't hear many protests. Hulk, for goodness sake, punched Abomination's HEAD off after he was already reduced to an armless, cowering nonfactor. Quicksilver killed off Hurricane when it sure looked as if he could easily have simply subdued her. Iron Man vaporized Crimson Dynamo, after previously (apparently) brain-damaging Widow (no wasted sympathy there, but still!).
Granted - and I see this as a writing misstep, but that is just me - the juxtaposition of this end to the fight, with the discussion of whether Abdul would be executed if he surrendered, makes things more...problematic. I can see that, and I certainly grant that. BUT... and I do think this is relevant... Abdul had NOT surrendered. He had the chance, he chose to fight on, and he chose to abandon his desire for a "fair fight". He basically indicated he would not be taken prisoner. What could he do, handless? Not much that I can see (blow himself up?). But I don't see this as being the same as Cap "executing" Abdul after he surrendered. I see it as Cap, finally having had enough, enough of this guy, enough of his threats, enough of what he had done to Cap and to the country, putting an end to him. Harsh. Brutal. Not what the "mainstream" Marvel Cap would have done. I honestly think it was "meant" to read as the final, emotional payoff after all the angst of the last number of issues (before the big return of Thor, of course!). But it was handled clumsily (IMHO).
An exciting, action packed issue that definitely leaves me with mixed feelings because we all know an amazing run of entertainment, of terrific writing and amazing art, is coming to an end (not a shot at the new crew!)... quite a great ride!
Shadow
SO... I will do my best to try and only mention a few things not widely and thoroughly touched on already. Maybe...*S* Unfortunately, most of these deal with quibbles...
> I would have liked to have seen the Liberators present a real challenge for the Ultimates, to be overcome in a really tough, epic fight. Don't get me wrong, I wanted the Ultimates to kick butt... ultimately... and after all the torture and angst they/we have endured for issue after issue, it was time for some big time payback, BUT... they completely rolled over the Liberators. Part of that was doubtless due to the need to have so MUCH happen in this issue, but even so - it wasn't even a contest. The Liberators were OBLITERATED. The only Liberator who put up much of a fight, onscreen, was Abdul. The rest just got OWNED.
> In a similar vein... I wanted... more EMOTION in this issue. I don't know how it could have been shoe-horned in there... maybe via Hawkeye... but this wasn't even "just" another fight for the life of the planet, as in the battle with the alien invaders. These guys had HURT the Ultimates on a very personal level...VERY personal... and then had gone on to RAVAGE the USA. To kill a LOT of Americans, to destroy large parts of several cities, etc, etc. But... BUT... I grant you... a LOT had to get done in this issue and I don't know any way to easily work in this emotional resonance. Hard to emote and throw punches. Maybe next issue will deal with this.
> Personally, I think the Thor/Jesus comparisons only work on a very superficial level. Not kicking off a religious discussion here, just saying that while we are clearly MEANT to see SOME parallels... I don't think there is a lot of depth there. So yes, we get the "Father, why have you foresaken me" stuff, and the "Come to bring peace" stuff (How, exactly?), etc, but.... I think it is just a cool character "twist" on the "old" Thor motif. Personally.
> Up to this point, Loki has been nothing if not clever. So how can he really be surprised at Thor's return? Thor wasn't dead, after all, just locked up. It would be kind of amazing if he DIDN'T pop up at some point. Granted, his timing really rains on Loki's parade, so I guess the "Oh no..." makes SOME sense... but .... I hope Loki doesn't just cave in three frames next issue.
> Nice to see the Wasp play a "physically significant" role, via her growth to giant size. She has been a key player throughout, taking down Hulk, blowing the whistle on the alien invaders, freeing Cap, etc, but it was good here to see her get to dish out some physical punishment for a change. *S*
> And lastly... I think some of the scorn being directed at Cap over his killing of Abdul is related more to his politics than anything else. When Hawkeye killed the evil (but physically unimposing) scientist who had been torturing him - basically, a revenge killing - I didn't hear many protests. Hulk, for goodness sake, punched Abomination's HEAD off after he was already reduced to an armless, cowering nonfactor. Quicksilver killed off Hurricane when it sure looked as if he could easily have simply subdued her. Iron Man vaporized Crimson Dynamo, after previously (apparently) brain-damaging Widow (no wasted sympathy there, but still!).
Granted - and I see this as a writing misstep, but that is just me - the juxtaposition of this end to the fight, with the discussion of whether Abdul would be executed if he surrendered, makes things more...problematic. I can see that, and I certainly grant that. BUT... and I do think this is relevant... Abdul had NOT surrendered. He had the chance, he chose to fight on, and he chose to abandon his desire for a "fair fight". He basically indicated he would not be taken prisoner. What could he do, handless? Not much that I can see (blow himself up?). But I don't see this as being the same as Cap "executing" Abdul after he surrendered. I see it as Cap, finally having had enough, enough of this guy, enough of his threats, enough of what he had done to Cap and to the country, putting an end to him. Harsh. Brutal. Not what the "mainstream" Marvel Cap would have done. I honestly think it was "meant" to read as the final, emotional payoff after all the angst of the last number of issues (before the big return of Thor, of course!). But it was handled clumsily (IMHO).
An exciting, action packed issue that definitely leaves me with mixed feelings because we all know an amazing run of entertainment, of terrific writing and amazing art, is coming to an end (not a shot at the new crew!)... quite a great ride!
Shadow
I don't think so. He has already been crucified. Now he has risen again.
Captain Brighton
Active Member
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2006
- Messages
- 27
OK, Thor-as-Christ only works so far; for one thing, he is the Norse god of war, hardly known for being a peace-loving chap in the Norse legends.
But Thor has essentially been the central character in Ultimates 2 and the final episode has got to bring the whole is he crazy or a God or both thing to a conclusion. Also, we've been told that there's going to be a fatality on the team and as far as I know there've been no sketches or suggestions regarding Thor in Ultimates 3 as yet.
But as I said, I dig Thor and I really hope I'm wrong.
Also, surely the reason Tony Stark doesn't go out as Iron Man 6 more often is that it's hardly the thing to wear for flying past office buildings hoping to impress pretty secretaries?
Oh yeah, also I think it was entirely in character for Cap to kill Abdul like that, and that the scene was well-written; no criticisms of Millar are implied here. I just don't think it was very noble. I mean, Hulk is Hulk- ripping peoples' arms off is what he does. But I think the killing of Abdul was deliberately written to leave us feeling a little unsettled.
But Thor has essentially been the central character in Ultimates 2 and the final episode has got to bring the whole is he crazy or a God or both thing to a conclusion. Also, we've been told that there's going to be a fatality on the team and as far as I know there've been no sketches or suggestions regarding Thor in Ultimates 3 as yet.
But as I said, I dig Thor and I really hope I'm wrong.
Also, surely the reason Tony Stark doesn't go out as Iron Man 6 more often is that it's hardly the thing to wear for flying past office buildings hoping to impress pretty secretaries?
Oh yeah, also I think it was entirely in character for Cap to kill Abdul like that, and that the scene was well-written; no criticisms of Millar are implied here. I just don't think it was very noble. I mean, Hulk is Hulk- ripping peoples' arms off is what he does. But I think the killing of Abdul was deliberately written to leave us feeling a little unsettled.
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Ice
Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
Hi, I don't think we've met. My name's Ice. I'm a mod. How are you? Welcome to the site. I hope all is going well.
This was a good issue wasn't it? Oh, you know that Millar!
This was a good issue wasn't it? Oh, you know that Millar!
McCheese
Well-Known Member
We've seen a scetch of him by Mad. Tiny ears.
Ice
Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
And Loeb has mentioned last year (or whenever it was) in an issue of Wizard that he has plans for Thor. He's supposedly going to introduce Ultimate Asgard, as it was said before.
