The Ultimates 2 #4 Discussion (Spoilers)

TheManWithoutFear

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3 Ultimate Titles in one day and this was by far the best one. I'm sorry I'm a firm believer that Thor is innocent. I think if Loki is supposed to be as good as he's supposed to be than he's really got the whole world against Thor. The best scene was with Quicksilver darting through the woods and Thor with the lightning... just awesome. Still stickin' to my thoughts on Widow. I don't think they'll make it to the wedding. Damn I love this title.
 

Ice

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I don't know about you guys, but I believe Thor. But damn, that last scene, the best part I've read in the Ultimates series so far.
 

moonmaster

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I liked it. For some reason though, I was almost disappointed. It might have been from all the hype: somehow I feel like it couldn't have lived up to it.

But, I still enjoyed it a lot. And, plus, Thor's origin probably isn't complete. I kinda hope that Thor's right. If Loki is real than he probably could have made up Gunnar Golmen and all that Norwegian super soldier stuff. The European Super soldiers looked great though (Captain France looked like kind of a d**k, though... Nah, I'm just saying that because he's French).

And, finally issue #5: Thor vs the Ultimates. I can't wait....
 

moonmaster

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Ultimate Gambit said:
can anyone give us a quick review for those of us who don't receive this issue until next week?

Do you mean a summary of what happened?
 

moonmaster

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Ultimate Gambit said:
yes... that is exactly what I mean

You probably read the preview, so I'll skip ahead to the rest of the issue. Widow gets her own Iron Man-esque suit. While testing it, Tony proposes to her (he lines up 3 million people to spell out "Will You Marry Me?") She accepts. Thor shows up during a protest in Italy. He believes that the cops are unfairly harassing the protesters, so he begins attacking. The team is called to Brussels, where they meet the super human defense guys (Cap. Britain, Cap. Spain, Cap. Italy, and Cap. France) who haven't gone public yet.

Then they meet Gunnar Golmen. The story he tells them is as follows: He worked on the Norwegian defense team. They began work on a super soldier of their own, who would be called Thor, after one of the old norse gods. They built a bio mechanical harness that gave its wearer flight, durability, and superstrength (The harness is Thor's 6 circle shirt thing he wears). The hammer was a clever vehicle for a battery that could alter the environment (the weather) and teleport people and objects. Golmen's brother, Thorlief, had severe emotional problems and stole the technology. He went completely insane and destroyed the Norwegian facility, and now 18 months later the Ultimates have to take him out.

SHIELD knew about this, but waited because they know how powerful he is and didn't think he was an immediate threat. So, The Ultimates and the Euro guys confront Thor in Norway. He tells them that Loki is manipulating them and none of it is true but they don't believe him. The Ultimates get ready to fight him...
 

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I loved this issue. I've never seen a book that was 4 issues in row - BAM BAM BAM BAM - of high energy like this.

I don't even know what to think of Thor. Both sides are pretty believable!
 

Dr.Strangefate

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This Issue has more and more things pointing to Loki being the Trickster God. Especially his name.

Gunnar, in a ancient Norse myth, is a man who wishes to marry Brunhilde, but is unable to complete the task she puts in front of him. It is the demi-god hero Sigurd in disguise as Gunnar who finally completes this trap. (im saying that Loki is taking a cue from the germanic hero and taking the name Gunnar)

Other thing, from way back in U1 Vol 1: Thor could read banner's mind. How do you expect that this suit magically gave him telepathy? And that bomb was going to wipe out the galaxy, how in all the gods of asgard's names could a loony with a hammer that can teleport things all around the world dispose of that sort of bomb safely?

Still... Its possible he's just nuts, but its so uncharicteristic for ALL these guys to turn against him so fast. I still think that he's who he says he is.
 

jtg3885

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Um, just a sidenote, he didn't destroy the Norwegian facility, he did damage to The Dome, the European Union's equivalent of the Triskelion.

I'm having fun picking out the rest of the super soldiers shown in the group shot though. There's a German woman who wears what appears to be a colorized version of the Wasp's costume, as does the woman from... Finland I believe has the blue and white flag? A couple that could go any direction, but there's one that might be a Denmark or Austria... actually, two that could be Denmark or Austria. A soldier near the Finland that could be Sweden... I wanna go ask Millar if he actually has any data squirreled away about these people.
 

Ice

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Dr.Strangefate said:
This Issue has more and more things pointing to Loki being the Trickster God. Especially his name.

Gunnar, in a ancient Norse myth, is a man who wishes to marry Brunhilde, but is unable to complete the task she puts in front of him. It is the demi-god hero Sigurd in disguise as Gunnar who finally completes this trap. (im saying that Loki is taking a cue from the germanic hero and taking the name Gunnar)

Other thing, from way back in U1 Vol 1: Thor could read banner's mind. How do you expect that this suit magically gave him telepathy? And that bomb was going to wipe out the galaxy, how in all the gods of asgard's names could a loony with a hammer that can teleport things all around the world dispose of that sort of bomb safely?
See, that just makes me believe more that Thor is real. :D
 

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Dr.Strangefate said:
Other thing, from way back in U1 Vol 1: Thor could read banner's mind. How do you expect that this suit magically gave him telepathy? And that bomb was going to wipe out the galaxy, how in all the gods of asgard's names could a loony with a hammer that can teleport things all around the world dispose of that sort of bomb safely?

I noticed that that was not addressed. :D
 

TheManWithoutFear

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Doctor the name is exactly what I was thinkin' my Norse mythology is off but I was waiting for someone to come in and comment on the doctor's name. Awesome thoughts as always. I can't wait to see what happens when they find that Thor is not lying.
 

jtg3885

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Or it could be both Column A and Column B. Thor might be a whack job running around with the best in Norwegian super soldier technology, but that doesn't mean Loki doesn't exist. What if Thor was their version of the Hulk, and Loki their Captain America? They created Loki first, but couldn't control him. In an attempt to reign Loki in, they created Thor. They've admitted the hammer manipulates space and time, what if the technology stems from something that gave Loki actual reality-manipulation powers?
 

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jtg3885 said:
Or it could be both Column A and Column B. Thor might be a whack job running around with the best in Norwegian super soldier technology, but that doesn't mean Loki doesn't exist. What if Thor was their version of the Hulk, and Loki their Captain America? They created Loki first, but couldn't control him. In an attempt to reign Loki in, they created Thor. They've admitted the hammer manipulates space and time, what if the technology stems from something that gave Loki actual reality-manipulation powers?

Good analogy.
 

Wamu

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I believe Thor

okay here's why I think it's Loki causing trouble.

in issue 1, when Thor is speaking with Volstagg, there is a man seen in the background looking directly at Thor's table. he has what I would call an evil grin.(someone already pointed him out in another thread). anyway, right after this guy passes out of the fram, Thor's buddy Volstagg is no longer there. the waiter says something about how he has been talking to himself for 5 minutes. as soon as this guy walked by, reality changed.

now in issue 4 Gunnar Golmen looks exactly like the guy from issue 1! check it out.

now if Gunnar is just a simple scientist, why is he doing survalliance and taking the risk that Thorlief would notice him? also, the story about the theft rings a bit untrue. I know people like breaking the rules, but if I am working on a top secret super human defense program, how in the world does he get clearance to let his brother see it? doesn't sound right to me.

Gunnar is Loki. book him Dano.
 

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Wamu said:
okay here's why I think it's Loki causing trouble.

in issue 1, when Thor is speaking with Volstagg, there is a man seen in the background looking directly at Thor's table. he has what I would call an evil grin.(someone already pointed him out in another thread). anyway, right after this guy passes out of the fram, Thor's buddy Volstagg is no longer there. the waiter says something about how he has been talking to himself for 5 minutes. as soon as this guy walked by, reality changed.

now in issue 4 Gunnar Golmen looks exactly like the guy from issue 1! check it out.

now if Gunnar is just a simple scientist, why is he doing survalliance and taking the risk that Thorlief would notice him? also, the story about the theft rings a bit untrue. I know people like breaking the rules, but if I am working on a top secret super human defense program, how in the world does he get clearance to let his brother see it? doesn't sound right to me.

Gunnar is Loki. book him Dano.

Awesome. I really like that - the little hints in previous issues. It isn't done nearly enough in comics.
 

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