Touching the Ultimates with Jeph Loeb (NSFW)

Re: Touching on the Ultimates with Jeph Loeb.

Wade_Wilson said:
I don't know how we can even complain about the hunch that Joe Mad is late when we haven't even seen v2 #13...and I'm beginning to wonder if we ever will.
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I wonder if I'm the only one who still hasn't actually read Issue 7... maybe waiting for the trade was a bad idea, but I like the fact that delays come to a point where I just don't care quite quickly. I'll read it all at once and that's probably what I'll do with U3 (unless the solits make it look like ****).
 
Re: Touching on the Ultimates with Jeph Loeb.

E said:
What difference does it make?

If it's a project, it's a project. Whether it's a game or a comic or whatever.
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I wasn't saying it only had to be comics. I've searched the web high and low for info on anything the guy might be doing (at the moment or in recent history), and come up with zilch. Like I said, with the internet what it is, if he were actually working on something there'd most likely be word of it (like I said, the guy does have a fanbase)...and there isn't. Besides of course Ultimates 3, but I wouldn't be surprised if the farthest he's gotten is that promo pic with Venom/Wasp/Black Panther.

Courtesy of Mad's own website, his "latest" projects are a few comic covers (the most notable Onslaught Reborn #2). The only other somewhat recent news (from last July) was that he was doing concept designs for a comic/game called "Iron and the Maiden"...thats it.

The last update on his site was January 3 of this year, reminding people Onslaught Reborn #2 was out.

Now if he were working on anything else, I'm pretty sure it'd be on his own damn website.

Now, it is possible he's working on other projects and its not being mentioned on the site...but then again, given the inane amount of info on the few things the guy did have going on, I expect when some Ultimates 3 work is actually done, we'll know about it. I mean come on, its a very high-profile and eagerly awaited book thats going to recieve a lot of coverage in the industry when it actually gets close to shipping...but we both know that isn't going to be for a long, long time.

Thats the difference it makes.

E said:
What are you agreeing with? He basically said he thinks the guy was working on video game art but didn't know. Whatever, John Byrne. :p
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Whatever, Mad-lover. Why are you defending him, huh? You wanna marry Joe Mad and have his babies?

E and Mad, sitting in a tree, K-I-S-S-I...

I'll stop now.

Wade_Wilson said:
I don't know how we can even complain about the hunch that Joe Mad is late when we haven't even seen v2 #13...and I'm beginning to wonder if we ever will.
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I guess its because we've already gotten insane delays on the title for the first two volumes, I didn't expect Marvel to be so bone-headed about it that they'd hire Mad (a notoriously late artist, at least since the late 90's) for Ultimates 3, but they did.

As I said before, I might be jumping the gun...but I'm 99% sure I'm not...I'm just doing it before official word is out that we won't see Ultimates 3 until 2011.
 
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Re: Touching on the Ultimates with Jeph Loeb.

DIrishB said:
Whatever, Mad-lover. Why are you defending him, huh? You wanna marry Joe Mad and have his babies?

E and Mad, sitting in a tree, K-I-S-S-I...

I'll stop now.
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:D

I don't even particularly care for his art actually.
 
Re: Touching on the Ultimates with Jeph Loeb.

Foolsfolly said:
I now know why there was a Church of Bass.
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I don't. These people are crazy.

As for the topic at hand...

I remember when Hitch signed on to do JLA with Mark Waid. He had just finished Authority and was working to deadlines and being completely on time.

Then DC changed the scheduling and that made him, overnight, 5 weeks late. Just like that.

Adam Hughes has been announced to be writing and drawing All-Star Wonder Woman and he's working very hard to make sure DC don't solicit #1 until he's finished #6 - that way it can't be delayed. But he's aware it might be out of his hands.

Mad might be facing a similar situation. Don't know.

The problem I have is not that Ultimates 3 (or Ultimates 2 or All-Star Wonder Woman) take 2 years to do. I don't mind that.

What I think we mind is that we're told it'll be out at a certain time and then it doesn't come out. When we're halfway through an arc and suddenly, there's no update when the next issue will be. This is not something that would happen on TV.

To be honest, I think its the combination of the company's who are over-eager to sell the product and solicit it and release it long before the product is ready to be released, and the artist's who commit to something that they foolishly think they can do when it's a much higher workload than they're willing to admit.

I think it's that lack of foresight, on both sides, that results in delays, rather than the blame squarely being laid on any one person.

But it is a ridiculous situation when you consider 52 is a weekly comic and has yet to be delayed. It's very amateurish.
 
Re: Touching on the Ultimates with Jeph Loeb.

I won't wait 4 months between issues for Joe Mad. His art isn't that good. Waiting for Hitch is one thing, but that is only because I maintain an unrequited (and totally heterosexual) crush on him.
 
Re: Touching on the Ultimates with Jeph Loeb.

E said:
What are you agreeing with? He basically said he thinks the guy was working on video game art but didn't know. Whatever, John Byrne. :p
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Oh, DAAMMMNNN!!!

I cannot think of a worse insult.
Wade_Wilson said:
I won't wait 4 months between issues for Joe Mad. His art isn't that good. Waiting for Hitch is one thing, but that is only because I maintain an unrequited (and totally heterosexual) crush on him.
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Suuurree.
 
Re: Touching on the Ultimates with Jeph Loeb.

Here's what I wrote at joequesada.com:

"Again, I don't think anybody's arguing that an artist shouldn't do their best work. The problem lies mainly in the scheduling. If Ultimates 2 had been released bi-monthly from its inception in December 2004 its last issue would still be late (like three months) but not six months or however long its been.

Now, three months is still a long time to be late, but that would only be for one issue. All the others would have shipped on time, as opposed to the last six each coming progressively later.

But then there are creators who get special schedules or bi-monthly books but still don't come through, like Lindleof, Heinberg, and Maduierera.

Joe Mad was announced as Ultimates 3 penciller about twenty months ago and in that time he's "almost finished" two issues. That's insane on a level that shouldn't just be forgiven because his work might be great (but probably won't be). Ultimates 3 is six issues. That's 132 pages. By the time Ultimates 3 issue 6 should be released, let's say December 2007, that will be about a thousand days since he was announced as artist. Which gives him about a week to draw each page.

Now, as there's almost no way Ultimates 3 issue 6 will be released by December 2007 that means he needs more than seven days to draw each page of the book. That's not just "growing roses," that's freaking insane. It's inexcusable and he is definately incapable of being a professional comic book artist.

Now, if he wanted to self-publish a book and release one whenever he got done (<<<cough>>>Battlechasers<<<cough>>>) I wouldn't care. But that's not how a professional comic book company works, nor should it be. Even an original graphic novel has a deadline. "
 
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Re: Touching on the Ultimates with Jeph Loeb.

E said:
:D

I don't even particularly care for his art actually.
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I know...

;)

Bass said:
I don't. These people are crazy.

As for the topic at hand...

I remember when Hitch signed on to do JLA with Mark Waid. He had just finished Authority and was working to deadlines and being completely on time.

Then DC changed the scheduling and that made him, overnight, 5 weeks late. Just like that.

Adam Hughes has been announced to be writing and drawing All-Star Wonder Woman and he's working very hard to make sure DC don't solicit #1 until he's finished #6 - that way it can't be delayed. But he's aware it might be out of his hands.

Mad might be facing a similar situation. Don't know.

The problem I have is not that Ultimates 3 (or Ultimates 2 or All-Star Wonder Woman) take 2 years to do. I don't mind that.

What I think we mind is that we're told it'll be out at a certain time and then it doesn't come out. When we're halfway through an arc and suddenly, there's no update when the next issue will be. This is not something that would happen on TV.

To be honest, I think its the combination of the company's who are over-eager to sell the product and solicit it and release it long before the product is ready to be released, and the artist's who commit to something that they foolishly think they can do when it's a much higher workload than they're willing to admit.

I think it's that lack of foresight, on both sides, that results in delays, rather than the blame squarely being laid on any one person.

But it is a ridiculous situation when you consider 52 is a weekly comic and has yet to be delayed. It's very amateurish.
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Completely agree on all counts. I guess as a customer I feel slighted as well...I mean what does it say about a company who can't live up to deadlines on a more than regular basis?

I have no problem with bi-monthly, quarterly, hell, even bi-annual or annual publishing schedules...I just have a problem with companies not sticking to them. I understand stuff happens, and thus delays happen, but when its been a major hallmark of the series (and sometimes overshadows the issues themselves) as is the case with the Ultimates, I think I, and almost everyone else, expected better in Ultimates 3--maybe not quality wise in terms of story/characterization/art--but at least in terms of shipping delays. Marvel obviously was trying to prevent this as well, by keeping it at six issues (though not sure how much of that was Loeb and how much was an editorial standpoint).

As to what I said about the delays overshadowing the issues themselves, don't get me wrong: I've enjoyed every issue by Millar and Hitch. But (probably in large part due to the long months of no new Ultimates issues), often-times the topic of conversation pertaining to the Ultimates are the continuous delays. Its a shame, really. However, at least in the end, it'll still make a hell of a TPB read (Ultimates 1 and 2).

Joe Kalicki said:
Here's what I wrote at joequesada.com:

"Again, I don't think anybody's arguing that an artist shouldn't do their best work. The problem lies mainly in the scheduling. If Ultimates 2 had been released bi-monthly from its inception in December 2004 its last issue would still be late (like three months) but not six months or however long its been.

Now, three months is still a long time to be late, but that would only be for one issue. All the others would have shipped on time, as opposed to the last six each coming progressively later.

But then there are creators who get special schedules or bi-monthly books but still don't come through, like Lindleof, Heinberg, and Maduierera.

Joe Mad was announced as Ultimates 3 penciller about twenty months ago and in that time he's "almost finished" two issues. That's insane on a level that shouldn't just be forgiven because his work might be great (but probably won't be). Ultimates 3 is six issues. That's 132 pages. By the time Ultimates 3 issue 6 should be released, let's say December 2007, that will be about a thousand days since he was announced as artist. Which gives him about a week to draw each page.

Now, as there's almost no way Ultimates 3 issue 6 will be released by December 2007 that means he needs more than sveen days to draw each page of the book. That's not just "growing roses," that's freaking insane. It's inexcusable and he is definately incapable of being a professional comic book artist.

Now, if he wanted to self-publish a book and release one whenever he got done (<<<cough>>>Battlechasers<<<cough>>>) I wouldn't care. But that's not how a professional comic book company works, nor should it be. Even an original graphic novel has a deadline. "
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Thank you, sir. Its been an honor griping along side you.

Like I've said pretty much since Mad was signed, the delays on Ultimates 3 are going to make Ultimates 1 and 2 seem like it shipped weekly.
 
Re: Touching on the Ultimates with Jeph Loeb.

Joe Kalicki said:
Here's what I wrote at joequesada.com:

"Again, I don't think anybody's arguing that an artist shouldn't do their best work. The problem lies mainly in the scheduling. If Ultimates 2 had been released bi-monthly from its inception in December 2004 its last issue would still be late (like three months) but not six months or however long its been.

Now, three months is still a long time to be late, but that would only be for one issue. All the others would have shipped on time, as opposed to the last six each coming progressively later.

But then there are creators who get special schedules or bi-monthly books but still don't come through, like Lindleof, Heinberg, and Maduierera.

Joe Mad was announced as Ultimates 3 penciller about twenty months ago and in that time he's "almost finished" two issues. That's insane on a level that shouldn't just be forgiven because his work might be great (but probably won't be). Ultimates 3 is six issues. That's 132 pages. By the time Ultimates 3 issue 6 should be released, let's say December 2007, that will be about a thousand days since he was announced as artist. Which gives him about a week to draw each page.

Now, as there's almost no way Ultimates 3 issue 6 will be released by December 2007 that means he needs more than seven days to draw each page of the book. That's not just "growing roses," that's freaking insane. It's inexcusable and he is definately incapable of being a professional comic book artist.

Now, if he wanted to self-publish a book and release one whenever he got done (<<<cough>>>Battlechasers<<<cough>>>) I wouldn't care. But that's not how a professional comic book company works, nor should it be. Even an original graphic novel has a deadline. "
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I hope Joey Q says something to that. He's pretty well known for spinning **** online, but I want to see him try to talk out of this.
 
Re: Touching on the Ultimates with Jeph Loeb.

And now we know....


And knowing is lafk the battle


Kalicki JOEEEEEE!
 
Re: Touching on the Ultimates with Jeph Loeb.

Joe Kalicki said:
Here's what I wrote at joequesada.com:

"Again, I don't think anybody's arguing that an artist shouldn't do their best work. The problem lies mainly in the scheduling. If Ultimates 2 had been released bi-monthly from its inception in December 2004 its last issue would still be late (like three months) but not six months or however long its been.

Now, three months is still a long time to be late, but that would only be for one issue. All the others would have shipped on time, as opposed to the last six each coming progressively later.

But then there are creators who get special schedules or bi-monthly books but still don't come through, like Lindleof, Heinberg, and Maduierera.

Joe Mad was announced as Ultimates 3 penciller about twenty months ago and in that time he's "almost finished" two issues. That's insane on a level that shouldn't just be forgiven because his work might be great (but probably won't be). Ultimates 3 is six issues. That's 132 pages. By the time Ultimates 3 issue 6 should be released, let's say December 2007, that will be about a thousand days since he was announced as artist. Which gives him about a week to draw each page.

Now, as there's almost no way Ultimates 3 issue 6 will be released by December 2007 that means he needs more than seven days to draw each page of the book. That's not just "growing roses," that's freaking insane. It's inexcusable and he is definately incapable of being a professional comic book artist.

Now, if he wanted to self-publish a book and release one whenever he got done (<<<cough>>>Battlechasers<<<cough>>>) I wouldn't care. But that's not how a professional comic book company works, nor should it be. Even an original graphic novel has a deadline. "
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I have to say, I disagree with the idea that there's a specific amount of time an artist can spend on a comic page in which it's considered 'professional'. The time it takes someone to complete a page has nothing to do with their professional nature. By your argument, because I could churn out seven (albiet terrible) comic pages a day, I'd be a professional due to the volume, and I've got to say I disagree with that.

I think your last comment about him self-publishing whenever he gets something done is fine, but it's not how a professional comic book company works it what's accurate and much more the point of the issue.

The lack of professionalism isn't that it takes X time to do an issue, it's that the comic is solicited and scheduled to be released at a certain time, and due to reasons that will probably never be truly apparent to us, those schedules are continually missed and delayed for unknown periods of time. I think that's the meat of the matter (mmm... meat).

But yeah, I agree with everything except the idea that you can only spend a certain amount of time on a comic page before you're no longer professional.
 
Re: Touching on the Ultimates with Jeph Loeb.

Bass said:
But yeah, I agree with everything except the idea that you can only spend a certain amount of time on a comic page before you're no longer professional.
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Sorry I'm not clear, that's not entirely what I meant (but close). When you're hired to do a job with set deadlines it's professional to make them. If you know you need to do 22 pages in 30 days, that's what you need to do. If you know you can't do that, you take another job you can do. If it takes you a week to do a page, that's fine. Take a book that's released twice a year, or do fill-ins or covers.

That would be the professional thing to do.

I'm not saying Marvel's blameless, but I'm assuming they got promises from Mad about his speed on the books. I know Loeb promised it would be on time, I was at the panel when he did it. I suppose it's possible he was speaking out of his *** without consulting Mad first.

But when a book's not being done in a professionally timely manner within the timeframe set by the contract the talent signed, Marvel is pretty screwed. They could fire Mad and get someone else. But then everyone who thought they were getting a Joe Mad book would be pissed. Or, they could release the book late and people like me will be pissed.

Either way, they're forced to make a choice they shouldn't have to by the unprofessional behavior of the late party.

There's no set number, like a page a week, it's completely relative to the assignment.
 
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Re: Touching on the Ultimates with Jeph Loeb.

Joe Kalicki said:
Sorry I'm not clear, that's not entirely what I meant (but close). When you're hired to do a job with set deadlines it's professional to make them. If you know you need to do 22 pages in 30 days, that's what you need to do. If you know you can't do that, you take another job you can do. If it takes you a week to do a page, that's fine. Take a book that's released twice a year, or do fill-ins or covers.

That would be the professional thing to do.

I'm not saying Marvel's blameless, but I'm assuming they got promises from Mad about his speed on the books. I know Loeb promised it would be on time, I was at the panel when he did it. I suppose it's possible he was speaking out of his *** without consulting Mad first.

But when a book's not being done in a professionally timely manner within the timeframe set by the contract the talent signed, Marvel is pretty screwed. They could fire Mad and get someone else. But then everyone who thought they were getting a Joe Mad book would be pissed. Or, they could release the book late and people like me will be pissed.

Either way, they're forced to make a choice they shouldn't have to by the unprofessional behavior of the late party.

There's no set number, like a page a week, it's completely relative to the assignment.
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I see what you see, Joe.
 
Re: Touching on the Ultimates with Jeph Loeb.

Joe Kalicki said:
Sorry I'm not clear, that's not entirely what I meant (but close). When you're hired to do a job with set deadlines it's professional to make them. If you know you need to do 22 pages in 30 days, that's what you need to do. If you know you can't do that, you take another job you can do. If it takes you a week to do a page, that's fine. Take a book that's released twice a year, or do fill-ins or covers.

That would be the professional thing to do.

I'm not saying Marvel's blameless, but I'm assuming they got promises from Mad about his speed on the books. I know Loeb promised it would be on time, I was at the panel when he did it. I suppose it's possible he was speaking out of his *** without consulting Mad first.

But when a book's not being done in a professionally timely manner within the timeframe set by the contract the talent signed, Marvel is pretty screwed. They could fire Mad and get someone else. But then everyone who thought they were getting a Joe Mad book would be pissed. Or, they could release the book late and people like me will be pissed.

Either way, they're forced to make a choice they shouldn't have to by the unprofessional behavior of the late party.

There's no set number, like a page a week, it's completely relative to the assignment.
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Again, until till we see the contract and the assignment we won't know for sure, and I'm hesitant to point fingers.

It's possible that the reason it's taking long is that Mad isn't happy with the script and is asking for rewrites, and they're not being done due to Loeb's efforts. It's possible the editors haven't signed off on the script for #3 yet.

There's far too many variables and far too little information for the blame to be placed anywhere or on anyone. Again, it seems the lack of professionalism is in the organisation of the projects, not the promises/assurances of certain people within the title.
 
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