Ultimate Comics Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

Ice

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So it all begins with Fury and Hawkeye talking in front of the Triskelion, as Hawkeye gives Fury word about helping capture a rogue Captain America. He found out about the Red Skull. The rest of the issue is a flash back telling what happened, which was a day earlier.

It's just Hawkeye and Cap fighting A.I.M. goons on two helicopters after they've stolen goods from the Baxter Building. This is where Red Skull gets introduced as he beats the **** out of Cap. I thinkt he intro with Red Skull could've been better, but not that it was bad. It just feels like there was no real "big" impact with him being shown.

But after he deals Cap a good one, he tells him something in the ear and throws him out the 'copter and Hawkeye (on the other helicopter) jumps to help cap. They land on the ground and Cap says Red Skull told him he was his son. End.

It was a good start and it's only going to get better from here. The art by Pacheco was outstanding. Beautiful. If anything, it's gonna be a great looking arc.
 
Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

I loved every friggin' second of it. So good. I am so happy with what Millar pulled off here. Yay Ultimates again!
 
Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

Millar needs to find news ways of introducing villains.

They always beat the crap out of the hero to make them seem sinister.
 
Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

Yeah, this was good, but it wasn't that good.

It was actually kind of boring since I already knew that Red Skull was Cap's son.

The art's pretty good. It looks messed up at certain parts though. Red Skull looks great.

I mean, obviously it's better than anything the Ultimate universe has put out in a few years, and I'm definitely going to get all the issues, but this issue wasn't superb.
 
Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

There wasn't much to this issue but it was a lot of fun. I don't think this title is going to be as intense as The Ultimates and that might be a good thing. It will be good to get 24 issues of laid back and relaxed Mark Millar for a change.

The best thing about this issue? Captain America and Hawkeye are being written properly again. :D
 
Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

Yeah, this was good, but it wasn't that good.

It was actually kind of boring since I already knew that Red Skull was Cap's son.

The art's pretty good. It looks messed up at certain parts though. Red Skull looks great.

I mean, obviously it's better than anything the Ultimate universe has put out in a few years, and I'm definitely going to get all the issues, but this issue wasn't superb.

Same here. I think the parts you were talking about where the art was messed up was the ones that showed Tony? I thought he looked weird...
Nice issue, nice art, fluid action scenes, the only real complaint I've got is that Tony behaving like a retarded alcoholic almost every issue is getting real old real fast :?
 
Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

I agree, Tony art was miserable.

Red Skull. I thought that was a brilliant, albeit way over used by Millar, introduction for the Red Skull. I wish Millar hadn't abused that introduction cause it worked well for Skull. I'm intrigued by him. How did he get stronger/faster than Cap? Where has he been all this time that SHEILD knew about him? How does he know that Cap's his daddy?

I'm very excited for where this is going.
 
Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

Okay, so I read Ultimates 3 for the first time today before reading Ultimate Avengers.

Ultimates 3 didn't ruin the characters for me... but only because it was so far removed from The Ultimates, I couldn't even internalize them as the same characters.

Ultimate Avengers felt like Ultimate Cap and so on, and for that I'm excited. The issue felt like a nice start to me. Just a start, but promising enough.

Also, Ultimate Hawkeye has to be the most 'superhuman' character that's not supposed to have any superpowers this side of Batman. Millar works hard to get him over as a total badass.
 
Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

What I liked: The art. Pacheco's art had a great "Hitch" vibe that made them feel like the Ultimates. Pacheco is kinda like Hitch+Sprouse, and I love all that jazz. Also, I loved Nick Fury, and Hawkeye - particularly Hawkeye saving Cap. I also think the idea of the entire fight sequence of the comic taking place between two helicopters is just super cool. I liked pretty much everything.

What I didn't like:
Millar needs to find news ways of introducing villains.

They always beat the crap out of the hero to make them seem sinister.

Really all it makes them is dicks.

This. See also Bendis' Mysterio debut for the "new villains beats up old villain" method of creating 'menace'. Red Skull shows up and hands Cap's shield to him. It is shamefully staged. The first Red Skull couldn't do it (he was Red Skull, let's face it), and Kaiser couldn't do it. In both cases, there was give and take. Here, Red Skull just pounds him because Millar wants him too. I love how he just chucks him out of the helicopter, but Cap should've been able to do something to the Red Skull (who looks more like Crossbones than Red Skull). Also, isn't Cap the one who routinely goes without a parachute? And then there's Tony Stake doing his typical Millar speak of, "Behold! My heart's desires! On my sleeeeeve!" His dialogue is just terrible. And the last thing? Hawkeye's costume. Millar has brought Hawkeye, within one issue, back from the grave, as a cool, exciting character, who's part daredevil and part professional and I love him. The costume is not only ugly, but it doesn't fit that his character would ever wear such a nonsensical get up. This is not Millar nor Pacheco's fault. This is Maduereira's fault, and I want Hawkeye out of that damned costume.

So, despite crappy Red Skull and Tony Stark, Millar and Pacheco did a bang up job on giving a small, well-paced, lil' action ride with Captain America and Hawkeye. Hopefully, this'll continue to be this fun or improve.
 
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Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

And the last thing? Hawkeye's costume. Millar has brought Hawkeye, within one issue, back from the grave, as a cool, exciting character, who's part daredevil and part professional and I love him. The costume is not only ugly, but it doesn't fit that his character would ever wear such a nonsensical get up. This is not Millar nor Pacheco's fault. This is Maduereira's fault, and I want Hawkeye out of that damned costume.

I agree completely. Hawkeye's short hair and old costume should come back, he looked way more badass :D
 
Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

My interest in this is going to depend on everybody else's level of enthusiasm, really. I'm *only* intrigued because it's Millar going back to the Ultimate characters he's written best. So whether or not I keep following will depend on how many other people I can geek out about this with.

I'll withhold any further judgment until after i've actually read the damn thing. But for now, I'm cautiously optimistic, based on everybody's initial feedback.
 
Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

I was mostly underwhelmed... By both the art and the story... I mean, it was good in a standard sort of way, but there wasn't really anything interesting about the way Millar handled anything. I expected more.
 
Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

Also, Ultimate Hawkeye has to be the most 'superhuman' character that's not supposed to have any superpowers this side of Batman. Millar works hard to get him over as a total badass.

except that in Ultimatum he states that he "went through the program" and has enhanced vision...literally 'hawkeyes' and that's why he never misses.

(sorry to remind you all of that)
 
Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

I wouldn't mind if Hawkeye kept the shaggy hair, gives him that care free look one would get after being taken from their loved ones. The mask is ****ing lame. He looks like that retard from wildcats.
 
Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

I'm wondering if reactions would be different if Millar didn't give away the story.
 
Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

I'm wondering if reactions would be different if Millar didn't give away the story.

Yeah, this whole time he's been all "This is what I'm going to do"

Now we have to watch him do it

I'm sure if he didn't blow his wad we'd all be better off
 
Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

I liked the issue. I think that Hawkeye will gradually return to the look that he had in the first 2 volumes of the Ultimates. Tony did seem very eccentric, but that is Tony. The art for the tony club sequence seemed to really pop. I also thought it was consistent.

I must disagree with all of the digs at the art. I think it is the middle point between Hitch and Mad. A hidden blessing with Mad is that everything between his and Hitch styles seem to fit.
 
Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

So, the art was pretty.I don't know where the digs are coming from. It was clean and fit the style of the story.

The story wasn't bad, but it was pretty standard action fare.

Yeah, this whole time he's been all "This is what I'm going to do"

Now we have to watch him do it

I'm sure if he didn't blow his wad we'd all be better off

I don't think it's just that. It's just.... so sparse of complications. You look at the denseness of, say, Matt Fraction's Iron Man or Bru's Captain America, and then you look at this new issue, and, well, it's a pretty point A to point B progression. We have a couple of pages of Hawkeye telling Fury about Cap going off the reservation, and then we see Cap go off the reservation. Even if he hadn't busted a nut on the convention circuit, I don't think it would change things overly much.
 

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