Ultimate Fantastic Four #26 discussion SPOILERS

[Ice]

I didn't think this was a bad issue by far. I also didn't think it was much good either. I can respect and appreciate Millar paying homage to the original FF comics through UFF, but there's a line which can also be crossed. I have always liked the UFF title's slightly more "out-there" and whacky storylines and concepts, as they are after all the Fantastic Four. However, sometimes these approaches can get too ridiculous (and did many times in the original 616 FF). Unfortunately Millar tries to be harkening back to that constant over-the-topness with this run on UFF too much in my opinion. While the UFF should certainly see some extremely weird and surreal storylines, I also think it should maintain just a bit more of a real-world setting the rest of the Ultimate universe is partially known for (though thats quickly slipping away). Therefore I thought the huge Japanimation 05 Robot that Reed built was a bit crazy, but no big deal...cuz after all he's built a teleportal machine, a dimension-hopping space-ship, a time machine, and the Fantasticar all in less than the first 25 issues, and those are only a few of his inventions...so its not that out there in terms of context or content, but I just think its too much too soon. But then, maybe it wouldn't be fantastic enough? Damn...the Ultimate Fantastic Four are like a writer's catch-22. Anyway, I'd like to see Millar focus on the characters a bit more than the huge, insane plot devices and whacked-out storyline. Now, those things should still be retained, as they're integral parts of any FF book, but I think a bit more character development would serve to back-up the fact that they're a "family", and I haven't seen that issue addressed really at all. Sure, Reed and Sue are close, and Ben and Johnny fight a lot, but how much else do we really know about their inter-personal relationships. How do Sue and Johnny get along now? Or how about Sue and Ben? What about Reed and Dr. Storm? I mean, Millar introduced a pretty interesting point of contention between Storm and Reed in Crossover, but by the next arc it seemed to have been forgotten. Thats all I'd like to see, more character development amongst the science and fantastic. That alone should help.

Anyway, I thought the issue was ok. I'll give it a 3/5.

Good way of putting it. Rating is definately fair, as well.

 

[fenway]

I have to agree that the 'family' focus is missing - that's one thing that should be brought from 616 to the 'Ulti-verse'.

Nice that 'Mom' was included here, but, again. I agree - let's get more interplay between who's already established too.

Still like these issues very much, though.

The first 3 arcs seemed TOO decompressed (to me)

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

but I think a bit more character development would serve to back-up the fact that they're a "family", and I haven't seen that issue addressed really at all. Sure, Reed and Sue are close, and Ben and Johnny fight a lot, but how much else do we really know about their inter-personal relationships. How do Sue and Johnny get along now? Or how about Sue and Ben? What about Reed and Dr. Storm? I mean, Millar introduced a pretty interesting point of contention between Storm and Reed in Crossover, but by the next arc it seemed to have been forgotten. Thats all I'd like to see, more character development amongst the science and fantastic. That alone should help.

Truth. I loved Ellis' take on their interactions within the group. The only thing Millar is focusing on is Sue and Reed. Also wasn't Millar's run supposed be character centered throughout each of the four stories? What happened to that? To be fair though Dr. Storm only laid off of Reed because the mother came back. I'm sure it will be brought up again especially when Reed screws with the timeline in President Thor... *Crosses Fingers* please don't let it suck.

 

[ProjectX2]

Truth. I loved Ellis' take on their interactions within the group. The only thing Millar is focusing on is Sue and Reed. Also wasn't Millar's run supposed be character centered throughout each of the four stories? What happened to that? To be fair though Dr. Storm only laid off of Reed because the mother came back. I'm sure it will be brought up again especially when Reed screws with the timeline in President Thor... *Crosses Fingers* please don't let it suck.

I wonder why he's been focusing on Reed and Sue? Probably because Crossover was supposed to focus on Reed and Tomb of Namor was supposed to focus on Sue. And what two arcs have we got? Crossover and Tomb of Namor. No wonder those two have been focused on!

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

I wonder why he's been focusing on Reed and Sue? Probably because Crossover was supposed to focus on Reed and Tomb of Namor was supposed to focus on Sue. And what two arcs have we got? Crossover and Tomb of Namor. No wonder those two have been focused on!

What I meant was the only relationship we've focused on was Reed and Sue. I'm aware Reed went to the Zombie-Verse and Sue was being obsessed over by Namor. But what I was expecting was actually some type of revealation to the characters or something interesting.

 

[E]

I didn't think this was a bad issue by far. I also didn't think it was much good either. I can respect and appreciate Millar paying homage to the original FF comics through UFF, but there's a line which can also be crossed. I have always liked the UFF title's slightly more "out-there" and whacky storylines and concepts, as they are after all the Fantastic Four. However, sometimes these approaches can get too ridiculous (and did many times in the original 616 FF). Unfortunately Millar tries to be harkening back to that constant over-the-topness with this run on UFF too much in my opinion.

I see it as almost a parody, and I like it for that.

 

[vader]

The problem with UFF is that it is a little too outlandish, don't get me wrong some of it is fine but, the Outlandishness that is so prominent in the UFF books is not in any other books so it disrupts the idea that this is the same Universe. Also instead of Reed creating a helmet that can project his thoughts how about finding a cure for a disease or trying to put his brain power towards a worthy cause then creating mini-mates and war machines.

 

[Ice]

The problem with UFF is that it is a little too outlandish, don't get me wrong some of it is fine but, the Outlandishness that is so prominent in the UFF books is not in any other books so it disrupts the idea that this is the same Universe. Also instead of Reed creating a helmet that can project his thoughts how about finding a cure for a disease or trying to put his brain power towards a worthy cause then creating mini-mates and war machines.

Soooo you want to see a story where Reed has to fight some tough *** villain, and his only weapon is.....THE CURE FOR CANCER!


Ok, seroiusly, yeah they could have him come up with a cure. But what would be the point? How would that create or be used in a story and be interesting? Not saying the idea is an iditioc or anything like that, don't get me wrong. Just don't see it happening.

 

[vader]

Soooo you want to see a story where Reed has to fight some tough *** villain, and his only weapon is.....THE CURE FOR CANCER!


Ok, seroiusly, yeah they could have him come up with a cure. But what would be the point? How would that create or be used in a story and be interesting? Not saying the idea is an iditioc or anything like that, don't get me wrong. Just don't see it happening.

Obviously that would not be a good idea for a comic book, "The Amazing Reed Richards:Watch him find the cure for cancer, as the rest of the UFF look on in puzzlement" but, isn't the Ulitimate universe supposed to be more realistic than the 616, i just think he could be using his time more productively.

 

[Ice]

Obviously that would not be a good idea for a comic book, "The Amazing Reed Richards:Watch him find the cure for cancer, as the rest of the UFF look on in puzzlement" but, isn't the Ulitimate universe supposed to be more realistic than the 616, i just think he could be using his time more productively.

But remember he's in the Think Tank. Working for the government. You know, the people who like to start wars for whatever reason they find? You really think they would want Reed to be curing cancer? Hell no. That's not what they're there for. Could Reed do it in his spare time? Yeah. But again, how would that prove useful in a story?

 

[Bass]

Here's a ****ing great story for you.

Reed discovers the cure for cancer/AIDS/fill in your own disease. It's a cure in theory. He needs to make it but that will cost a lot of money. He asks the military government for the cash but they're not a pharmeceutical company and are only interested in weapons. Reed wants to go to a company to fund the cure, but making the cure a reality will take all of Reed's time. The military refuse as they want Reed working on their super weapons.

It writes itself.

 

[Ice]

Here's a ****ing great story for you.

Reed discovers the cure for cancer/AIDS/fill in your own disease. It's a cure in theory. He needs to make it but that will cost a lot of money. He asks the military government for the cash but they're not a pharmeceutical company and are only interested in weapons. Reed wants to go to a company to fund the cure, but making the cure a reality will take all of Reed's time. The military refuse as they want Reed working on their super weapons.

It writes itself.

I can't tell if you are being serious or not...:?


Damn you, Bass.

 

[Bass]

I'm being very serious.

It would be best set before the F4 went public. It would be a very powerful story, when you consider how Ben, Sue, and Johnny would react; Johnny doesn't care at all; Sue defends the military as her dad works for them; Ben is upset Reed is spending his time curing strangers rather than himself, his friend and the guy he ****ed up.

It would rock.

 

[Ice]

I'm being very serious.

It would be best set before the F4 went public. It would be a very powerful story, when you consider how Ben, Sue, and Johnny would react; Johnny doesn't care at all; Sue defends the military as her dad works for them; Ben is upset Reed is spending his time curing strangers rather than himself, his friend and the guy he ****ed up.

It would rock.

Ok. Cuz I didnt mean that a story couldnt be made up, but it's not easy to just have one be centered around that, and turn out to be good. But your idea, it could work for sure.

 

[Bass]

Three-issue arc, tops. You could probably get it done in less though.

But it would just be the moral and ethical implications. How far will Reed go to cure AIDS/cancer/what-have-you and how far will the military go to keep their stranglehold on Reed?

 

[vader]

That story sounds much better than the outlandish, huge tidal wave in the shape of Posseidon or Neptune or whatever it was supposed to be about to take out New York City and then it was all resolved with a kiss. Give me Moral dilemma putting co-workers and friends against one another over tidal waves poised to strike New York city, not hitting because of raging hormones any day of the week.

 

[Goodwill]

You speak the truth, Vader. Thank you.

 

[Patriot Mk2]

I don't care what Millar said it would be like. I don't go for the whole "Well, he warned us. So that makes it ok." I know the Fantastic Four should be a little more unrealistic than the other ultimate titles. I've even defended that when people complained about the N-Zone arc but Millar is taking it way too far. If Card had said I'm just gonna have some fun with these characters, would that make it ok?

First of all,thats not what I said. Warned implied something bad, which I don't think his run is. The man told us explicitly what the run and stories would be like, all the fanboys got excited, and now that its exactly like he said it would be you don't like it and are picking the thing apart it minute detail&*****ing about it. If you don't like something, don't buy it. Paying for something you don't like or want, month after month, is nothing short of stupidity. Actually its ****ing retarded. Then to come on here and ***** about it?!?!?Wtf man?!?I like it, I buy it. I didnt like Ellis', I didn't buy it. What age are you? Grow up and get over the "Gotta Catch 'Em All" fanboy complex.

And how the hell does Card come into it?

 

[E]

First of all,thats not what I said. Warned implied something bad, which I don't think his run is. The man told us explicitly what the run and stories would be like, all the fanboys got excited, and now that its exactly like he said it would be you don't like it and are picking the thing apart it minute detail&*****ing about it. If you don't like something, don't buy it. Paying for something you don't like or want, month after month, is nothing short of stupidity. Actually its ****ing retarded. Then to come on here and ***** about it?!?!?Wtf man?!?I like it, I buy it. I didnt like Ellis', I didn't buy it. What age are you? Grow up and get over the "Gotta Catch 'Em All" fanboy complex.

And how the hell does Card come into it?

Sorry, MwoF - he has a point.

(even though I bought all the Card issues and *****ed about them)

 

[cmdrjanjalani]

That story sounds much better than the outlandish, huge tidal wave in the shape of Posseidon or Neptune or whatever it was supposed to be about to take out New York City and then it was all resolved with a kiss. Give me Moral dilemma putting co-workers and friends against one another over tidal waves poised to strike New York city, not hitting because of raging hormones any day of the week.

The kiss was a cop-out, but showing Namor had powers over water makes him even more different from his 616 version (unless I'm mistaken since I don't recall him having powers like that). It also shows us what, or more specifically who sank Atlantis.

 

[Ice]

showing Namor had powers over water makes him even more different from his 616 version (unless I'm mistaken since I don't recall him having powers like that). It also shows us what, or more specifically who sank Atlantis.

Never seen him do that, or he would've done that to take Sue away from Reed.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

First of all,thats not what I said. Warned implied something bad, which I don't think his run is. The man told us explicitly what the run and stories would be like, all the fanboys got excited, and now that its exactly like he said it would be you don't like it and are picking the thing apart it minute detail&*****ing about it. If you don't like something, don't buy it. Paying for something you don't like or want, month after month, is nothing short of stupidity. Actually its ****ing retarded. Then to come on here and ***** about it?!?!?Wtf man?!?I like it, I buy it. I didnt like Ellis', I didn't buy it. What age are you? Grow up and get over the "Gotta Catch 'Em All" fanboy complex.

And how the hell does Card come into it?

Relax. It wasn't a response to you. It was a response to Millar "warning us". I buy Ultimate Titles for the same reason most of us buy all ultimate titles. So raggin' on me about "gotta catch 'em all" (?) is/should be offensive to half of this site....

That's great you feel so strongly about it though... *thumbs up*

 

[vader]

The kiss was a cop-out, but showing Namor had powers over water makes him even more different from his 616 version (unless I'm mistaken since I don't recall him having powers like that). It also shows us what, or more specifically who sank Atlantis.

Even so, don't you think that because he can do that,and he can pose and immediate threat to America that he would be considered not simply just a UFF baddie but a power that has to be stopped. By the fantastic four, or the ultimates or whoever. The Kiss was a weak way to end the whole battle scene

 

[Terraneaux]

If part of the ultimate universe is to consider the implications of what super-powered beings would imply in the real world, at least in a hollywood/action movie kind of way, then the fantastic four need a bit of a changeup.

I guess i really hate the "i have superpowers, therefore i must wear colored tights and fight crime" stereotype, as much respect and love i have for the long tradition of comics conventions (as in the things that are sort of expected to happen in a comic book, not big real-world get togethers about comics).

I definitely have an appreciation for 616 ff; i love the crazy enemies (galactus!), i love the way that it makes no sense scientifically, i love the scientist/cosmic adventurer archetype that reed portrays, etc.

But i think the whole point of ultimates is that it is different in some way. In the Wolverine title recently, there was talk about reed's terraformer device and how it would solve africa's food problems etc. I know we're never gonna hear from it again because it would solve some of the problems of the world. Now, frankly, if i had the cosmic power that reed had (and i do mean cosmic, the guy is running a miniature universe on his computer), and i had morals like reed had, i would probably give some thought to curing diseases/world hunger/what have you. The problem with this of course is that you run the risk of having your world diverge too much from real life and thus be something that readers can't relate to. However, if you ask me, it's way overdue. It may be kind of surreal to say "there's no cancer in the uu because reed cured it," but i think it would go a long way towards making the ultimate universe more 'real' in the sense that it is logical that one of these scientist bigwig types who is doing science at a level so beyond what we have in rl would figure it out.

p.s.: i just had the weirdest brain fart: if the uu is supposed to be noticeably different from 616, has ultimate northstar been shown at all and does anyone else think it would be kind of funny if he was straight?

 

[RUFUS!]

Even so, don't you think that because he can do that,and he can pose and immediate threat to America that he would be considered not simply just a UFF baddie but a power that has to be stopped. By the fantastic four, or the ultimates or whoever. The Kiss was a weak way to end the whole battle scene

yeah i figured it was a huge cop-out...he went from furious to calm & collected in about 3 minutes

 

[Bass]

The Kiss was a weak way to end the whole battle scene

In stories, an element of design is called "progressive complications" - the basic idea is that as the story progresses, the characters try to get whatever it is they are after, and as they do so, things keep popping up making it harder for them to get it, forcing them to take greater and greater risks in order to get what they want. These are always meant to be points of no return. Unconsciously, we the audience, know that when the characters try something and it doesn't work, they can't go back to that attempt (or something of even lesser risk) because we know it won't work.

In UF#26's case, the Fantastic Four want to take down Namor. We already know the whole, "Sue and Namor" love triangle was what started the mess, and the battle builds and builds to the powerful climax of Reed using his mind-machine, and the Torch/ force field combo, then Namor threatening to flood Manhattan. Then Millar backpeddles and has the kiss. The thing is, the kiss has so little risk attached to it, we feel it shouldn't succeed in defeating Namor. It's unsatisfactory. Now, if Namor requested 'a night' with Sue, or even have her as his bride - well, now we're cooking. As it is, Namor looks like the petulant child and the battle seems needlessly gratuitous.

What sold it at all was Land's drawing of Namor when he says "She meant it".

(I probably explained this badly. Meh.)

Now, frankly, if i had the cosmic power that reed had (and i do mean cosmic, the guy is running a miniature universe on his computer), and i had morals like reed had, i would probably give some thought to curing diseases/world hunger/what have you. The problem with this of course is that you run the risk of having your world diverge too much from real life and thus be something that readers can't relate to. However, if you ask me, it's way overdue. It may be kind of surreal to say "there's no cancer in the uu because reed cured it," but i think it would go a long way towards making the ultimate universe more 'real' in the sense that it is logical that one of these scientist bigwig types who is doing science at a level so beyond what we have in rl would figure it out.

Realism is different to Actualism. Actualism is making your fictional world appear more like the world we experience every day. Realism is creating an internally consistent world that has its own set of physics, laws, rituals, and rules and keeps to them. So Reed curing cancer would be Realistic, but it would not be Actualistic. And Realism is much more important.

Also, I posted just somewhere about how I think a "cure for AIDS" story would be absolutely brilliant. To reiterate quickly - Reed works out a cure, but he needs funding to make it work. The military in charge of the think tank say 'No' because they are only interested in weapons. Reed seeks outside funding, but the think tank say 'No' because it will take too much of Reed's time and they want him to build weapons. So now you have Reed trying to develop a cure while the largest military in the history of the world forecfully keeps a stranglehold on his time and ideas. Then you've got the reactions of the other three F4ers when they discover a cure is possible. Johnny, most likely, doesn't care that much beyond the "a cure is good" - he won't go out on a limb about it. Sue, would probably defend the military because her dad works for them and she's grown up with them, driving a wedge between her and Reed. Ben, would become all depressed as he would be upset Reed is fighting so hard to cure strangers while Ben, Reed's friend whom Reed turned into a monster, is still stuck as the Thing. I think it would work.

p.s.: i just had the weirdest brain fart: if the uu is supposed to be noticeably different from 616, has ultimate northstar been shown at all and does anyone else think it would be kind of funny if he was straight?

He is in Ultimate X-Men and it seems, is dating Colossus. So he's either gay, or working for Mister Sinister in some kind of bizarre 'Crying Game' master plan.

 

[ProjectX2]

I enjoyed it. I don't think there should have been the Fantastic Oh-Five. Having the helmet was good enough. I hope we see more of Namor soon.

 

[thee great one]

I'm highly enjoying Millar's run. I'm loving his ideas and Land's art. Namor is one of the strongest beings in 616. I had no problem with his power level. The Fantastic Oh-Five was cool. I like the reactions to the giant half naked woman. Namor has no reason to kill the human race. If you remember he considers them like animals. Would you kill a dog for biting you. Sue is the only person he deems worthy of his attention. She doesn't sound or smell like the others as he stated lsat issue.


B+

 

[vader]

Namor has no reason to kill the human race. If you remember he considers them like animals. Would you kill a dog for biting you.
B+

Dogs get killed... ehem... put to sleep everyday for biting people. Especially if they bite a child and are deemed unfit to be around people. Plus i think that if Namor took out New York city or attempted to then he would not care too much. He has the rest of the world as his "playground"

 

[Goodwill]

Namor has turned himself into a villain... No matter how you look at it. Whether he wants to kill humans or not, he's selfish and dangerous - two things that, when combined, makes a very stressful situation for anyone involved. Whether Namor means harm to people or not, when he comes back around, you better bet your *** the Fantastic Four will try to put him down.