Ultimate Fantastic Four #26 discussion SPOILERS

Ice

Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
cmdrjanjalani said:
showing Namor had powers over water makes him even more different from his 616 version (unless I'm mistaken since I don't recall him having powers like that). It also shows us what, or more specifically who sank Atlantis.
Never seen him do that, or he would've done that to take Sue away from Reed.
 

TheManWithoutFear

#1 reason not to join UC
Patriot Mk2 said:
First of all,thats not what I said. Warned implied something bad, which I don't think his run is. The man told us explicitly what the run and stories would be like, all the fanboys got excited, and now that its exactly like he said it would be you don't like it and are picking the thing apart it minute detail&*****ing about it. If you don't like something, don't buy it. Paying for something you don't like or want, month after month, is nothing short of stupidity. Actually its ****ing retarded. Then to come on here and ***** about it?!?!?Wtf man?!?I like it, I buy it. I didnt like Ellis', I didn't buy it. What age are you? Grow up and get over the "Gotta Catch 'Em All" fanboy complex.

And how the hell does Card come into it?
Relax. It wasn't a response to you. It was a response to Millar "warning us". I buy Ultimate Titles for the same reason most of us buy all ultimate titles. So raggin' on me about "gotta catch 'em all" (?) is/should be offensive to half of this site....

That's great you feel so strongly about it though... *thumbs up*
 
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vader

Well-Known Member
cmdrjanjalani said:
The kiss was a cop-out, but showing Namor had powers over water makes him even more different from his 616 version (unless I'm mistaken since I don't recall him having powers like that). It also shows us what, or more specifically who sank Atlantis.

Even so, don't you think that because he can do that,and he can pose and immediate threat to America that he would be considered not simply just a UFF baddie but a power that has to be stopped. By the fantastic four, or the ultimates or whoever. The Kiss was a weak way to end the whole battle scene
 

Terraneaux

Active Member
If part of the ultimate universe is to consider the implications of what super-powered beings would imply in the real world, at least in a hollywood/action movie kind of way, then the fantastic four need a bit of a changeup.

I guess i really hate the "i have superpowers, therefore i must wear colored tights and fight crime" stereotype, as much respect and love i have for the long tradition of comics conventions (as in the things that are sort of expected to happen in a comic book, not big real-world get togethers about comics).

I definitely have an appreciation for 616 ff; i love the crazy enemies (galactus!), i love the way that it makes no sense scientifically, i love the scientist/cosmic adventurer archetype that reed portrays, etc.

But i think the whole point of ultimates is that it is different in some way. In the Wolverine title recently, there was talk about reed's terraformer device and how it would solve africa's food problems etc. I know we're never gonna hear from it again because it would solve some of the problems of the world. Now, frankly, if i had the cosmic power that reed had (and i do mean cosmic, the guy is running a miniature universe on his computer), and i had morals like reed had, i would probably give some thought to curing diseases/world hunger/what have you. The problem with this of course is that you run the risk of having your world diverge too much from real life and thus be something that readers can't relate to. However, if you ask me, it's way overdue. It may be kind of surreal to say "there's no cancer in the uu because reed cured it," but i think it would go a long way towards making the ultimate universe more 'real' in the sense that it is logical that one of these scientist bigwig types who is doing science at a level so beyond what we have in rl would figure it out.

p.s.: i just had the weirdest brain fart: if the uu is supposed to be noticeably different from 616, has ultimate northstar been shown at all and does anyone else think it would be kind of funny if he was straight?
 

RUFUS!

Well-Known Member
Even so, don't you think that because he can do that,and he can pose and immediate threat to America that he would be considered not simply just a UFF baddie but a power that has to be stopped. By the fantastic four, or the ultimates or whoever. The Kiss was a weak way to end the whole battle scene
yeah i figured it was a huge cop-out...he went from furious to calm & collected in about 3 minutes
 

Bass

Nexus of the World
vader said:
The Kiss was a weak way to end the whole battle scene

In stories, an element of design is called "progressive complications" - the basic idea is that as the story progresses, the characters try to get whatever it is they are after, and as they do so, things keep popping up making it harder for them to get it, forcing them to take greater and greater risks in order to get what they want. These are always meant to be points of no return. Unconsciously, we the audience, know that when the characters try something and it doesn't work, they can't go back to that attempt (or something of even lesser risk) because we know it won't work.

In UF#26's case, the Fantastic Four want to take down Namor. We already know the whole, "Sue and Namor" love triangle was what started the mess, and the battle builds and builds to the powerful climax of Reed using his mind-machine, and the Torch/ force field combo, then Namor threatening to flood Manhattan. Then Millar backpeddles and has the kiss. The thing is, the kiss has so little risk attached to it, we feel it shouldn't succeed in defeating Namor. It's unsatisfactory. Now, if Namor requested 'a night' with Sue, or even have her as his bride - well, now we're cooking. As it is, Namor looks like the petulant child and the battle seems needlessly gratuitous.

What sold it at all was Land's drawing of Namor when he says "She meant it".

(I probably explained this badly. Meh.)

Terraneaux said:
Now, frankly, if i had the cosmic power that reed had (and i do mean cosmic, the guy is running a miniature universe on his computer), and i had morals like reed had, i would probably give some thought to curing diseases/world hunger/what have you. The problem with this of course is that you run the risk of having your world diverge too much from real life and thus be something that readers can't relate to. However, if you ask me, it's way overdue. It may be kind of surreal to say "there's no cancer in the uu because reed cured it," but i think it would go a long way towards making the ultimate universe more 'real' in the sense that it is logical that one of these scientist bigwig types who is doing science at a level so beyond what we have in rl would figure it out.

Realism is different to Actualism. Actualism is making your fictional world appear more like the world we experience every day. Realism is creating an internally consistent world that has its own set of physics, laws, rituals, and rules and keeps to them. So Reed curing cancer would be Realistic, but it would not be Actualistic. And Realism is much more important.

Also, I posted just somewhere about how I think a "cure for AIDS" story would be absolutely brilliant. To reiterate quickly - Reed works out a cure, but he needs funding to make it work. The military in charge of the think tank say 'No' because they are only interested in weapons. Reed seeks outside funding, but the think tank say 'No' because it will take too much of Reed's time and they want him to build weapons. So now you have Reed trying to develop a cure while the largest military in the history of the world forecfully keeps a stranglehold on his time and ideas. Then you've got the reactions of the other three F4ers when they discover a cure is possible. Johnny, most likely, doesn't care that much beyond the "a cure is good" - he won't go out on a limb about it. Sue, would probably defend the military because her dad works for them and she's grown up with them, driving a wedge between her and Reed. Ben, would become all depressed as he would be upset Reed is fighting so hard to cure strangers while Ben, Reed's friend whom Reed turned into a monster, is still stuck as the Thing. I think it would work.

Terraneaux said:
p.s.: i just had the weirdest brain fart: if the uu is supposed to be noticeably different from 616, has ultimate northstar been shown at all and does anyone else think it would be kind of funny if he was straight?

He is in Ultimate X-Men and it seems, is dating Colossus. So he's either gay, or working for Mister Sinister in some kind of bizarre 'Crying Game' master plan.
 
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ProjectX2

Don't expect me to take you with me when I go to s
I enjoyed it. I don't think there should have been the Fantastic Oh-Five. Having the helmet was good enough. I hope we see more of Namor soon.
 

thee great one

Master of TOG-fu.
I'm highly enjoying Millar's run. I'm loving his ideas and Land's art. Namor is one of the strongest beings in 616. I had no problem with his power level. The Fantastic Oh-Five was cool. I like the reactions to the giant half naked woman. Namor has no reason to kill the human race. If you remember he considers them like animals. Would you kill a dog for biting you. Sue is the only person he deems worthy of his attention. She doesn't sound or smell like the others as he stated lsat issue.


B+
 

vader

Well-Known Member
thee great one said:
Namor has no reason to kill the human race. If you remember he considers them like animals. Would you kill a dog for biting you.
B+

Dogs get killed... ehem... put to sleep everyday for biting people. Especially if they bite a child and are deemed unfit to be around people. Plus i think that if Namor took out New York city or attempted to then he would not care too much. He has the rest of the world as his "playground"
 

Goodwill

Well-Known Member
Namor has turned himself into a villain... No matter how you look at it. Whether he wants to kill humans or not, he's selfish and dangerous - two things that, when combined, makes a very stressful situation for anyone involved. Whether Namor means harm to people or not, when he comes back around, you better bet your *** the Fantastic Four will try to put him down.
 

TheManWithoutFear

#1 reason not to join UC
I'm not labeling him a "villain" yet. He's stuck up and selfish. He's still a big ? in my book. I want to know why he was a prisoner of Atlantis, what his motivations will be in Ultimate Invasion
 

Goodwill

Well-Known Member
Well, that's just it. Namor can be taken any way after Millar's run. Millar doesn't exactly define character...
 

Goodwill

Well-Known Member
It actually sounds like a decent enough idea, too. Inhumans, Namor... Perhaps even Doom. Cool, right?
 

ourchair

Well-Known Member
Ultimate Fantastic Four 26 was the stupidest thing I've read since David Mack's Vision Quest in Daredevil a couple years back.

The only high point of this story arc was the freaking Minimates. Oh and the forty-foot tall half-naked Mrs. Storm.

I hate to be mister 'I can write bettern than this' but I think the idea Compound and I had for Namor was much better.

I, doody-headed FF fan, am SERIOUSLY considering dropping this book and leaving to collect the rest of it in the 3 for P100 ($2) bargain bin. It's THAT bad.
 
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Bass

Nexus of the World
Please elaborate? :please:

Coming from a self-proclaimed F4 doody-head, I gotta hear more.
 
K

Korinthian

Guest
but showing Namor had powers over water makes him even more different from his 616 version

And how many percent of the human body is water again?
 

Bass

Nexus of the World
80% or so. Roughly the same percentage as the amount of water that covers the surface of the Earth.
 

Ice

Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
Bass said:
80% or so. Roughly the same percentage as the amount of water that covers the surface of the Earth.
I thought it was like, 70% for humans, and 72% for the earth? But what connection is that for Namor?
 

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