Ultimate Revamps: Which Ones Worked and Which Ones Didn't

[The Overlord]

The Ultimate Universe has revamped many 616 characters over the years. Which revamps have worked and which ones haven't?

Edit: Please ignore the typo in the title, could the mods please fix it.

 

[Gemini]

Re: Ultimare Revamps: Which Ones Worked and Which Ones Didn't

The Ultimate Universe has revamped many 616 characters over the years. Which revamps have worked and which ones haven't?

the bulk have them have worked well, the only one that has'nt really worked out is deadpool

but i think captain mar-vehl was the best ultimization

 

[Lynx]

Re: Ultimare Revamps: Which Ones Worked and Which Ones Didn't

the bulk have them have worked well, the only one that has'nt really worked out is deadpool

but i think captain mar-vehl was the best ultimization

I certainly agree with Captain Marvel. Wonderful ultimitization. Other notables are Cap, Thor, Hawkeye, Mojo, Sinister, Longshot, Silver Surfer, the Frightful Four and Doom (Specifically, his second appearance). I'd say Apocalypse, too, but, to be honest, we don't know his whole story yet.

Deadpool was absolutely horrid. Also, very recently, Demogoblin. I also was very disappointed with Omega Red, Carnage, Morbius and Vision. Gah Lak Tus and Hobgoblin were good ideas that I felt were just presented badly. Perhaps because neither of them really turned out to be much of a threat.

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

Re: Ultimare Revamps: Which Ones Worked and Which Ones Didn't

Worked Best:
- Longshot
- Mojo
- Thor
- Shocker (Best Running Gag Ever)
- Wolverine (particularly in Millar's Ultimate X-Men)
- Electro
- Captain Mahr-Vell
- Nick Fury
- Dr. Doom
- The Mole Man
- Tony Stark (in The Ultimates)
- Captain America
- Psylocke, Agent of STRIKE
- Doctor Strange, Jr.

Not Worked
- Deadpool
- Tony Stark (in Ultimate Iron Man)
- Luke Cage, Power Man (He deserves to be more than just a punchline)
- Hobgoblin (waste of a good character, simultaneously pulling out one of the series better supporting characters)
- Demogoblin (see Ultimate Spidey #101 discussion thread for more details)
- Northstar (Long hair? Puh-lease... He still has potential though... I'm holding out for more screen time as he continues to date Colossus)

 

[Ice]

Re: Ultimare Revamps: Which Ones Worked and Which Ones Didn't

Worked Best:
- Longshot
- Mojo
- Thor
- Shocker (Best Running Gag Ever)
- Wolverine (particularly in Millar's Ultimate X-Men)
- Electro
- Captain Mahr-Vell
- Nick Fury
- Dr. Doom
- The Mole Man
- Tony Stark (in The Ultimates)
- Captain America
- Psylocke, Agent of STRIKE
- Doctor Strange, Jr.

Not Worked

Agreed on all.

- Northstar (Long hair? Puh-lease... He still has potential though... I'm holding out for more screen time as he continues to date Colossus)

I don't see him as a bad one. I don't mind him so far in the UU. Hate him in 616.

 

[E]

Re: Ultimare Revamps: Which Ones Worked and Which Ones Didn't

Good:
- Thor (which will be ruined if/when they start exploring Ultimate Asgard)
- Captain America
- Falcon
- Captain Marvel
- Galactus
- Venom (much better than a stupid alien symboite)
- Mr. Sinister
- Mojo
- Fenris Twins

Crap:
- Punisher (completely ruined)
- Deadpool
- Carnage
- Toad
- Sentinels
- Multiple Man
- Daredevil (such a shame)

 

[Ice]

Re: Ultimare Revamps: Which Ones Worked and Which Ones Didn't

Good:
- Thor (which will be ruined if/when they start exploring Ultimate Asgard)

And if/when Asgard would be the 'real' Asgard.

Ah yes- and Venom and Carnage were craptastic revamps. Worst ever IMO.

 

[Lynx]

Re: Ultimare Revamps: Which Ones Worked and Which Ones Didn't

Worked Best:
- Nick Fury
- Tony Stark (in The Ultimates)


Not Worked
- Tony Stark (in Ultimate Iron Man)

I can't believe I forgot Fury. Easily one of the best ultimitizations. And I like how you separated Stark. While I think, generally, Stark in the Ultimates isn't all that different from his 616 counterpart (Barring recent events, of course), I will certainly agree that his character was completely ruined in Ultimate Iron Man.

And if/when Asgard would be the 'real' Asgard.

Ah yes- and Venom and Carnage were craptastic revamps. Worst ever IMO.

Carnage, yes. Venom, no. I like how Venom was a project of Richard Parker and Eddie Brock, Sr. It makes it more personal for both Peter and Eddie, Jr. Actually, on Carnage, I may hold out judgment until the Clone Saga ends. To be honest, with Carnage being a failed clone in his arc and Carnage being what appears to be a symbiote in both the game and the Clone Saga, I'm still unsure what exactly Carnage is.

 

[McCheese]

Re: Ultimare Revamps: Which Ones Worked and Which Ones Didn't

The Good:
-Thor
-Captain America
-Iron Man (in Ultimates)
-Hawkeye
-Quicksilver
-Scarlet Witch
-Captain Marvel
-Longshot
-Venom
-Mr. Sinister
-Electro
-Toad
-Mary Jane (pre-Demogoblin)
-Colossus
-Cyclops
-Wolverine (before he mysteriously shrunk and stopped being a bastard)
-Dazzler
-Nick Fury
-Sue Storm
-Reed Richards
-Namor
-Kraven
-Hulk
-Giant Man

The Bad:
-Punisher
-Omega Red
-Carnage
-Demogoblin
-Hobgoblin
-Vulture
-Scorpion
-I'm sick of listing them. Every good character Bendis wasted as a throwaway villain.
-Sabertooth
-Vision

The Ugly:
-Deadpool (Such a ****ing waste)

 

[The Overlord]

Re: Ultimare Revamps: Which Ones Worked and Which Ones Didn't

I don't see why everyone thinks Dr. Doom was such a good revamp, at first he was just a goober with goat legs and poison burbs and then made him into a clone of the 616 Doom (that's likely for the best, its hard to improve on a great character like Dr. Doom.) Frankly I have been unimpressed with most the villain revamps, Magneto went from a tragic character to a one dimensional psychopath, who is evil for evil's sake and I don't see Norman why transforming into a goblin is more realstic than him just being insane and wearing a costume.

The only villain revamps I have really liked are ones BKV has done like Ultimate Sinister and Ultimate Mojo. I don't think they are trying hard enough with the villain revamps, instead spending all this time trying revamp the A-List villains from the 616 MU, why not take a villain who is kinda lame in 616 MU and rework their backstory to make them more tragic or just give them a better motive. I feel the Ultimate Universe has a lack of tragic villains, seems like a lot of the villains are A-holes with no real motive. Like how Bruce Timm revamped Mr. Freeze in BTAS, that was a million times better than any Ultimate villain revamp. Seriously some characters like Deadpool do not need to be revamped, but tons of other characters do need to be revamped, those are the ones that should get the focus.

Heroes have fared much better in the revamp department. I like Ultimate cap, Ultimate Nick Fury and Ultimate Thor. I think they done the right balance taking what works from the 616 universe while retooling some elements to make them fit better in the Ultimate Universe.

 

[Gemini]

Re: Ultimare Revamps: Which Ones Worked and Which Ones Didn't

The Ugly:
-Deadpool (Such a ****ing waste)

but you got to give bendis a hand it takes skill to be the only person in history who has managed to destroy deadpool before this people thought deadpool was undestroyable but bendis stuck it out and shat out a craptacular version of deadpool

 

[Lynx]

Re: Ultimare Revamps: Which Ones Worked and Which Ones Didn't

I don't see why everyone thinks Dr. Doom was such a good revamp, at first he was just a goober with goat legs and poison burbs and then made him into a clone of the 616 Doom (that's likely for the best, its hard to improve on a great character like Dr. Doom.) Frankly I have been unimpressed with most the villain revamps, Magneto went from a tragic character to a one dimensional psychopath, who is evil for evil's sake and I don't see Norman why transforming into a goblin is more realstic than him just being insane and wearing a costume.

Doom's character in Millar's run proved that he simply wanted to outdo Reed without being truly villainous. It's better than him talking in thrid-person and simply doing evil things because he's a dictator. Also, the fact that he's more powerful than Thor is truly awesome.

As for Magneto, he's the best type of villain. Yes, he's a psychpath, but one-dimensional? He's like the mutant version of Hitler. He wants to create a master race and has shown that, when it comes to mutants (Other than his son), he IS sympathetic.

And Norman running around in a Halloween costume was lame, I'm sorry. The visual transformation made him much more menacing, and it fit the story of failed Super Soldier formulas transforming their victims into monsters. If Banner transforms into the Hulk due to a formula, Norman should too.

 

[Hibiki]

Re: Ultimare Revamps: Which Ones Worked and Which Ones Didn't

but you got to give bendis a hand it takes skill to be the only person in history who has managed to destroy deadpool before this people thought deadpool was undestroyable but bendis stuck it out and shat out a craptacular version of deadpool

Watch out, he might give you a lesson in writing.

 

[Gemini]

Re: Ultimare Revamps: Which Ones Worked and Which Ones Didn't

Watch out, he might give you a lesson in writing.

i know how to write a horrible cliff hanger that barely makes anysense i don't think his lesson will help much

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

Re: Ultimare Revamps: Which Ones Worked and Which Ones Didn't

I don't see him as a bad one. I don't mind him so far in the UU. Hate him in 616.

As a gay reader its less that he's a disapointment and more that he's not living up to what he could be as a character... Also: his costume SUCKS over in Emma Frost-Land. He needs to join the X-Men, STAT.

As I said, its not so much a poor ultimatization, its more just poor characterization since a strong introduction.

 

[The Overlord]

Re: Ultimare Revamps: Which Ones Worked and Which Ones Didn't

Doom's character in Millar's run proved that he simply wanted to outdo Reed without being truly villainous. It's better than him talking in thrid-person and simply doing evil things because he's a dictator. Also, the fact that he's more powerful than Thor is truly awesome.

As for Magneto, he's the best type of villain. Yes, he's a psychpath, but one-dimensional? He's like the mutant version of Hitler. He wants to create a master race and has shown that, when it comes to mutants (Other than his son), he IS sympathetic.

And Norman running around in a Halloween costume was lame, I'm sorry. The visual transformation made him much more menacing, and it fit the story of failed Super Soldier formulas transforming their victims into monsters. If Banner transforms into the Hulk due to a formula, Norman should too.

Why is Magneto the mutant version of Hitler, what made him that way? Has that ever been answered. At least Hitler had some factors that lead him to his path. His realationship with his abusive Jewish grandfather, his failure in his professional life as a would be painter and the anger he and many other Germans felt over WWI. Magneto has none of that, he just seems be a mean hateful bastard for the sake of it, with no real motive or explanation. He's boring.


Ah, tons of people in the Ultimate Universe are more powerul then Thor (Colossus) I don't see how that is impresive. Ultimate Thor is real weakling sometimes. Besides at least 616 Doom has an explation for his motives, with his mother being trapped in hell, his father killed before his eyes as young boy and having his face ruined, is it any wonder he's so messed up? What's Ultimate Doom's motive?

Norman is crazy, crazy people do a lot of illogical things, why wouldn't a crazy person wear a costume. Besides Ultimate Goblin is nothing more then the poor man's Hulk IMO, he lacks any flare or personality in his tranformed state. Norman as human seems far more scarey then the Goblin.

Again I don't see why the writers have a problem with taking characters who are kinda lame in the 616 universe and expanding or retooling their backstories to make them more tragic or give them a better motive. That's better than taking characters who do not need revamps like deadpool and trying to revamp them anyway.

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

Re: Ultimare Revamps: Which Ones Worked and Which Ones Didn't

The way I see Northstar is that he's a minor character, so that doesn't leave a lot of room for development. I'm curious what you think of Colossus, though.

Colossus needs more development too... but a lot of his development is implied having grown up in such violent circumstances as a stooge of the Russian Mafia.

I would like to see them BOTH developed by showing how they interact on a date... Im not expecting an arc or anything, but I was hoping "Date Night" would actually show us a real Date... Just a subplot in an issue or two...

Also: There's a lot of potential with his crazy sister and the fact that the two of them are more powerful together than apart in 616.

 

[Lynx]

Re: Ultimare Revamps: Which Ones Worked and Which Ones Didn't

Why is Magneto the mutant version of Hitler, what made him that way? Has that ever been answered. At least Hitler had some factors that lead him to his path. His realationship with his abusive Jewish grandfather, his failure in his professional life as a would be painter and the anger he and many other Germans felt over WWI. Magneto has none of that, he just seems be a mean hateful bastard for the sake of it, with no real motive or explanation. He's boring.

The fact that he's lived through two periods of persecution doesn't tell you why he's a hateful bastard? He's a Jew and he's a Mutant. He lived through Hitler's Consentration Camps and a period of heavy persecution of mutants. He's got a lot to be resentful for.

Ah, tons of people in the Ultimate Universe are more powerul then Thor (Colossus) I don't see how that is impresive. Ultimate Thor is real weakling sometimes. Besides at least 616 Doom has an explation for his motives, with his mother being trapped in hell, his father killed before his eyes as young boy and having his face ruined, is it any wonder he's so messed up? What's Ultimate Doom's motive?

I'm beginning to wonder if you're reading the same comics I am. The only character until Doom that may have even been close to as powerful as Thor was Hulk. No one else. Colossus is no where near as powerful as Thor. Not by a longshot. And Doom is arrogant. He was raised by an abusive, overbearing father who drilled perfection into his head for most of his life. When he met Reed, he met a rival. That's his motive.

Norman is crazy, crazy people do a lot of illogical things, why wouldn't a crazy person wear a costume. Besides Ultimate Goblin is nothing more then the poor man's Hulk IMO, he lacks any flare or personality in his tranformed state. Norman as human seems far more scarey then the Goblin.

Just because he was crazy doesn't make him wearing a Halloween costume any less lame. The Ultimates and X-men wear uniforms, and Spider-man wears a costume to protect his identity. Norman has no reason to play dress-up. And yes, he is the poor man's Hulk. That was the whole point, if you had read the first few story arcs. But, saying he doesn't have personality as the Green Goblin isn't right either. He is very visibly insane during Legacy, and that right there is enough personality to seperate him from Hulk, who is just very simple in his transformed state.

 

[The Overlord]

Re: Ultimare Revamps: Which Ones Worked and Which Ones Didn't

Colossus needs more development too... but a lot of his development is implied having grown up in such violent circumstances as a stooge of the Russian Mafia.

I would like to see them BOTH developed by showing how they interact on a date... Im not expecting an arc or anything, but I was hoping "Date Night" would actually show us a real Date... Just a subplot in an issue or two...

Also: There's a lot of potential with his crazy sister and the fact that the two of them are more powerful together than apart in 616.

I think the best to do with him is to introduce Ultimate Mikhail Rasputin, his evil other brother in the 616 universe. Perhaps he can be the who convinced his brother to jopin the mafia and is a powerful mob boss in Russia. When he heard that his brother joined the X-Men, he goes to America to get him back. He may not even need super powers, he could be the guy who is able to psyche out and bully Colossus into doing his bidding.

 

[Lynx]

Re: Ultimare Revamps: Which Ones Worked and Which Ones Didn't

Colossus needs more development too... but a lot of his development is implied having grown up in such violent circumstances as a stooge of the Russian Mafia.

I would like to see them BOTH developed by showing how they interact on a date... Im not expecting an arc or anything, but I was hoping "Date Night" would actually show us a real Date... Just a subplot in an issue or two...

Also: There's a lot of potential with his crazy sister and the fact that the two of them are more powerful together than apart in 616.

I thought he had pretty good development. He was a frustrated, in-the-closet gay man and you could tell it frustrated him. Now that he's out, I do agree that him in a relationship with Northstar would be a push that he's beginning to accept himself and his lifestyle. I thought his calm and reserved attitude towards Kurt's hateful comments showed a lot of nice development, as well. Perhaps you're right, though, that Northstar could use more development, and being in a relationship with Peter would be the best way it could be done in my opinion.