Ultimates 2 #13 (Spoilers & Discussion)

My expectations weren't really astronomical for this issue, and a few minor quibbles aside, I pretty much got what I expected. But I just couldn't help feeling -- I dunno -- indifferent to it when I was done. That said, I'm going to reread the entire series here pretty soon, and I'm looking forward to seeing how it all reads now that the bloody thing is finally complete. I'm sure with a little momentum behind it, this issue will be alot more satisfying.
 
i liked it!

in the last pages, when Gail said: "we will be waiting"

Was she talkin about her and bucky? Or her and steves unborn child? Because the latter would be awsome!!
 
robje said:
i liked it!

in the last pages, when Gail said: "we will be waiting"

Was she talkin about her and bucky? Or her and steves unborn child? Because the latter would be awsome!!
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Think she was talking generally for all the wives of WWII soldiers who never came back....I don't think it was meant to be a big twist that Cap has a son or anything
 
Well . . . most of you have hit things on the head with this issue. My take:

Pro's:

Thor's a god. The lines from the team members are to die for.
Widow's Dead. Again? She'll be back - betcha. With cold hearted revenge on her mind.
The Ultimates become separate from SHIELD
The ending in the 1940's - how sweet it was. The series starts there and ends there.
The 8 page splat

Con's:

Hitch's art
No time spent on Hulk
No time spent on Fury's arm

Pro's outnumber cons. I give it a B+.
 
ProjectX2 said:
Jesus Christ, read the posts next time, alright, mate? Don't be an idiot.

Of course #13 was going to be disappointing. We predicted everything that would happen, and it took almost a year to come out. It wasn't worth it, and it never would be.

However, it was the end of the team that got me into comics, and it made me smile.

Too bad Hitch's art sucked in the second half. Those faces were terrible. And the bodies looked like manga characters.

Thor's a God. Neat. Ultimate Thor is the best character.

Tony was fun. I liked how quickly he got over Natasha.

Clint got revenge. Awesome.

I don't really have an opinion for the other characters. I didn't think the Cap scene at the end was out of place... it begun with Cap and Gail, and it ends with Cap and Gail. America prevails.

The Avengers. We already knew that.

Perun being left alive was amusing.

I wish the story had been summed up in #12... and then have #13 come out now, like an epilogue. Have it explain Fury's arm, the reaction to the HULK STILL BEING ****ING ALIVE and more emphasis on what happens to Hank. I liked how he ended up in the cell though. It's one busy place.

It was a disappointing issue and definitely not worth the wait, yet I loved it. And that's all that matters. I'll miss Millar and Hitch, and I'll treasure my volumes of The Ultimates forever.
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SECONDED.

Unrelenting torrents of expectation drowned this issue for me - the characters looked wrong, faces/physiques all over the shop. But the spectacle, the quips, the ASGARD IS IN THE HOUSE! event, man - nothing can top it.

Hardback Ultimates 2 in the same style as the first hardback volume and I am a happy bunny forever.
 
Okay, I haven't read any of the posts on this yet.

This issue was terrible. There was a big stupid fight where nothing was actually shown and then it just ended without explanation. The fold-out was annoying. Nothing was resolved. They just left a huge mess for Loeb to clean up, whenever that might be. And then it ended with a bizarre flashback that have no context within the story itself. I mean, really, you have to go all the way back to Ultimates 1, a whole different series, to give it any relevence.

The only good part was Perun.

EDIT: Oh good, most everyone agrees with me after all. Sweet.
 
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For me, this was a case of my reaction being (perhaps inevitably) heavily, heavily, heavily influenced by the long delay between the publication of this issue and #12.

(1) For me, this read like the second half of Issue #12... literally. I think if the two were published together, if they had come out as a single issue, with what is now #13 being judged not as a stand-alone, over-anticipated discrete issue, the material in #13 would have largely been fine for me. I suspect that for those reading this in a trade paperback, or those reading #12 and #13 in one sitting as part of a larger whole, #13 will be more satisfying than it was for me, reading it, after months and months of delay, on its own.

(2) Related to (1)... and perhaps unfair in a larger context... if this is the LAST issue by this creative team (and it is), and we had to wait months and months and months and months and months for it (and we did), then I expected a BIT more "face time" for the team, apart from Thor. Again... if I read #12 and #13 together, I don't have that objection, because the other Ultimates got "their innings" in #12, taking out their Liberator-counterparts. This is Thor's turn. And that is not a knock on Thor, either. Just saying, as a stand alone, wrap up issue, this one had little time for most of the other Ultimates (for ex, Banner/Hulk...!).

(3) The post-fight "wrap up" felt rushed and unsatisfying, to me. In fairness, I didn't expect a LONG philosophical debate over the future of the Ultimates/government sponsored superheroes, or a big sit-down over Nick Fury having his ARM TORN OFF (!), and so forth. And maybe it was common knowledge that Banner/Hulk was alive (was it? Mentioned in WOLVERINE/HULK, but elsewhere too? )...And granted, there was a LOT to wrap up. But, perhaps because of that, the "wrap ups" felt very rushed and somewhat artificial for me... like they were running down a checklist... "Thor is a god - check... Ultimates to part ways with the government - check... " and so forth.

(4) On the other hand, LOVED when Cap and Thor, two guys who probably couldn't agree on the time of day, BOTH agreed that Pym was a weasel who should be thrown in a cell...*S*

(5) Really, really nitpicking here... but what, exactly, were the humans in this story arc SUPPOSED to do? Touching on all this apologizing to Thor, etc... If Loki can literally CHANGE reality... if he can make surveillance tapes SHOW Cap murdering people, can not simply create illusions but actually warp reality itself, and the like... exactly WHAT were the humans involved SUPPOSED to think? Gee, Thor... you were saving that whole "rainbow bridge" thing for a special occasion? The ability to summon Asgardian allies? That might have gone a LONG way towards showing folks you were on the up and up re Loki, no?

(6) Was also rather disappointed that, apart from Cap's counterpart, the Liberators were put down so easily... including Loki. Granted, one one one physical combat has never been Loki's forte, but was there ever a moment when you even half-thought he might beat Thor? Consistent, mind you, with how the other Ultimates put down the other Liberators, but...

(7) Enjoyed Hawkeye getting a measure of vengeance.... *S*

(8) For one, enjoyed the Scarlet Witch / "Vision" aside...

(9) Cap's comments re "your wars" rang false for me. Even if he DID have a change of heart re the wisdom of a government affiliated super team, I don't think he would use that phrasing. Even granting he might be kinda bitter about that whole "You are a traitor" thing he just went through. Another nitpicky thing, granted. Totally. But it did strike me, when I read it, that it seemed "off"...

(10) The ending... seemed odd. A nice, sentimental vignette, but (for me!) oddly disconnected from all else.

A lot of nitpicking. And overall, a great ride... I have enjoyed Ultimates 1 and 2 enormously. Sorry to see it end, but glad it finally DID, if that makes sense..*S*

Shadow
 
I've been waiting for this for so long I had forgotten about it. I was pretty psyched to see it just sitting there. It seemed surreal.
I actually liked it when Loki's horde attacked from out of nowhere, then Thor calls down Bifrost and his own army. The "ambiguous Thor" plot worked really well, and I think it worked out all that much better because it was completely resolved beyond a shadow of a doubt and, because this is comic books, in grand fashion. The artwork might just be a series-worst, but it was pretty fun to look at ... (was I the only comic book reader on the planet who had no idea this book would have a "centerfold"?)
The Tony Stark wrap-up didn't seem overly funny, and it might have been nice to trade that in for some sort of hulk wrap-up. The argument could be made that it creates a bit of mystery for the next creative team, but some sort of immediate reaction (especially from Nick Fury) would have been nice. Otherwise, as others have mentioned, remember that this is obviously a story written with "Graphic Novel" in mind - it may seem a bit off as an issue, but it's a great finale for my soon-to-be four volume set of ultimates books.
 
Good points about the lack of explanation on Banner/Hulk. Can't argue there - it was such a huge plot point it made no sense to not explain it.
 
I pretty much agree with the general opinion. It was alright.

The Tony/Hawkeye scenes were the best.

The Wanda/Robot thing was horrid beyond all ideas.


No Hulk. Lame.


The return of Thor. Kickass.
 
E said:
Good points about the lack of explanation on Banner/Hulk. Can't argue there - it was such a huge plot point it made no sense to not explain it.
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and it's not like it's gonna be explained in Hulk Vs. Wolverine (save your lame delay jokes people). Seriously, if something like Furry contacted him previously (as in Hulk vs. Wolverine) happened it'll suck.
 
Hmmm...

Yeah i really liked it, was a good end to a great 26 issue run and loved the dedication at the end !!

8 page fold out ..... worth the wait
hawkeyes revenge ...... worth the wait
tony's last moment of the run .... worth the wait
thors godhood .... worth the....

hell it was worth the wait !! roll on ultimates 3
thats just my opinion but what do i know :)

that covers it i think !!

all 26 issues..5/5
issue 26... 4/5
 
Summary -

Thor is in a mental hospital and believes he's still Thor, but Loki explains that he's crazy. Thor points out the illusion doesn't work, and hits Loki with his hammer. Loki then gets up and points out how he's omnipotent and Thor can't kill him with a hammer. He then summons an army and giant snake to eat Thor and we have to wonder why he bothered trying to make an illusion that Thor isn't a God when he's just proven to everyone that he is. Regardless, Loki then fights Thor by punching him which apparently gives him +1D6 damage. Luckily, Thor has epics and is fine. Loki with an overwhelming military force created by WETA completely makes the previous build-up to war issues obsolete. His plan of plunging the world into civil war is completely reversed when he deploys an army more powerful than the one he attacked them with in the first place. However, Thor summons the rainbow bridge and his friends show up, just in time to beat the bad guys after they've killed thousands of innocent people. Loki asks Thor if he thought it was a fun game. Thor disagrees and kills Loki with a hammer. Everyone celebrates. The End.

It was nonsense. However, two cool things - the rainbow bridge was cool, as was Loki's very off-handed way of saying, "I wiggled my nose and made everyone think Cap killed Hawkeye". I liked that a lot.

I'm not going to go into the plot hole of having an omnipotent villain like Loki with ill-defined powers - such characters are contrived to do whatever the writer needs. For example, if Loki can easily alter video footage, why would he need Hawkeye to find their security codes? Surely he can just turn off all the defence systems with his nose. And I won't dwell on the number of other plot holes like the sudden disappearance of Hulk.

Regardless, once Perun says, "Who can I surrender to? All my friends are dead." the issue actually gets really good. I love that line. I also enjoyed how Tony got over Black Widow (though Hawkeye's revenge was just crap). It had a particularly nice feel of, "Well, it's over" and a genuine sense of "it's actually been really fun". The epilogue with Cap and Gail I thought was a great emotional bookend to the series, tying the two together and ending on a near-eternal feel. I think the epilogues to #13 were pretty much brilliant. It's taken away the bitterness I had for the comic, and I'm really happy about that.

I still think Grand Theft America was ****, but the epilogues were epilogues not to just GTA, but to Super Human, Persons of Mass Destruction, and Gods & Monsters, and in that way, they did a damn fine job ending the series.
 
for a comic that took this long to come out it sure seemed rushed

I was let down

I did like some parts but most of it was suckey.
 
I agree that I found the "super final hammer strike" Thor did to finish off Loki was contrived. Why didn't he do that in the first place? Hate also the fact that there was no conclusion for Banner/Hulk's return post-battle, which sucked since he was a key player in the final battle and I would have cared more about that then Tony Stark forgetting about Natasha when he sees a hot chick.

But for some points, I believe there was some sense. Making Thor believe he was in the mental hospital was probably a hasty attempt by Loki to put Thor down but it was too late, since he didn't expect him to show up. The reason why he let the Liberators fight first before sending his own minions was explained in the last issue. He was afraid to expose himself to Odin's attention so he decided to remain incognito until that final battle. But when he was the only one left and the Liberators were crushed, he decided to "screw that" and sent his own army. It could probably be in an ego thing, or utmost hatred for Thor.

The last minute arrival of the Asgardians I agree did not make much sense because some people were killed by Loki's minions, but I think this was done for "cinematic appeal" ala Gandalf and his army in Two Towers. I hope Loki is not dead though and Thor probably destroyed only his corporal form but actually sent him back to Asgard for his punishment.
 
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I'm pretty sure Gandalf wasn't standing at the top of Helm's Deep watching Rohirrim get slaughtered waiting for dawn. If I recall, he arrives at dawn and then strikes immediately. The Asgardians seemed to be waiting for Thor's call. Military strategy, I believe, is seldom scheduled to align with dramatic timetables... :wink:
 
I forget what we're talking about or who's making what point. :?
 
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It was alright. It mostly felt like an epilogue issue, which was what it was supposed to be.

I enjoyed the 8-page spread though. So is Marvel just trying to one-up All-Star Batman and Robin's 6-page spread? Is DC gonna break out a 10-page spread now?
 
Dude - Promethea has them all beat with it's 24-page spread #12. :wink:

...

I miss Promethea. :cry:

Hold me, Mooney.
 
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