Ultimates 2 #8 Discussion (SPOILERS)

Guijllons said:
And (and I'm sure this has been discussed), what did wanda see on her phone? Can't be info about Cap, the Ultimates were in the dark about it all. Who would contact wanda first, of all people?
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People get major news flashes on their mobile phones. That's what I thought she got. I mean when Captain America gets attacked by SHIELD in New York... people talk.

Bass said:
I thought her reaction was appropriate.
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Agreed. Man, you guys are just scrapeing the bottom for anything aren't you. There was a close up of her face and her facial features were well "not casual" she reacted. Period.
 
TheManWithoutFear said:
People get major news flashes on their mobile phones. That's what I thought she got. I mean when Captain America gets attacked by SHIELD in New York... people talk.
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True that i could be reading too much into it, but it seems out of place with Tony's meeting in the next panel.

Agreed. Man, you guys are just scrapeing the bottom for anything aren't you. There was a close up of her face and her facial features were well "not casual" she reacted. Period.
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America is gay. Full stop.
 
It's interesting seeing the various Ultimates members react to to the "news" - because you really DON'T know what news it is they just got.

Take Wanda, for instance. Did she just find out about Hawkeye's family? That Cap was under suspicion? That Fury chose the Ultimates Reserves to go after Cap? That Cap had just been taken down hard?Or something else? Ditto Tony Stark. His assistant tells him something, but we have no idea what.

Also interesting that when Jan meets Hank in the bar, we never get to see Hank's face. He tells Jan to be quiet because he wants to hear the news, but we never SEE what he thinks about it. I do think Jan looked surprised and shocked.
 
Perhaps Tony is masterminding something of his own, without Fury's oversight. If Hawkeye really isn't dead (and he very well could be, especially interesting considering the 616 events pertaining to hawkeye right now), then it had to have been either Quicksilver or Scarlet Witch who saved him. In which case they are keeping Hawkeye hidden somewhere while the wait for the traitor to slip up and show himself. Also when Natasha is trying out her wedding dress she's complaining about Quicksilver hanging around, it could be because tony is having quicksilver and wanda protect natasha and he hasn't told her yet what's going on (Though of course pietro and wanda are more or less...inseperable). In addition Jan wasn't there, either because she had traitor stuff to do (meet with hank...) or because tony thinks she's one of the possibilities for being a traitor and wants to keep her away from natasha. Of course tony could not know about it at all and it could be quicksilver and wanda doing it on their own.

So my personal view on this: Loki said specifically that he just showed up to take down thor, and that this whole traitor business was somebody else's doing. Tony saw it coming, and possibly was the one who gave Bruce some sort of stimulant to wake him up and prevent him from dying in the nuke on that carrier, as after all he was the last one with him. Remember when Bruce called Hank and thanked him, thinking it was Hank who had saved his life? Hank seemed pretty surprised and upset that Bruce was still alive.

So Tony's seen this coming, and also forseen the need to have the Ultimates not be under the jurisdiction of the government anymore. He's having to walk a very thin line right now, because he can't let on too much and at the same time has to work almost single-handedly to make sure the team doesn't get taken apart. Iron Man indeed.

So people who are in on tony's plan: Quicksilver, maybe Wanda, NOT Natasha, MAYBE Bruce, if they've talked since the nuke (doesn't tony take periodic trips to mount everest? Is that why Bruce was in the himalayas in the annual? It would also be interesting if he was hunting down Ultimate Doc Strange to try to work out some kind of peace with his Hulk side). There's also the outside chance that Fury is in on this with Tony too, because he's seen the need to move the Ultimates away from under SHIELD's jurisdiction. It's obvious that he doesn't like what he was doing with Lieberman etc.
 
I don't think that Fury is thinking totally rationally. I was rereading Ultimates Vol.1 and in a scene before the skrull attack Hawkeye said, "A few years back, SHIELD was just you, me and a drink tab trying to bring down the Soviet Union." I think that his close relationship with Hawkeye has clouded his judgement and he wants revenge.
 
Gah. Am I annoyed at Millar for teasing us with the traitors identity yet again? Yes.

Will I be annoyed at Millar if it isn't revealed even in the next issue? No. I thouroughly believe it is not Millar's intention to reveal the identity of the traitor before issue 10 at the earliest.

What irks me now is, it looks more and more like the traitor doesn't even exist, that Loki and/or Red Skull is just screwing with everyone, which I can easily accept, but it's a blatant red herring.

Anyway, all that said, it was a short but very exciting issue. I was very interested to see Fury's reactions to last issues massacre, it's a side of him we haven't seen before, and for me, it really hits it home that Fury isn't, and doesn't know who, the traitor is. This issue made me realise that I actually really like Fury. The revelation of Starks little hobby can be seen in a number of ways, both suspicious and perfectly innocent.

There really is too much to comment on this issue, it's all been said earlier in the thread, so I'll close by saying that it offered up a whole load of plot points and side stories, which I'm grateful for being able to follow, and served to further this delicious little 'traitor' mystery. However, I'm a bit concerned with where Millar's going with this, and I'm beginning to suspect we are all going to be sorely dissapointed at the revelation, or lack of. Millar is Loki.
 
Terraneaux said:
Perhaps Tony is masterminding something of his own, without Fury's oversight. If Hawkeye really isn't dead, then it had to have been either Quicksilver or Scarlet Witch who saved him. In which case they are keeping Hawkeye hidden somewhere while the wait for the traitor to slip up and show himself. Also when Natasha is trying out her wedding dress she's complaining about Quicksilver hanging around, it could be because tony is having quicksilver and wanda protect natasha and he hasn't told her yet what's going on (Though of course pietro and wanda are more or less...inseperable).
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What I particularly like about this little theory is the idea of Tony getting Quicksilver and Wanda to guard Natasha, given the relationship between Natasha and the siblings. When I read that scene the first time, I wondered what the two of them were doing, wedding dress shopping with the Widow, since it's been shown before that they can't stand each other. Could the nasty little cutting comments be some form of friendly rivalry? Ehhhh, I don't think so, especially given what the Widow said about Wanda and her sense of fashion. Distinctly not nice.

I guess it could be that Tony is playing a deeper game than anyone else. He's a smart guy, even though the "smart" has been played down a bit this volume.
 
Rhyo said:
I guess it could be that Tony is playing a deeper game than anyone else. He's a smart guy, even though the "smart" has been played down a bit this volume.
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For your own safety, don't mention anything about Tony's intelligence while E might hear it.....
 
Fuzzy Birds said:
For your own safety, don't mention anything about Tony's intelligence while E might hear it.....
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DUR, MABE SUMONE PUNCHED IRN MAN AND HURTED HIS BRANE BODIE!!!!??????????????????!!!!!!!??!?!?!???!!????!!!!!!!!! MABE THAT WY HE DUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Poor, poor Cap. I still think he's innocent though.
 
If Tony isn't involved, it will be interesting to see how he feels about his Irontech technology being used in such a manner (the Rocketmen taking down Captain America without his knowledge).

That could also play a factor in a potential split from S.H.I.E.L.D.
 
I can totally see it now. Iron Man splits and neglects to tell SHIELD that the Rocketmen armor needs an authorization code from the Stark Enterprises Network or the armor's computer system erases itself.
 
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