Ultimates 2 #9 cover.

[bizzarojimmyolsen]

Dude.

That's ****ing brilliant.

Tony's already had suicide attempts as mentioned in The Ultimates 2 #4. This does make sense and adds a completely different spin to the cover.

Good catch, and welcome you bizarro freak, you.

Praise from Caesar.

 

[Bass]

It seems I have yet another disciple.

I AM THE NEXUS.​

​

 

[E]

Am I the only one who thinks the cover of #9 depicts the scene of a suicide attempt by Tony? That would indicate that the traitor is either Tony or the Widow, my moneys on the widow. And as an added bonus a failed suicide attempt would give the doctors the opportunity to get at that brain tumor.

Just a thought and it's my first post so don't judge me too harshly.

One of the better-thought out and reasonable theories, no question about it.

Welcome

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

BizzaroJimmyOlsen, Welcome and good thinking.

 

[moonmaster]

Am I the only one who thinks the cover of #9 depicts the scene of a suicide attempt by Tony? That would indicate that the traitor is either Tony or the Widow, my moneys on the widow. And as an added bonus a failed suicide attempt would give the doctors the opportunity to get at that brain tumor.

Just a thought and it's my first post so don't judge me too harshly.

Wow, good thoughts.

And welcome...







BIZAAAARRROOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Hawkeye101]

Dude.

That's ****ing brilliant.

Tony's already had suicide attempts as mentioned in The Ultimates 2 #4. This does make sense and adds a completely different spin to the cover.

Good catch, and welcome you bizarro freak, you.

Suicide? Really? And how then, does that fit into everything we've been told? The traitor screws up Tony's wedding. And if Tony is the traitor, commiting suicide would kind of end the arc now wouldn't it? No moer traitor, no more problem. Ecept, who pays for Hawkeye's family's burial.

 

[bizzarojimmyolsen]

Suicide? Really? And how then, does that fit into everything we've been told? The traitor screws up Tony's wedding. And if Tony is the traitor, commiting suicide would kind of end the arc now wouldn't it? No moer traitor, no more problem. Ecept, who pays for Hawkeye's family's burial.

That's why I think the traitor is Widow. She does something to expose herself before the wedding and is either caught or goes into hiding. Tony distraught after providing the traitor with the war machine armor and god knows what else tries to alleviate his suffering by applying a 9mm to his head.

I know this leaves a problem because the traitor said, "this isn't a nation I believe in anymore." So why would the widow say this? Because she grew up in the Soviet Union, and like many Soviets had an idealized view of the US. But as the Ultimates have become a tool of political policy she's become disillusioned.

Second problem, Hank says, "I just wouldn't have had you pegged as a traitor." Why, because unlike Tony, Thor, Wanda, Jan, and Pietro, Natasha is a soldier just like Hawkeye and Cap. If someone was going to betray the team it was going to be one of the outsiders not the real soldiers.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Bass]

Suicide? Really? And how then, does that fit into everything we've been told? The traitor screws up Tony's wedding. And if Tony is the traitor, commiting suicide would kind of end the arc now wouldn't it? No moer traitor, no more problem. Ecept, who pays for Hawkeye's family's burial.

Well, my point was we all thought #9 looked like it was promoting a "hit" on the wedding, or more likely, Tony. But here we have a clever observation that makes it look like a suicide attempt. Considering that Tony has been suicidal before, it does suddenly make a lot of sense - Widow is the traitor, or is killed by the traitor (Cap or Iron Man) - and Tony's suicidal tendecies rise.

Now, say Tony is the traitor, we don't know what happens in #8. It's possible he could become guilty.

Also, if the Red Skull is the traitor, Widow already has Red hair, and she's a Red (Russian).

I'm just saying it is a very different way to look at this cover that could prove to be correct.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

Well, my point was we all thought #9 looked like it was promoting a "hit" on the wedding, or more likely, Tony. But here we have a clever observation that makes it look like a suicide attempt. Considering that Tony has been suicidal before, it does suddenly make a lot of sense - Widow is the traitor, or is killed by the traitor (Cap or Iron Man) - and Tony's suicidal tendecies rise.

Now, say Tony is the traitor, we don't know what happens in #8. It's possible he could become guilty.

Also, if the Red Skull is the traitor, Widow already has Red hair, and she's a Red (Russian).

I'm just saying it is a very different way to look at this cover that could prove to be correct.

Now you consider Black Widow? Cmon Bass I've been tellin' you from the beginning.

 

[Hawkeye101]

See the thing is Widow does believe in the US that's why she wanted to be working for Fury. She's seen what a communistic society does and she wanted to live in teh land of Democaracy. Ultimate Widow is constantly bad mouthing Russia and how horrible it is to it's people, especially when it was the USSR. Read Ultimate Nightmare.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

See the thing is Widow does believe in the US that's why she wanted to be working for Fury. She's seen what a communistic society does and she wanted to live in teh land of Democaracy. Ultimate Widow is constantly bad mouthing Russia and how horrible it is to it's people, especially when it was the USSR. Read Ultimate Nightmare.

I agree as far as this is the country I believe in speech two things come in mind.

1. Like you said Widow has adapted this country as her own. Not too mention it never clearly says anything like "my" country. If anything the only reason that was written in there was to further suspicions that the traitor is Captain America.

2. Running on the last point. I don't think the traitor really gives a flying **** about what happens or what is happening with the country. The traitor probably has his/her own agenda and is just giving the patriotic speech to seduce Hank.

 

[Bass]

Now you consider Black Widow? Cmon Bass I've been tellin' you from the beginning.

I considered everyone. I just eliminated her as a suspect is all.

 

[iceman]

alright, so now that every single character has at least 25 speculated reasons to be the traitor, let's just wait til issue 8. or have a finalized betting pool, because there are only so many choices. also: i believe the person on issue 8 isn't the traitor, but is wrongly accused to get him out of the picture. i think it's cap. traitor's all like, "yo, cap can fight, gotsta get rid of him" so he/she frames him. i'm sure this has been said before, but i believe it.

 

[Hawkeye101]

alright, so now that every single character has at least 25 speculated reasons to be the traitor, let's just wait til issue 8. or have a finalized betting pool, because there are only so many choices. also: i believe the person on issue 8 isn't the traitor, but is wrongly accused to get him out of the picture. i think it's cap. traitor's all like, "yo, cap can fight, gotsta get rid of him" so he/she frames him. i'm sure this has been said before, but i believe it.

Well the person is in red gloves on teh cover of #8, and the cap is the only one who wears red gloves. This traitor business could cast anyone as the traitor. For all we know, Millar has 10 different endings to #8 so that he can decide at the last minute who the traitor is. Since we can see anyone being the traitor, and anyone not being the traitor, and the fact that Millar said Ultimate Red Skull and Ultron will be in this arc, and Loki has already appeared, we are acctually seeing a plot invented by the bad guys too 'frame' (how ever they do it, impersination, mind controll whatever) one of the Ultimates and not a one is truely a traitor.

 

[DIrishB]

I like Bizarro's theory about Black Widow being the traitor and Tony attempting suicide when he learns of it. One, like it was said, he's attempted suicide in the past. Two, I genuinely believe he loves Widow, or at least he thinks he does, so her betrayal and leaving him would hit him pretty hard. Three, he's dying of a brain tumor, and Tony seems like a control-freak, so maybe he wants to go out on his own terms rather than let the tumor slowly kill him, and the Black Widow betrayal is merely just more motivation to do it. Four, Natasha seems like the only one on the team who could actually pull off killing kids, and her and Hawkeye had been working on the Black Ops team for awhile before being promoted to the public team so it would be the ultimate betrayal (and the way Hitch drew that scene it was obvious Hawkeye knew who it was). And five, who could live with Jarvis constantly saying, "I told you so you stupid heterosexual millionaire."

Anyway, at this point the traitor could still be anyone, but I really like Bizarro's theory and think it has a lot of merit. Makes me think its Black Widow anyway. I like his theory even more than my own Hawkeye being rescued theory.

 

[Hawkeye101]

Three, he's dying of a brain tumor

Well, not really. Yes he has a brain tumor, and he went to a regular doctor, probably the best in the nation, but a non-super human doctor. But he is a human brain. Every cell in his body acts as a brain cell. A brain tumor kills you by killing off enough brain tissue that the parts of the brain that you still have cannot contain the required amount of information to keep every bodily function going.

If you loose a part of you brain (I'm talking for the average joes) whatever is left of you brain will try and 'learn' what the missing part of your brain held.

In Tony's case any part of his body can 'learn' whatever the tumor takes away. In all reality, Tony could loose the enitrety of his brain and still be alive. The doctors could still operate. They aren't aware that his entire body is brain and the brain loss during surgery would account for very little. Just for the record, it is absolutely impossible for Tony to die from that tumor.

 

[DIrishB]

Well, not really. Yes he has a brain tumor, and he went to a regular doctor, probably the best in the nation, but a non-super human doctor. But he is a human brain. Every cell in his body acts as a brain cell. A brain tumor kills you by killing off enough brain tissue that the parts of the brain that you still have cannot contain the required amount of information to keep every bodily function going.

If you loose a part of you brain (I'm talking for the average joes) whatever is left of you brain will try and 'learn' what the missing part of your brain held.

In Tony's case any part of his body can 'learn' whatever the tumor takes away. In all reality, Tony could loose the enitrety of his brain and still be alive. The doctors could still operate. They aren't aware that his entire body is brain and the brain loss during surgery would account for very little. Just for the record, it is absolutely impossible for Tony to die from that tumor.

I have a hard time believing his doctors have no clue about his unique situation. Secondly, he himself said, in the first volume, that he was dying from it, he wasn't sure how long he had to live, etc, but there was no doubt about the fact that its slowly killing him. Also remember, it was Card's mini series which established his brain tissue was scattered all over his body. When Millar wrote the first Ultimates volume, its apparent he intended Tony to be a regular human, just with a genius level of intelligence. So therefore a brain tumor would affect him the same as anyone else. It was Card's decision to ignore everything previous writer's had done with the character and write that origin. While in itself its not a bad origin, since it causes discrepancies and screw-ups with what was previously written about him, its obvious Card is a raving egomaniac who didn't research the character at all.

 

[14rdb]

Funny thing is, more recently Millar decided to ignore that fact (in one interview commenting that he even considered having Tony come out and say he was just joking about the brain tumor in the first place), but Loeb, due to his personal history, is certain to make it a major storyline.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

Funny thing is, more recently Millar decided to ignore that fact (in one interview commenting that he even considered having Tony come out and say he was just joking about the brain tumor in the first place), but Loeb, due to his personal history, is certain to make it a major storyline.

Yeah, how could u just drop a storyline like that. Card is screwing things up and I'm glad Loeb is willing to pick up the slack. I want to see this addressed.

 

[Hawkeye101]

Yeah, how could u just drop a storyline like that. Card is screwing things up and I'm glad Loeb is willing to pick up the slack. I want to see this addressed.

Card has screwed nothing up. The doctors don't know that he is a living brain. Therefore thinking that Iron Man is an average Joe said "Yep a brain tumor like this is gonna kill ya." And Tony then believes he is dying. Un aware of the fact that the rest of his body can sustain itself, so he assumes he's dying.