Ultimates V2 #10 Discussion (SPOILERS)

[Ice]

Gunnar Golmen.

Or maybe:

"Gunnar Golmen"


DUN DUN DUUUUUUN.

I replied to the wrong post above. I said sound effects are so 90's X-Men - I meant thought balloons. I don't really have a problem with sound effects. Thought balloons are an abomination.

A good comic like Watchmen or Ultimates doesn't need thought balloons. If the writer and artist are good, they can convey what the character is thinking without words if words aren't warranted. Anything else should be left alone to develop during the course of the story.

Maybe it's just my distaste for silver-age comics showing, but when I read a character thinking "Yikes! I'd better jump to avoid these rockets!" it ruins the panel. What an absurd thing to put in a comic. It sounds ridiculous and insults the reader's intelligence.

ShadowPrime - well said.

Totally agree on the though bubbles thing. Joe Q. shares your same thoughts.

Definetly would not look good with the Ultimates.

 

[McCheese]

Or maybe:

"Gunnar Golmen"


DUN DUN DUUUUUUN.

Damn. You got me there. Dramatic music and everything.

Totally agree on the though bubbles thing. Joe Q. shares your same thoughts.

Definetly would not look good with the Ultimates.

Where did Joe Q. say this?

Does this mean no thought bubbles in Ultimates 3 then?

 

[Ice]

During a couple of interviews when asked that question, Joe Q. said he doesn't like thought bubbles. I like it with no thought bubbles. Like E said, it can be done with just the artist.

 

[ProjectX2]

Ick. Thought balloons suck. I applaud Miller when he started using the thought boxes in Daredevil.

 

[a fan]

I heard that loki was called by another name and it wasen't gunnar at all. But I will check again

 

[Bass]

Re: Buzzcope previews Ultimates 2 #10.

I'm not complaining, just trying to understand how all the Ultimate universe pieces fit together, story-wise and time-wise. Given that they started from scratch, I hoped that the Ultimate editors would keep a tight rein on everything, given the few titles they have.

Your thoughts?

I'm pretty sure there's already several continuity holes in the Ultimate universe. It's really not all tied together that impressively.

But welcome Pistachio! My dad is always eating your nuts.

I replied to the wrong post above. I said sound effects are so 90's X-Men - I meant thought balloons. I don't really have a problem with sound effects. Thought balloons are an abomination.

A good comic like Watchmen or Ultimates doesn't need thought balloons. If the writer and artist are good, they can convey what the character is thinking without words if words aren't warranted. Anything else should be left alone to develop during the course of the story.

Maybe it's just my distaste for silver-age comics showing, but when I read a character thinking "Yikes! I'd better jump to avoid these rockets!" it ruins the panel. What an absurd thing to put in a comic. It sounds ridiculous and insults the reader's intelligence.

People do thought-balloons all the time. The difference is that they're rectangle boxes now instead of bubbly balloons. Before, the rectangle boxes would be, "Meanwhile..." while the thought-balloons would represent characters thoughts. Now, we don't get "Meanwhile" except as a pure text without box or anything like "The Triskelion" and the boxes are now filled with the same diatribe we had in bubbly balloons. Cosmetic change, no more - It's voice-over narration.

Sloppy, lazy writers use the narration boxes like the sloppy, lazy writers used thought balloons - as ways to easily convey the emotions, thoughts, and exposition of a story without having to do any of the work. While the really good writers who knew what they were doing would use the concept of voice-over narration to counterpoint the story. For example, Jeph Loeb's very bland discussions of emotions in Daredevil: Yellow and Spider-Man: Blue, where he uses the narration boxes to not only tell us exactly what Daredevil/Spidey is feeling, but to tell us what is going on and what has just happened and so forth. J Michael Straczynski's nonsense voice-overs in Amazing Spider-Man #36 and the recent The Other storyline, along with Kevin Smith and any number of other writers who write an episode with such a 'profound meaningful turning point' that the character state, in their narration boxes, 'there are no words, there are no words' yet still manage to fill 22-pages with text. And if someone doesn't use the tool of voice-over narration to remove sub-text from their story, they do it in the dialogue, as Bendis or Millar do.

But those who can write, use the voice-over narration to enhance the storytelling. Bendis did this admirably in the first 20+ issues of Ultimate Spider-Man with Spidey's wise-cracking persona was counterpointed with narration that helped create a feeling of this being the 'first' Spider-Man stories, wtihout being intrusive. Frank Miller turns voice-over narration into a complete self-pastiche in Sin City by being so relentless in its use. Brian Azzarrello seemlessly blends voice-over narration and dialogue in all of his works. Alan Moore uses beautiful prose narration in many of his earlier works to enhance the symbolism and meaning of his stories as we see in V for Vendetta, Miracleman, and Watchmen, and in other times, such as his Superman and ABC stories, he actually and honestly uses thought balloons to create windows into the minds of the protagonists whilst simultaneously harking back to simpler times.

A tool is a tool. Like decompression, dialogue, flashbacks, panel sizes, gutter sizes, splash pages, sound effects, narration boxes... thought-balloons are another tool.

 

[Ultimate Houde]

Bass, Tool is a band

GOSH

Grow up

*yes, I feel juvenile tonight, I'm sure it will pass*

 

[E]

I agree w/ Bass. And the example of Bendis using it in Ultimate Spider-Man is indeed a good example of very good usage.

 

[Bass]

To bring this back on topic somewhat, considering my disappointment with the last two issues of the Ultimates, I'm sorely tempted to do a "The What If Manifesto" detailing the possibilities of how Ultimates 2 would've changed had someone else been the traitor, and possibly, been changed for the better. It would be an exercise in working out my annoyance at the least, I suppose.

 

[MoS]

Have some (okay, LOTS) of caffeine, Bass. Wire yourself up and have at it...

or at least start a "What if" thread and we will ALL help you make up scenarios.

 

[MaxwellSmart]

I've surprisingly never gotten into a detailed discussion about thought bubbles, but I would definitely say I'm against them as a rule. I'm kind of surprised this is turning into a lengthy discussion since no one seems to be in favor of them.

The problem with them, from my perspective, is if they're done poorly they make the characters sound like supermodels, by how unintelligent it makes them sound. Bendis does a good job at making Spiderman sound appropriate for his age, relationships, and character. It also fits spiderman because his character is such talkative it only makes sense that he's got an inner monologue. I've always thought it was the job of the artist to convey the characters emotion.

 

[vintsukka]

I think inner monologue fits Spider-Man because the book is essentially about that one character and the events are mostly presented to us through his eyes (you don't get to read what Vulture is thinking about). Whereas in team books like Ultimates and X-Men you are observing the group from the outside.

Is it me or is this getting a tad off topic?

 

[UltimateSpiderBuggy]

Is it me or is this getting a tad off topic?

Just a tad...

So how about that Ultimate Statue of Liberty? Are the Ultimate Ghostbusters going to raise it up?

 

[Bass]

That...


That is better than my cake theory.

When America's invaded, who you gonna call?!

ULTIMATE GHOSTBUSTERS!​

 

[Victor Von Doom]

Just a tad...

So how about that Ultimate Statue of Liberty? Are the Ultimate Ghostbusters going to raise it up?

"You know your love (your love keeps liftin' me)
Keeps on liftin' (your love keeps liftin' me)
Higher (liftin' me, liftin' me), higher, and higher (higher)
I said your love (your love keeps liftin' me)
Keeps on (liftin' me, liftin' me)
Liftin' me (liftin' me) higher and higher (higher)..." :lol:

 

[Bass]

:lol:

 

[DIrishB]

Now that #10 is out, I have an idiot question: what is Spider-Man up to during the events of #9 and #10?

Pardon me for being a newbie and all, but it seems to me like there's rather less coordination/continuity maintenance amongst the Ultimate titles than one would hope for. While the Peter/Kitty romance has been cross-listed, true, you'd think an INVASION would interrupt the date night going on in UXM 66-67? Oh, and how can Nick Fury & Tony Stark be monitoring Spider-Man's actions in USM #89-90 if they're fighting for their lives?

I'm not complaining, just trying to understand how all the Ultimate universe pieces fit together, story-wise and time-wise. Given that they started from scratch, I hoped that the Ultimate editors would keep a tight rein on everything, given the few titles they have.

Your thoughts?

Check out the Ultimate Marvel Timeline thread here:

Ultimate Marvel Timeline

That should answer your questions. Of note, the Ultimate writers all seem to be holding back in terms of addressing the events of Ultimates 2, at least until it concludes, so as not to ruin the ending or give away any details. It has been said we'll be seeing those events addressed in the other titles, however, once #12 is out, so we'll see.

Welcome!

I'm pretty sure there's already several continuity holes in the Ultimate universe. It's really not all tied together that impressively.

But welcome Pistachio! My dad is always eating your nuts.

:lol:

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

Sorry if someone has brought this up...

But does anyone else think that the coalition of subversive foreign military forces may form Hydra?

 

[Random]

Sorry if someone has brought this up...

But does anyone else think that the coalition of subversive foreign military forces may form Hydra?

I wouldn't be surprised

 

[E]

Sorry if someone has brought this up...

But does anyone else think that the coalition of subversive foreign military forces may form Hydra?

I think someone may have suggested that, but yeah, its a good guess. Certainly makes sense.