Women in comics
- Thread starter TwilightEL
- Start date
Iceshadow
Well-Known Member
3 lesbians?! Well I know Dr. Mann is, I didn't realize that Cassandra and 355 were also. (I'm behind in my Y trades, stupid Amazon)
Yeah I guess you're right, would Blink count?
Zombipanda
My Boom-Boom's mostly gay
I think there's a lot of strong female characters out there, and a number of them have extremely prominent places in their universe. There's the Birds of Prey, Manhunter, Colleen Wing and Misty Knight, She-Hulk... and these characters typically don't wear outfits that are particularly outrageous (Well, Colleen and Misty.... but that fits the characters). Everyone in superhero comics is idealized, and everyone wears a stupid costume. I think the best we can hope for right now is to continue to have quality stories being told about strong female characters. And looking at the sort of esteem some of these books get, I think we're in a pretty strong place. We can open up comics to more female readership (especially with people like Whedon and Vaughan around), but it's an uphill battle.
compound
Well-Known Member
Moderately Popular Non-White Female Comic Characters:
Ultimate Wasp
Renee Montoya/(the new) Question
Vixen (DC; mostly because of her role in the JLU cartoon)
Lady Shiva
Colleen Wing
Misty Knight
Monica Rambeau (more of a cult following; largely because of her involvement in Nextwave!)
Sunfire (Exiles; female version)
Rainmaker (Gen13 -- another lesbian, I might add)
Jenny Quantum (The Authority)
Swift (The Authority)
Jakita Wagner (Planetary; ethnicity indeterminate at start of series; but definitely of mixed/inter-racial parentage, based on physical appearance)
Jubilee (not as much now; but definitely in the 90s)
Karma (New Mutants/New X-Men; also a lesbian in mainstream Marvel continuity)
Katana (Outsiders)
Ultimate Wasp
Renee Montoya/(the new) Question
Vixen (DC; mostly because of her role in the JLU cartoon)
Lady Shiva
Colleen Wing
Misty Knight
Monica Rambeau (more of a cult following; largely because of her involvement in Nextwave!)
Sunfire (Exiles; female version)
Rainmaker (Gen13 -- another lesbian, I might add)
Jenny Quantum (The Authority)
Swift (The Authority)
Jakita Wagner (Planetary; ethnicity indeterminate at start of series; but definitely of mixed/inter-racial parentage, based on physical appearance)
Jubilee (not as much now; but definitely in the 90s)
Karma (New Mutants/New X-Men; also a lesbian in mainstream Marvel continuity)
Katana (Outsiders)
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Gideon Stargrave
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2006
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I actually think that Renee Montoya (The new Question) is a strong female character who dresses conservatively. You know, when she's not having sex with Bat Woman.
Zombipanda
My Boom-Boom's mostly gay
I don't know. We'll see about that.... I liked Renee better when she was a detective. Her transformation really didn't do it for me, and I really didn't feel the character's change. If DC had given Rucka the Question series he pitched to them, then I bet Renee and Batwoman would both turn out to be strong characters, but they're going to be shelved and forgotten.
compound
Well-Known Member
Uh oh! I didn't mean to spoil the reveal about 355. Damn. I kinda assumed that everybody was up to speed about this.
I'm REALLY sorry.
However, I'm kinda surprised that you weren't aware of Cassandra Cain's sexuality, because when it was first announced (via a DC press statement), there was considerable hype and buzz in the "mainstream"/non-comics media, due to the 'controversy' of introducing a prominent lesbian character.
TwilightEL
Well-Known Member
I think getting more women readers will boost it a lot, but as I pointed out to Bass, I think one of the best things to do would be to make statues and covers less stupid and awful. Not that many covers and statues aren't wonderful and provide equal-opportunity ***-kicking and sexiness opportunities, but if the average woman on the street (or male active in feminist causes, or pretty much anyone who hasn't been desensitized to that stuff) walks into a store and see **** like the stuff I posted in response to Bass, I don't think they'd stick around long enough to see the good stuff.
Iceshadow said:
The only thing we know about 355 regarding her sexual preferences
is that she seems to like Yorick and had sex with Mann, but considered it a mistake.
Compound is confusing Cassandra Cain with the new Batgirl. They're different people. Cass is straight, new girl's the new Question's lover. Look it up.
Joe Kalicki
Well-Known Member
That's not Cassandra Cain, that's Kathy Kane, Batwoman.
compound
Well-Known Member
Okay, I stand corrected. I was mixing up their names. (I'd like to point out that Twilight got her alter-ego wrong, as well, though, just because I can be petty like that
)
Joe Kalicki
Well-Known Member
Hey, I know my lesbians' alter egoes.
Zombipanda
My Boom-Boom's mostly gay
That's the problem. The big companies will never stop producing cheesecake T&A. Too big of a segment of their audience buys into it, and that kind of philosophy is too deeply embedded in the industry.
We either need a way to sell comics to female readers without bringing them into a comic story (at which point, they'll realize how wicked-awesome comics are, and brave statue-**** to pick up their comic books at the shop). I think the gaudiness of the statues and everything ends up turning away more people than just women. I think comic book outlets need to get inventive if they want to draw ANY new readers in.
For instance, the awesome local record shop also sells comic books. and I think it draws in a lot of people who otherwise wouldn't pick those books up.
Iceshadow
Well-Known Member
Uh oh! I didn't mean to spoil the reveal about 355. Damn. I kinda assumed that everybody was up to speed about this.
I'm REALLY sorry.
It's cool, I was already thinking that she probably was anyways.
EDIT: Never mind everyone else confirmed that it was Batwoman.
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TwilightEL
Well-Known Member
That's the kind of thing the movies and cross-promotional advertising are ideal for. I don't think that continuity should be changed so the movies and comics match, but they should take advantage of the movie hype.
Good way to do that: Publishing the Back in Black Guide to Marvel thing when Spider-Man was coming out.
Bad way to do that: The stupid MJ statue.
compound
Well-Known Member
Look... since I've already spoiled it earlier, if anybody wants indisputable proof that
Agent 355 is open to lesbian sexual relations
Getting back on topic now...
I think Zombi might be onto something here...
"Traditional" comic stores are both commercial AND social spaces, and as such, they are built to accomodate the tastes of the the comic market, which includes a sizeable minority of pervs who happen to like crap such as the MJ statue.
But that doesn't mean the direct market can't be expanded beyond "traditional" comic stores -- it thus places the onus on progressive-minded retailers to expand their stock to include the comics that ARE worthy of attention by a more diverse readership. After all, anybody can make a bulk order from the Diamond Previews catalog, as long as they have the financial resources to do so.
So I guess one possible step is to convince more retailers to stock comics in related markets: Zombipanda already mentioned independent record stores. Specialized DVD rentals/stores might be another possible outlet. Or non-chain/franchise book-sellers, for that matter, to name another obvious route.
If we agree that there's already a signficant number of "women-friendly" comics being produced, then maybe the real challenge is finding better ways to get those books to their potential audience?
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Isn't that what comics like that "Spider-man:heart: mary Jane" or what ever it's called for? To get teenage girls into comics?
TwilightEL
Well-Known Member
But they're never going to know about them if they look in the window of a comic shop and see sixteen-year-olds shoving their boobs at people.
Zombipanda
My Boom-Boom's mostly gay
Nuh-uh. Marvel writes that book for Joe Kalicki. Pre-teen girls think it's totally gay.
ultimatedjf
Well-Known Member
Zombipanda
My Boom-Boom's mostly gay
Nico is trisexual. Don't forget, she slept with a robot!
Pfffft... You can't blame Nico for sleeping like a robot. The only reason you haven't slept with a robot (and most people for that matter. me included) is because you haven't had the opportunity.
