X-Men: First Class discussion (spoilers!)

[Jaggyd]

The continuity issues are not what made the Star Wars prequels a failure, and the success of this film continues to prove that. There's gonna be inconsistencies for sure, even if you disregard Wolverine Origins, but the connections between First Class and the glory days of the X-films and the knowledge that they're all part of the same story makes it that much more epic and emotional an experience for me. Furthermore, the refusal to reboot means we could actually get an X4 someday, maybe even with Singer helming it. That's something I've needed for a long time.

Ah, so nostalgic reasons. Because, nothing's stopping Singer to continue the series started with First Class. Plus, I wasn't saying that the continuity issues are what made the Prequel Trilogy bad, I'm just saying that if First Class is in the previous X-Men universe, there are some terrible continuity issues.

Storm's cameo in First Class would make her around 50 in X1, plus she was a child in Wolverine.
Emma's age, if First Class is true, she's in her late 60's in X1, while she was 20-something in Wolverine.
Beast and Shaw are portrayed as in their 30's in their X2 cameo (altho, X3 Beast would be about the right age to be the Beast from First Class)
Alex Summers would be old enough to be Scott's dad in X1

Which is why I find it hard to wrap my mind around the desire for this to not be a reboot.

 

[Hellsbuttmonkey]

Yeah, the continuity issues are quite small as well, saying Magneto helped develop Cerebro probably being the biggest issue.
The Shaw/Hank clip on the monitor was a tiny throwaway moment that most people didn't actually notice. Plus you could take a leap of imagination in the case of Beast at least and say he was using some kind of holographic projector. As for Shaw, they called him Dr Shaw, not Sebastian Shaw. What's to say it wasn't Shinobi Shaw.
Then we simply toss out the Wolverine issues, because I prefer to ignore the existence of it.
As for the helmet, the one he wore at the end was different looking to Shaws one he stole. Possibly he redesigned it.

 

[ProjectX2]

I'm pretty sure X-Men 3 and X-Men Origins: Wolverine don't exist in Bryan Singer's X-Men continuity anyway... which means he can direct X-Men Returns in a few years time.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

When she transformed into Rebecca Romijn, that didn't make sense at all. How did she know what her older form was going to look like?

Cause she created her older form. Her natural true form was blue. The Jennifer Lawerence and Rebecca Romijn look are projections of what she would want to look like. She can make herself into older people already so why not go for an older look while seducing an older man? Then again the real reason behind it was just to make us go 'Heh' which it worked, right?

 

[Planet-man]

Ah, so nostalgic reasons. Because, nothing's stopping Singer to continue the series started with First Class. Plus, I wasn't saying that the continuity issues are what made the Prequel Trilogy bad, I'm just saying that if First Class is in the previous X-Men universe, there are some terrible continuity issues.

Storm's cameo in First Class would make her around 50 in X1, plus she was a child in Wolverine.
Emma's age, if First Class is true, she's in her late 60's in X1, while she was 20-something in Wolverine.
Beast and Shaw are portrayed as in their 30's in their X2 cameo (altho, X3 Beast would be about the right age to be the Beast from First Class)
Alex Summers would be old enough to be Scott's dad in X1

Which is why I find it hard to wrap my mind around the desire for this to not be a reboot.

Because of a bunch of cameos that were put in as complete throwaway fun? Most of which were in the shakily-connected Wolverine Origins? And Alex Summers having a different age range from.... the comics? Yeah, really hard to wrap one's mind around those not mattering....

And calling what I said "nostalgic reasons" is a gross oversimplification of a feeling that I think we all have about one thing or another. Things being connected and part of a grander epic story is a great and sometimes goosebump-giving thing.

Yeah, the continuity issues are quite small as well, saying Magneto helped develop Cerebro probably being the biggest issue.
The Shaw/Hank clip on the monitor was a tiny throwaway moment that most people didn't actually notice. Plus you could take a leap of imagination in the case of Beast at least and say he was using some kind of holographic projector. As for Shaw, they called him Dr Shaw, not Sebastian Shaw. What's to say it wasn't Shinobi Shaw.
Then we simply toss out the Wolverine issues, because I prefer to ignore the existence of it.
As for the helmet, the one he wore at the end was different looking to Shaws one he stole. Possibly he redesigned it.

Even with the Cerebro thing, the one in the mansion is obviously a much more streamlined and advanced one that Magneto could well help build and install in the future(there's nothing to say their friendship is over permanently at this point[or any point in the five films].... Erik and co could easily team up with them again in another prequel and contribute to the school). That's also where he could start working on the McKellen helmet which can block not just telepaths, but Cerebro itself.

And I prefer to ignore most of Wolverine Origins too.

 

[thee great one]

Emma Frost is in the movie, while a similar character was also in X-Men Origins: Wolverine, which is set in the end of the 1970s. In X-Men Origins: Wolverine she is only a kid. The Emma in X-Men Origins: Wolverine is never referred to as Emma Frost in the film and does not show any telepathic ability, she is also the sister of Kayla Silverfox, so it can be assumed she is an original character based loosely on Emma Frost and thus they are different characters.
Charles and Erik have not yet visited Jean Grey, while they did in X-Men: The Last Stand. In The Last Stand it is revealed that they visited her in about 1980, while X-Men: First Class is set in the 1960s. However, Erik and Charles split at the end of X-Men: First Class so unless they call a truce or become allies once again this cancels out The Last Stand's flashback.
The X-Mansion is not the same as the Mansion in the first three movies.
Storm has a cameo in the movie, but she is a teenager. This movie is set in the 1960s, while X-Men Origins: Wolverine, where Storm is a little girl, is set in the 1970s. However Storm was only seen in trailers for X-Men Origins: Wolverine not the final cut of the film.
In X2 Sebastian Shaw is seen debating with Dr. Hank McCoy about the mutant phenomenon. X2 is set in the 2000s, while this movie is set in the 1960s (40 years earlier). In the movie McCoy is already transformed, while he is a 'normal person' in X2. This could be explained by an image inducer or a reverse mutation, something that has been done numerous times in the comics.
In X-Men: The Last Stand and X-Men Origins: Wolverine, Xavier is bald and walking, whereas at the end of X-Men: First Class Xavier is wheelchair bound, though this could be explained by sequels in the First Class franchise.
Storm and Cyclops appear as children when Charles uses Cerebro for the first time, in 1962. Both mutants are children, which would place their adult selves in the first film at older than they actually were.
In X-Men, Xavier doesn't know why he can't find Magneto using Cerebro, but in First Class Xavier witnesses the effects of the helmet Magneto wears, though the helmets are different designs.
In X2: X-Men United, Sebastian Shaw is speaking with McCoy on television. Shaw died in X-Men: First Class but appears in a very brief cameo in X2.
In X2: X-Men United, Xavier says he worked with Magneto to build Cerebro, while in First Class Hank McCoy builds it, though this is explained by "Magneto's Cerebro" being a completely different design from "McCoy's Cerebro".
In X-Men: The Last Stand, Moira MacTaggert is portrayed as being a British Doctor while in First Class she is an American CIA agent. This is explained by the fact that X-Men: The Last Stand's geneticist is only referred to as "Moira ", which can be a coincidental first name only.

Most of these are easily explained and are just from the makers being retarded.

Bacon was a powerful villain who won't soon be forgotten.

I couldn't disagree more.



I want a X4 with Apocalypse played by Mark Strong, an asian ninja Psylocke, the return of Gambit, and Archangel. Maybe even Apocalypse using Phoenix.

 

[Ice]

Magneto has at times come back with Charles and helped with the school in the comics, even after their splitting up. So wouldn't be surprising if that happens in the movies as well.

Plus, Magneto's costume at the end of the movie is what he also had in the comics around the first time or so he came back to help with the school, just minus the giant M.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

None of these continuity issues are gonna be resolved. And for the first time that doesn't bother me. I hope they say reboot in the future but for now I'd like to see more reviews from the members as to what they thought about the movie itself

 

[Gothamite]

Nothing really bothers me continuity-wise, except for the flashbacks in X3 and Wolverine, where we saw Professor X walking. Those are the one, unignorable thing for me that sets this movie apart.

Still, I'm inclined to just have a "How I Met Your Mother" stance on continuity on these movies and just say that it's somebody telling one big story and they're remembering certain parts of it wrong.

 

[Hellsbuttmonkey]

X3 Fair enough, it was crap but was properly part of the series, but Wolverine?

That movie should be ignored anyway so screw seeing Prof walking in that. They made him look like a creepy cult leader/child molester anyway. Seriously I hate that movie so much. (don't start ranting about Deadpool.... don't start ranting about Deadpool...)


Anyway, even with the continuity issues (most of which are easily ignorable), X-Men:FC was a very worthy addition to the franchise with some outstanding moments. Outdoes all the other films by miles with the exception of X2, of which I am undecided.

 

[Planet-man]

I want a X4 with Apocalypse played by Mark Strong, an asian ninja Psylocke, the return of Gambit, and Archangel. Maybe even Apocalypse using Phoenix.

I'd be down for all that, except for Mark Strong as Apocalypse. He's already the villain in literally every other movie and it's starting to wear.

Nothing really bothers me continuity-wise, except for the flashbacks in X3 and Wolverine, where we saw Professor X walking. Those are the one, unignorable thing for me that sets this movie apart.

Still, I'm inclined to just have a "How I Met Your Mother" stance on continuity on these movies and just say that it's somebody telling one big story and they're remembering certain parts of it wrong.

Yeah, Wolverine aside, I was pretty sure Xavier walked in the X3 opening flashback(but not 100%). I didn't think we'd see him get paralyzed in First Class either way, and was really surprised when we did, but I think the way it happened was very satisfying and well worth the canon confusion.

 

[DIrishB]

I was really delighted that this wasn't a reboot. That's all I have to say about that.

I have to agree, mainly because at this point, "Reboot" has become synonomous with "the easy approach", and there are far too many already.

Loved it. Magneto, Xavier and their relationship and development was all great. Loved Wolverine's surprise cameo, and Romijn's. Loved the opening recreation and continuation of the Auschwitz opening from X1. Bacon was a powerful villain who won't soon be forgotten. The young Erik blowout seen was really corny and I was worried it was gonna be another Wolverine, but it rapidly turned into something on par with a great Bond film. All the 60s mod-ish stuff(and I disagree about it being in short supply) was also so much fun. 9/10, best X-film after X2. It didn't feel rushed to me.

Was X2 really so great? I haven't seen it since it first came out on DVD, so its been close to ten years. I enjoyed it, but a lot of people seem to view it as the seminal X-film (especially in regards to compared to First Class), and I just wonder what specifically they found so awesome about it. Again, its been awhile, so maybe I just need to re-watch it.

And thank God it wasn't a reboot.

Full agreement.

The annoying is it's trying to be a prequel and a reboot but it's neither of them.

Is there a third option? I mean, doesn't it really have to be one or the other when going down that pigeon-holed road?

I want a X4 with Apocalypse played by Mark Strong, an asian ninja Psylocke, the return of Gambit, and Archangel. Maybe even Apocalypse using Phoenix.

So you want an X-Men movie that basically evokes the Claremont, early 90's era X-Men stories?

 

[Planet-man]

Was X2 really so great? I haven't seen it since it first came out on DVD, so its been close to ten years. I enjoyed it, but a lot of people seem to view it as the seminal X-film (especially in regards to compared to First Class), and I just wonder what specifically they found so awesome about it. Again, its been awhile, so maybe I just need to re-watch it.

To me it's basically a perfect film, and one of the three or four most thrilling superhero films ever. The direction, story, pacing, acting, editing, music, etc are all ridiculously satisfying and the plethora of kick-ass character moments are almost matchless outside of Lord of the Rings. Magneto breaking out of prison is still one of the best movie scenes of all time.

 

[bluebeast]

Just saw this and really liked it. I think I'd put it above Thor but that's because I'm a bit biased towards the X-Men. Compared to the rest of the series I think this is pretty close in quality to the first two and is a welcome addition to the series.

Thoughts on the Characters:

I can tell they took a lot of this from the Magneto spin-off because Fassbender as Magneto owned this movie. Every scene with him was good.
Same goes for MacAvoy as Xavier, the two of them did a great job pulling in parts of McKellan and Stewart's performances while making seem fresh after a decade of these characters.
Beast was done about as right as you could do him and his transformation went really well in my opinion. Mystique was also pretty good.
Havok and Banshee were both great characters and I hope they get more time to shine in a sequel.
I think the use of Azazel and Riptide was perfect in that they worked as great visual action pieces while not bogging down any of the story. I expect Azazel to be more prominent in the sequels.
Bacon as Sebastian Shaw was great as expected with him and I thought his powers were utilized better than they ever have been in the comics.
I'm not going to knock January Jones as Emma Frost mostly because I just don't think she was given enough stuff to do. Emma has to be a commanding force and I can see her and Magneto clashing in a sequel with her maybe even joining the X-Men.
Darwin and Angel were just unnecessary. It could have greatly cleared up space if they'd not been there at all.

Best Moments:

Anything with Erik hunting down Nazis.
All of the kids partying and testing out their powers and codenames.
Wolverine's cameo.
The Hellfire Club's attack on the CIA
Beast and Mystique's scenes.
Beast's transformation

I think this was a great addition to the franchise overall and a promising start to a new series. Four stars.

 

[Captain Canuck]

I just saw it. It was good. I gave it four stars. I really liked the way they embraced the 60s spy movie feel. My main issue with it was that it felt a bit long at the end. I also thought Beast's fur/makeup didn't look very good.

The continuity errors weren't a big deal. You always ignore throw away cameos (Storm in First Class, Shaw & Hank McCoy in X2). The Emma in Wolverine was very different from the Emma in Wolverine and she is never called Emma Frost in the movie (she's credited as "Kayla's sister/Emma"). Clearly she was meant to be Emma Frost, but for the sake of continuity you can pretend she's not. The only two that seem like they might be problems are Havok's age and who built Cerebro (as well as the helmet - Xavier says Magneto can block cerebro b/c he helped build it, but he only has the helmet (which blocks cerebro) b/c he stole it from Shaw). But maybe Havok is Cyclops' dad in this continuity, and the cerebro/helmet thing is a pretty small detail.

 

[Planet-man]

The only two that seem like they might be problems are Havok's age and who built Cerebro (as well as the helmet - Xavier says Magneto can block cerebro b/c he helped build it, but he only has the helmet (which blocks cerebro) b/c he stole it from Shaw). But maybe Havok is Cyclops' dad in this continuity, and the cerebro/helmet thing is a pretty small detail.

Again, the Cerebro from the first trilogy hasn't been built or installed in the school yet. The stuff with that and the McKellen helmet will only become a continuity issue if Magneto never teams with Xavier or contributes to the school again, which I at least hope won't be the case.

 

[Gothamite]

Again, the Cerebro from the first trilogy hasn't been built or installed in the school yet. The stuff with that and the McKellen helmet will only become a continuity issue if Magneto never teams with Xavier or contributes to the school again, which I at least hope won't be the case.

I'm inclined to think that this isn't going to happen. The continuity has been muddied and it's not going to be changed for the sake of one (admittedly noteworthy) line of dialogue from a movie that's twelve years old. I stand to be corrected, but I'd say it's about as likely as Professor X inexplicably temporarily regaining the ability to walk, for the sake of matching up with the other films. This isn't Smallville.

EDIT: And then again, you DO have the problem of the 3rd movie's flashback with Jean Grey. Unless Charles and Erik work together again, that just totally falls apart. Hmm...

I can't believe Havok's age bothers anybody, whatsoever. Maybe it's his Dad, his uncle, or maybe Cyclops' parents are just really old and it is his brother. How is that a 'continuity error' when they haven't even established it at all in the story of the movies? Why does it even matter?

It bothers me a lot more that all of the international X-Men were made American for the movies (especially Banshee, who's the only Irish superhero in comics I'm aware of).

And I also think X2 is over-rated. For a movie that's supposed to be 'epic', it's 3rd act takes place in a really enclosed place, only dealing with a fairly limited group of people. We're certainly told the impact of what's happening, but we certainly don't see what's happening (as opposed to the first and third films, where we see crowds of terrifed New Yorkers). Barely any of the battles in the film are exciting. The movie just feels kind of cheap; more like a TV show (and not in a good way). The film also sort of suffers from Star Trek: The Next Generation syndrome in that the action would probably be a lot more interesting if you weren't constantly distracted with worry for the children in peril throughout the scene.

Don't get me wrong, I do rate it quite highly but in terms of enjoyment, it's sort of a non-entity for me. I'd go on the record as saying I far prefer the Wolverine movie to just throw in the DVD player and watch, even if it is a lot dumber.

I have to agree, mainly because at this point, "Reboot" has become synonomous with "the easy approach", and there are far too many already.

Yeah, it seems to be the fanboys' Number One wish, when an excellent franchise has a hiccup or two. There's really no need to ever reboot X-Men; it's such an expansive, malleable universe in itself that the most the movies should ever have to do is change are the actors (if they get too old, etc).

And I firmly believe that the X-Universe should be kept entirely separate from the other Marvel movies.

I do really hope we get at least one really good Wolverine solo movie before Jackman gets too old (which hopefully won't be for at least another ten years).

 

[Planet-man]

I'm inclined to think that this isn't going to happen. The continuity has been muddied and it's not going to be changed for the sake of one (admittedly noteworthy) line of dialogue from a movie that's twelve years old. I stand to be corrected, but I'd say it's about as likely as Professor X inexplicably temporarily regaining the ability to walk, for the sake of matching up with the other films. This isn't Smallville.

EDIT: And then again, you DO have the problem of the 3rd movie's flashback with Jean Grey. Unless Charles and Erik work together again, that just totally falls apart. Hmm...

The Cerebro thing isn't just one line in the first film, there're the plot points of how Magneto could both design a helmet to block it and send Mystique to sabotage its inner workings. In the second, Magneto and the X-Men have a conversation around the campfire about when he and Charles built it, and of course, he's able to single-handedly reconstruct it during the climax.

I can't believe Havok's age bothers anybody, whatsoever. Maybe it's his Dad, his uncle, or maybe Cyclops' parents are just really old and it is his brother. How is that a 'continuity error' when they haven't even established it at all in the story of the movies?

Exactly!

And I also think X2 is over-rated. For a movie that's supposed to be 'epic', it's 3rd act takes place in a really enclosed place, only dealing with a fairly limited group of people. We're certainly told the impact of what's happening, but we certainly don't see what's happening (as opposed to the first and third films, where we see crowds of terrifed New Yorkers). Barely any of the battles in the film are exciting. The movie just feels kind of cheap; more like a TV show (and not in a good way).

This is one of those things where I'm gonna have to say we just saw different movies or something.

 

[Captain Canuck]

I'm inclined to think that this isn't going to happen. The continuity has been muddied and it's not going to be changed for the sake of one (admittedly noteworthy) line of dialogue from a movie that's twelve years old. I stand to be corrected, but I'd say it's about as likely as Professor X inexplicably temporarily regaining the ability to walk, for the sake of matching up with the other films. This isn't Smallville.

EDIT: And then again, you DO have the problem of the 3rd movie's flashback with Jean Grey. Unless Charles and Erik work together again, that just totally falls apart. Hmm...

i forgot about that scene... hmm.

and also, the fact that Magneto helped build cerebro is more important than just that one line of dialogue, b/c in X2 he tells Stryker all about it and then recalibrates it to target humans.

EDIT: also, wasn't Xavier standing when he rescued Cyclops and the others from 3 Mile Island in the Wolverine movie?

 

[Ice]

Singer said in an interview that Havok is not Cyclops' brother in the movie-verse, but something else. He never said what it was, either.