Batman/Superman Anthology Timelines

[JudgeDreddpool]

If it wasn't obvious, Guggenheim is largely the reason why I'm that hesitant to get into the Arrowverse, since he's both a talentless hack and a misogynistic piece of ****.

 

[JudgeDreddpool]

Anyways, not gonna talk further about it. Am exhausted from IRL today, so not really in the right mood.

 

[Pro Bot]

honestly, I would explain all the retcons with the Crisis Events. It makes everything more simple and logical. Anyway this is what I think Happened to the Burtonverse and Donnerverse during their Years.

PRE-CRISIS:

EARTH-89
Batman
Batman: Returns
Catwoman 80th Annyversary
Catwoman
Supergirl 05X09

EARTH-96
Superman: Returns: Prequel #1
Superman: The Movie: Extended Cut
Superman II
Superman: Returns: Prequel #4
Superman: Returns: Prequel #3
Superman: Returns: Prequel #2
Superman: Returns
Superman III
Supergirl: Director's Cut
Superman IV: The Quest for Peace
Batwoman 01X09
The Flash 06X09

EARTH-97
Batman: Forever
Batman & Robin: Robin: Facing the Enemy
Batman & Robin
Batman & Robin: Batgirl: To Dare the Darkness

POST-CRISIS

EARTH-89/789
Superman: The Movie: Extended Cut
Superman II
Superman III
Supergirl: Director's Cut
Superman IV: The Quest for Peace
Superman '78 #1
Superman '78 #2
Superman '78 #3
Superman '78 #4
Superman '78 #5
Superman '78 #6
Batman
Batman: Returns
Batman '89 #1
Batman '89 #2
Batman '89 #3
Batman '89 #4
Batman '89 #5
Batman '89 #6
Batman VOL. 3 #135
Dark Crisis: Big Bang

EARTH-96
Superman: Returns: Prequel #1
Superman: Returns: Prequel #4
Superman: Returns: Prequel #3
Superman: Returns: Prequel #2
Superman: Returns
DC's Legends of Tomorrow 08X00

FLASHPOINT

EARTH-1/89F
Batman
Batman: Returns
The Flash

EARTH-96
Superman: The Movie: Extended Cut
Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut
The Flash

THE NEW 52

EARTH-97
Batman
Batman: Returns
Batman: Forever
Batman & Robin: Robin: Facing the Enemy
Batman & Robin
Batman & Robin: Batgirl: To Dare the Darkness
Catwoman 80th Annyversary
Catwoman
The Flash

That's how I personally view it. Also didn't do a Superman Earth in the New 52, since we don't know if Reeves's Superman or Ruth's Superman (or both if they are the same again) survived the flashpoint event).

Suppose we go with multiverse changes to explain how it's connected, and suppose we agree with Superman Returns SOMEHOW being part of the Donnerverse, I think this is what it'd look like. Personally, I prefer the idea that after Crisis, all main media realities were reborn exactly the same, just without the Crisis happening... but if we don't, then that essentially means none of the Pre-Crisis realities actually depicted the on-screen versions but rather identical versions of them that didn't exist in the same universe. See, that's why I don't like it, along with Superman Returns not fitting perfectly as a proper sequel despite Crisis being written as if it were.
(Vicki Vale and "caped wonders" were mentioned in Superman Returns: Prequel #4 so I guess that fits, but most likely referencing the unseen Singerverse Vicki and Batman rather than Keaton)

Anyway, that would look like this, just for scientific purposes. I'd rather separate the Donnerverse from Superman Returns and have those films as Earth-89 (which I will continue to do), but for argument's sake and because it's a fun topic:
Pre-Crisis
Earth-89 (Note: Events might be slightly different to what we see in the films)
1989 - Batman
1992 - Batman Returns
2009 - Catwoman
2019 - Supergirl 5x09, "Crisis on Infinite Earths: Part 1"

Earth-96 (Note: Events might be slightly different to what we see in the films)
1948 - Superman Returns: Prequel #1
1978 - Superman: The Movie: Extended Cut
1978 - Superman II
1980 - Superman III
1984 - Supergirl: Director's Cut
1985 - Superman IV: The Quest for Peace
2006 - Superman Returns: Prequel #3-4
2006 - Superman Returns
2010 - Human Target 1x01-1x12
2010 - Human Target vol. 3 #1-6
2011 - Human Target 2x01-2x13
2019 - Batwoman 2x09, "Crisis on Infinite Earths: Part 2"

Earth-97
1995 - Batman Forever
1995 - Batman & Robin: Robin: Facing the Enemy
1997 - Batman & Robin
1997 - Batman & Robin: Batgirl: To Dare the Darkness

Post-Crisis
Earth-1/Flashpoint [Batman/Batman Returns occur slightly differently, probably]
1989 - Batman
1992 - Batman Returns
2022 - The Flash

Earth-96 (Earth-789)
1948 - Superman Returns: Prequel #1
1978 - Superman: The Movie: Extended Cut
1978 - Superman II
1979 - Superman '78 #1-6
1979 - Superman '78: The Metal Curtain #1-6
1980 - Superman III
1984 - Supergirl: Director's Cut
1985 - Superman IV: The Quest for Peace
1989 - Batman
1990 - Batman: Resurrection
1992 - Batman Returns
1993 - Catwoman 80th Anniversary, "Now You See Me"
1993 - Batman '89 #1-6
1995 - Batman '89: Echoes #1-6
1996 - Batman vol. 3 #135 [Keaton scene only]
1996 - Dark Crisis: Big Bang [Earth-789 scene only]
2006 - Superman Returns: Prequel #3-4
2006 - Superman Returns
2009 - Catwoman
2010 - Human Target 1x01-1x12
2010 - Human Target vol. 3 #1-6
2011 - Human Target 2x01-2x13
2020 - DC's Legends of Tomorrow 5x00, "Crisis on Infinite Earths: Part 5" [Earth-96 scene only]
2022 - The Flash [Reeve and Slater cameos only]

Earth-97 [closely related to Earth-96]
1995 - Batman Forever
1995 - Batman & Robin: Robin: Facing the Enemy
1997 - Batman & Robin
1997 - Batman & Robin: Batgirl: To Dare the Darkness

If they ever connected The Flash (1990-1991) (probably won't happen since Dark Crisis states Superman/Supergirl are the world's only powered heroes, but Central City has been referenced in two Batman '89 tie-ins), I'd probably employ this logic. Lois Lane was actually referenced on that series, along with Superman and Batman being in-universe films, so that'd be interesting. Anyway, that's me going on an unrelated tangent.

 

[Jack Wayne]

View attachment 2730
I always thought it was weird how Superman Returns suggests that the Kryptonite from the first film was discovered in 1978 in the Singerverse, just like the Donnerverse. That literally implies that the original film happened in 1978 regardless of the 2006 setting. Maybe it landed and was discovered earlier in that reality, and the year just coincides with the first movie coincidentally.

View attachment 2731
I came across this old screenshot, lol. Marc is so dumb here, there's an obvious answer in that Lana Lang mixed up Clark's mom and dad. Clark planning on selling the farm before deciding against it... doesn't that same thing happen in Smallville? But, nah. His explanation was that Clark is a bad son and that's why Martha resurrects herself from the dead (???).

I think Marc's personal interpretation of the Pre-Crisis Earth-96 timeline was:
1978 - Superman: The Movie
1978 - Superman II
1980 - Superman III
1984 - Supergirl
1985 - Superman IV: The Quest for Peace
2006 - Superman Returns
2019 - Crisis on Infinite Earths

It's kinda funny to think about, because Clark goes to Krypton to search for survivors, meanwhile, in Superman '78, his parents are alive. Did someone accidentally step on the Bottle City of Kandor, so Clark left Earth to have a good cry about it? And no one suspects 71 year old Clark Kent is Superman despite his lack of aging, lol. I guess, in Marc's eyes at least, no one really ages, they just change their face.

¿?
So Lois is like 70s and looks like 40 years younger?
idk
that kryptonite thing in returns made me think that the timeline is this one
1975 Krypton explote
1978 Superman and the kryptonite arrives to earth
1996-1997 Superman The Movie (the only official statement about Clark age in Returns and the prequels is "over 21", they never mention that he was 30 when he became superman so that is a change imo)
2001 Superman II & Maybe Supergirl in the post crisis timeline
2006 Superman Returns
2007 Superman III (Fits with the 15 year class reunion of the movie)
2012 Superman IV
2013 The Flash Superman and Supergirl cameo
2018 Joker thing in metropolis
2019 Crisis
2020 End of Crisis

 

[ItzStitch626]

Human Target 1x05, "Run" (0:07:36 - 0:41:48)
Human Target 1x05, "Run" (0:07:52 - 0:41:54)
Human Target 1x05, "Run" (0:07:55 - 0:42:00) (Audio Only)
Human Target 1x05, "Run" (0:07:49 - 0:41:51)
Human Target 1x05, "Run" (0:07:55 - 0:42:00)

Are these mistakes?

 

[Pro Bot]

¿?
So Lois is like 70s and looks like 40 years younger?
idk

Nah, she'd be in her 40s/50s and look 20-30 years younger. Not quite as bad.

 

[Pro Bot]

Are these mistakes?

Yep! thank you.

 

[selfishmisery]

I love how Catwoman ends when Human Target begins in a Burton/Donnerverse shared reality.

I guess I can wipe Human Target off the Non-Arrowverse timeline thread.
Any chance Rick Springfield's "Christopher Chance" aged up to become Lee Majors' "Christopher Chance" in the 2010 show's 1st season finale?

 

[ItzStitch626]

I love how Catwoman ends when Human Target begins in a Burton/Donnerverse shared reality.

I guess I can wipe Human Target off the Non-Arrowverse timeline thread.
Any chance Rick Springfield's "Christopher Chance" aged up to become Lee Majors' "Christopher Chance" in the 2010 show's 1st season finale?

Flash and crisis has made everything so confusing. Shows and movies that were once not apart of the arrowverse have become a part of it. Well canon adjacent ig

 

[Pro Bot]

I love how Catwoman ends when Human Target begins in a Burton/Donnerverse shared reality.

I guess I can wipe Human Target off the Non-Arrowverse timeline thread.

That was a very interesting coincidence. Catwoman's little "I can be gooood" narration at the end of her film taking place the same day that Chance eliminates the suicide bomber is one of the random accidental details that can occur in these timelines.

Any chance Rick Springfield's "Christopher Chance" aged up to become Lee Majors' "Christopher Chance" in the 2010 show's 1st season finale?

Of course! It's just that it's not made clear in the show that that's the intent so I'm not including it, but since "Christopher Chance" is a legacy character, technically yes. There's only an 11 year difference between Rick and Lee's Chance.

 

[Pro Bot]

¿?
So Lois is like 70s and looks like 40 years younger?
idk
that kryptonite thing in returns made me think that the timeline is this one
1975 Krypton explote
1978 Superman and the kryptonite arrives to earth
1996-1997 Superman The Movie (the only official statement about Clark age in Returns and the prequels is "over 21", they never mention that he was 30 when he became superman so that is a change imo)
2001 Superman II & Maybe Supergirl in the post crisis timeline
2006 Superman Returns
2007 Superman III (Fits with the 15 year class reunion of the movie)
2012 Superman IV
2013 The Flash Superman and Supergirl cameo
2018 Joker thing in metropolis
2019 Crisis
2020 End of Crisis

Also, The Flash cameos, if we place them in 2013, cannot precede Crisis on Infinite Earths. This is because it's part of the Post-Crisis timeline, thus this hypothetical Earth-96 would diverge from 2013. I suppose that could be a reason why he's wearing the yellow colours in Crisis Part 5, because of branches. I still place it in 2022.

 

[selfishmisery]

Random factoid: Dr. Jason Woodrue is mentioned in the 1990 Swamp Thing show and does primarily monster experiments akin to his counterpart in Batman & Robin.

 

[selfishmisery]

Random factoid: Dr. Jason Woodrue is mentioned in the 1990 Swamp Thing show and does primarily monster experiments akin to his counterpart in Batman & Robin.

Also in the Fountain of Youth episode ("The Chains of Forever") - Anton Arcane literally spouts "BLOODY HELL! It's Batman & Robin..." sarcastically when Swamp Thing and his human sidekick pop up.

 

[selfishmisery]

Random factoid: Dr. Jason Woodrue is mentioned in the 1990 Swamp Thing show and does primarily monster experiments akin to his counterpart in Batman & Robin.

Also in the Fountain of Youth episode ("The Chains of Forever") - Anton Arcane literally spouts "BLOODY HELL! It's Batman & Robin..." sarcastically when Swamp Thing and his human sidekick pop up.

I'm arguing for Earth-97 btw lol.

 

[Pro Bot]

Random factoid: Dr. Jason Woodrue is mentioned in the 1990 Swamp Thing show and does primarily monster experiments akin to his counterpart in Batman & Robin.

Also in the Fountain of Youth episode ("The Chains of Forever") - Anton Arcane literally spouts "BLOODY HELL! It's Batman & Robin..." sarcastically when Swamp Thing and his human sidekick pop up.

So they probably exist in that show's reality, assuming they're real.

I'm arguing for Earth-97 btw lol.

Swamp Thing probably takes place in 1990-1993, so before Dick Grayson became Robin in the Schumacher timeline. Wouldn't really work too well probably.


Just some more interesting characters and places off the top of my head.

Hawkman (Earth-90)
https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Carter_Hall_(Flash_1990_TV_Series)https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Hawkman_(Flash_1990_TV_Series)
Thanagarians (Earth-89/789)


Hal Jordan (Earth-89/789)


Central City (Earth-89/789)

 

[selfishmisery]

So they probably exist in that show's reality, assuming they're real.


Swamp Thing probably takes place in 1990-1993, so before Dick Grayson became Robin in the Schumacher timeline. Wouldn't really work too well probably.

There's a "Thursday, April 15, (blurry year)" newspaper date in the series finale ("That's a Wrap"). That's about it. Could be 1993, could be 1999. The year is completely impossible to read.

I've watched the whole series and I looked for these dates.

 

[selfishmisery]

Hal Jordan (Earth-89/789)
View attachment 2745

Or his dad. If you wanna assume Earth-789 (by comic multiverse numbering) is post-Crisis/Flashpoint Earth-12 in the live-action multiverse.

 

[Pro Bot]

Or his dad. If you wanna assume Earth-789 (by comic multiverse numbering) is post-Crisis/Flashpoint Earth-12 in the live-action multiverse.

Interesting idea, though I think it was supposed to be Hal.

 

[Pro Bot]

If we're gonna go down non-canon possibilities, I always liked the idea that Steel could have been inspired by Reeve's Superman. There's no evidence for that of course, but it'd be neat.

 

[selfishmisery]

If we're gonna go down non-canon possibilities, I always liked the idea that Steel could have been inspired by Reeve's Superman. There's no evidence for that of course, but it'd be neat.

"It's hammer time"

 

[Pro Bot]

"It's hammer time"
View attachment 2748

"You ain't Superman!"

"Where'd he go?"
"The Batcave."

"I could be Robin!"

 

[Pro Bot]

Maybe Steel is in the Superman Lives Universe, lol.

 

[Pro Bot]

https://archive.org/details/supermanreturns00loui_0No one told me there was a Superman Returns prequel novel.

 

[Pro Bot]

Archive.org is being really slow and not loading all the pages. Great.

The novel apparently depicts Superman fighting a clone of himself (Bizarro) and Metallo. Bizarro could technically count as Superman fighting himself, as mentioned in Crisis, despite that actually being an intentional reference to Superman III. Nice accidental continuity though.

 

[woodlark_289]

Archive.org is being really slow and not loading all the pages. Great.

yes unfortunately they were a victim of a massive cyberattack a few weeks ago, theyve been working on getting the archive back up again, luckily all of the data survived but a lot of peoples information was apparently leaked

 

[selfishmisery]

Archive.org is being really slow and not loading all the pages. Great.

The novel apparently depicts Superman fighting a clone of himself (Bizarro) and Metallo. Bizarro could technically count as Superman fighting himself, as mentioned in Crisis, despite that actually being an intentional reference to Superman III. Nice accidental continuity though.

Metallo was in the Superman Returns game. Is that compatable or some alternate timeline?

 

[Pro Bot]

Metallo was in the Superman Returns game. Is that compatable or some alternate timeline?

Probably an alternate timeline, since that's concurrent to the film and it probably doesn't fit within the timeline.

Catwoman 80th Anniversary, "Now You See Me" actually fits better during the events of Batman Returns, since Penguin is alive seemingly. I think it fits well after "I am Catwoman. Hear me roar..." I would say.

 

[Pro Bot]

The Richard Donner Cut having that scene in the diner where Clark takes his revenge makes no sense. I don't know why they kept it. If that was a Donner scene I'm very confused.

The diner guy says that he's just fixed the place back up (after Rocky beat the crap out of Clark), and Clark tells them he's been "working out"... except they've never met Clark before in their life so why would he explain that to them? From Rocky's perspective, some random guy came into the diner, called him garbage and then humiliated him.

At the same time, it doesn't make complete sense to say that the theatrical cut is the new timeline created at the end, because that means that a bunch of characters happened to be in the same place at the exact same time at a later date, which is very improbable. Unless both cuts happened at the exact same time in-universe (in different timelines) I guess, and the ending of TRDC where everyone has déjà vu takes place pretty much immediately after Superman: The Movie? But this would assume that Clark completely forgets the previous timeline pretty much instantly, unless the version of Clark that changes the past gets erased from existence (because think about it, there would be a version of him that already exists in the past). The commentary notes that Zod could return since he's back in the Phantom Zone at the end as well.

I guess I'll just let the Donner Cut make no sense on it's own.

 

[Jack Wayne]

Also, The Flash cameos, if we place them in 2013, cannot precede Crisis on Infinite Earths. This is because it's part of the Post-Crisis timeline, thus this hypothetical Earth-96 would diverge from 2013. I suppose that could be a reason why he's wearing the yellow colours in Crisis Part 5, because of branches. I still place it in 2022.

These images best represent my theory on how Earth-96 could work.
Everything is known but post crisis as is known, some things changed like the kingdom come event, post crisis Joker failed to kill the people of the Daily Planet, an event that happened approximately 1 year before the events of crisis.
Maybe one more change could be the existence of supergirl.
Post crisis supergirl existed which would explain the cameo of Chris Reeve and Helen Slater in The Flash, this crossover took place while in the earth of Flashpoint it was the year 2013, it is not far-fetched that it is also 2013 in that universe that we saw with Reeve and Slater, since if it were Earth-96, it would make perfect sense considering that Superman IV happened last year.

 

[Jack Wayne]

https://archive.org/details/supermanreturns00loui_0No one told me there was a Superman Returns prequel novel.

uh, I'm pretty sure I've mentioned her at least a couple of times in one of these timeline threads, be it this one or the dark knight trilogy one for some reason or the original thread about the 4 Reeve movies timeline.