Avengers Avengers: The Initiative (Discussion Spoilers)

If I were running the Initiative, I would sort the recruits by their powers or what their powers could do. Here are a few of my categories:

  • People with super-strength and agility that are only enough to enhance their combat abilities. They can't throw a truck at your head, but they can break bones with a single punch. People who have abilities like Wolverine or Marrow, where they have weapons attached to their bodies, would be sent here. They would get intensive training in a variety of martial arts.
  • People who have "energy blast" abilities like Cyclops, Havok, and others. They would be trained individually by the source of their powers (sonic, concussive) and together. Target practice would be common, as well as showing them how much strength to use and how to use their powers in unconventional ways.
  • Flyers. Flyers would be sub-divided into those with wings and those who just hover. They would be taught stealth, how to use wings as weapons, and maybe trained in weapons that they could use in mid-air battles or drop on people from above.
  • Super-strength--real super-strength, like lifting up trucks and throwing them super-strength. This would be focused the most on control, on how to avoid environmental damage, and taking villains down quickly rather than trading blows and smashing into buildings, cars and people.
  • Magic-based heroes, like Wiccan or Nico from Runaways. These could be people who use magical tech or whose abilities are magic-based. They would also be taught individually. These guys would get the most training and be encouraged to study and learn the most. Iron Man would grovel before Dr. Strange's feet and beg in order to get him to come and check out the new recruits' artifacts and powers to make sure they and their equipment isn't secretly evil or demonic.
  • Technology based heroes. This could be people who got brains with their brawn and can manipulate machinery, people whose powers are based entirely around technology or suits, or normal people who want to join the Initiative as tech-based heroes. If the heroes have an alien artifact or something they don't know the origin of, Iron Man or Reed Richards would check it out. If someone creates a suit or artifact and a different person is using it, they would both come to this training.
  • Electromagnetic powers. There's an insane amount of stuff people could do with this. They would have to learn the science behind their abilities and figure out different ways to use them, both in combat or with machines. They also need to learn control not to zap people and learn how to expand their area of effect.
  • Super-speed. It always amazes me that super-speedsters ever, ever lose a fight. They would be taught to their full potential. Tommy Shepherd would be the first student to become a teacher with his lecture on "Blowing **** Up."
  • Telepaths. This is pretty self-explanatory.
  • Miscellaneous. Now, naturally every hero would go to several different classes in order to release the full potential of their whole range of powers and everyone would have to take martial arts classes. However, I don't think there are enough shapeshifters (for example) to justify a class for them. So, someone like Hulkling from Young Avengers would get an older mentor, either someone who's a shapeshifter or who has worked with a shapeshifter, and have special training with them.

Each and every student would attend lectures and classes on tactics. They would be trained on the most or least effective teams in history, watch videos of old battles that would be analyzed blow-by-blow by their teachers, learn about heroes and villains, and basic Marvel cosmology. ("This is a Brood. They do XYZ. Kill them at the first hint of aggression and don't let them near civilians. This is a Skrull. Skrull vary in motivations, so talk to them first. This is Galactus. If you see him, try not to piss your pants while screaming for the Fantastic Four.")

They would also get a few normal classes--science, math, history--but most classes would have a lecture or unit on how their subject relates to superheroes. There would be two mandatory classes related to this: a class on the psychology of supervillains and a class on law. The law class would tell when it's legal to kill someone, when it's legal to attack someone, working with the police, how to protect your reputation while maintaining a secret identity, and such. The philosophy classes would talk a lot about the morality of killing.

After learning the basics of their own powers, they would concentrate more on working as teams. They would still attend training on their powers, but it would be less extensive. Teams who had already worked well together--the Young Avengers, for example--would be kept together and encouraged to develop the dynamic of their powers. There would be special team lineups for each threat. For example, if Electro attacked a bank, you'd want a flyer because they wouldn't be grounded. In order to attack him from long-range, you might want a energy blast person, but not someone whose powers are also electric. Or, let's say a mysterious ship crashes to earth. Out comes a bizarre being that's large, likes to smash things, and is yelling unintelligibly. Maybe you want to send a technology-based guy to check out the ship. The creature has armor and doesn't seem to have human-like anatomy, so you'd send a super-strong person to slug it out rather than a hand-to-hand fighter. If AIM attacked, you'd put hand-to-hand fighters in place to battle their footsoldiers and someone with telepathy or magic to fight MODOK. They use robots and cyborgs a lot, so a tech guy would go. You'd send more people based on whatever threat they'd cooked up. Basically, for every threat you'd get a list of what powers and skills you need to beat it, come up with a team that could defeat it and have a good dynamic, and ring them up. Ideally, you would pick people who had trained together in the same Initiative facility and were familiar with each other's powers.
 
This is just all wrong. They're training them like they're Marines. You got Gauntlet yelling and screaming and calling them "emo boy." Now, I respect the Marines. I really do. But there is a key difference between superheroes in spandex and Marines. In the words of the great Gunnery Sergeant Hartman, "Marines die. That's what we're here for." Superheroes are fun, they're wacky because they stop wacky threats. They have to keep open minds. Marines are trained to be broken down, lose their individuality, and be molded into ruthless but strong-willed people. They fit against terrorists and enemies of that sort, but superheroes need to be individual and have their own personalities. It's how it works. Training them to be hard and ruthless, especially people with this sort of power, is not the way it goes. I won't be surprised if Trauma snaps and ends up killing Gauntlet. ("WHAT IS YOUR MAJOR MALFUNCTION, EMO-BOY?")

I think I'm going to get flamed for this post because I can't put my thoughts into the proper words here. I know there are Marines on the board (Doomie-poo <3) who maybe can give me some insight. Maybe they already have, since I didn't read this whole thread. I just think the Initiative is completely wrong, especially since you get the sinister "It never happened" stuff. I'm hoping around this time next year, there's a rebellion and the Initiative is destroyed. If not, I'm DC-exclusive, where there are the carefree superheroes of old, not soldiers in tights.
 
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This is just all wrong. They're training them like they're Marines. You got Gauntlet yelling and screaming and calling them "emo boy." Now, I respect the Marines. I really do. But there is a key difference between superheroes in spandex and Marines. In the words of the great Gunnery Sergeant Hartman, "Marines die. That's what we're here for." Superheroes are fun, they're wacky because they stop wacky threats. They have to keep open minds. Marines are trained to be broken down, lose their individuality, and be molded into ruthless but strong-willed people. They fit against terrorists and enemies of that sort, but superheroes need to be individual and have their own personalities. It's how it works. Training them to be hard and ruthless, especially people with this sort of power, is not the way it goes. I won't be surprised if Trauma snaps and ends up killing Gauntlet. ("WHAT IS YOUR MAJOR MALFUNCTION, EMO-BOY?")

I think I'm going to get flamed for this post because I can't put my thoughts into the proper words here. I know there are Marines on the board (Doomie-poo <3) who maybe can give me some insight. Maybe they already have, since I didn't read this whole thread. I just think the Initiative is completely wrong, especially since you get the sinister "It never happened" stuff. I'm hoping around this time next year, there's a rebellion and the Initiative is destroyed. If not, I'm DC-exclusive, where there are the carefree superheroes of old, not soldiers in tights.

I have much respect for the Marines and other armed forces, but they don't strike me as the kind of people who'd think of vacuuming up Sandman or doing one of the other weird, dumbass things heroes do that somehow work against villains.
 
I have much respect for the Marines and other armed forces, but they don't strike me as the kind of people who'd think of vacuuming up Sandman or doing one of the other weird, dumbass things heroes do that somehow work against villains.

THANK YOU. That's pretty much what I was thinking, yes. As I said, heroes have to be wacky and individual and keep an open mind. They shouldn't be ordered around.
 
THANK YOU. That's pretty much what I was thinking, yes. As I said, heroes have to be wacky and individual and keep an open mind. They shouldn't be ordered around.

In fact, in real life, warfare is one of the first things to change in a paradigm shift. Look at the birth of guerilla tactics and the weapons of WWI.

If I were writing this book, I'd have someone--maybe a minor background character, maybe someone new--who would be like George Washington (yes, I only know about American generals, blame public schools), who threw out all conventions of war and started redefining it. A Sun Tzu (there's a foreign guy! Who I learned about from Civilization!) of the twenty-first century, who would change war forever. The Initiative would have a strong theme of military ethical and philosophical issues around it as inexperienced, low-ranking recruits and the top brass view the new way of battle.
 
Dear God this book was bad.

It was so bad, it affected my ability to concentrate during homeowrk.

I thought I was having some kind of elaborate fever dream.

First, the good:
  • Beast!
  • I continue to like the kids.
  • Good Hank Pym characterization.
  • Pretty, pretty art.
  • STRANGELOVE!

And now, the bad:
  • WTF Nazi
  • Mr. President... cut and run. Don't risk death and the disruption of the chain of command during a crisis. People, carry him out kicking and screaming if you have to.
  • The hell? They just took these raw recruits, gave them laser rifles and jetpacks they've never used before, and SENT THEM UP AGAINST HYDRA WTF WTF WTF!
  • They still have NO IDEA WHAT TRAUMA'S POWERS ARE. Even after MVP died because of it, they didn't bother to find out what his ****ing powers are--and then they blamed him for their own incompetence WTF HATE THIS BOOK! This is just like what happened to Speedball and that Michael guy from Avengers who's on Omega Flight now.

Seriously, the big battle scene was the stupidest thing I've ever seen. I felt like my brain was draining away as I watched it. I'm going to assume that that's intentional and this is a condemnation of the Initiative, especially with the MVP thing.
 
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I really liked it.

They're not really blaming Trauma, they're still using him and giving him extra help to control his powers. They want him to succeed more than the others.

And "cut and run" is satire. It's not to be taken seriously as a story point.
 
I wouldn't say it's terrible, or anything like that, but it's just not terribly good. It's got the makings of a good book, but there just hasn't been any great story telling in it.
 
"Well, gee, for decades upon decades HYDRA and AIM have been trying unsuccessfully to use large amounts of stupid, highly-trained grunts with the aim of stormtroopers to attack, only to be routed by the Avengers or Hulk or whoever. I have a great idea! Let's get our own group of stupid, highly-trained grunts with the aim of stormtroopers to use as cannon fodder!"

"Brilliant!"
 
I gotta agree with Twilight.

This book is bad. It's not as bad as some other books I've read. But this is damn close.

The sad thing about it.....is that I get what Slott is trying to do here. I really do. He is trying to address the unadvertised fallout of the Registration Act---The Draft. These people might've registered.....but now instead of just being on file...they're being drafted. And with all the recruits seeming to be just teenagers (maybe 19 at the most).....they're forcing these kids into an army before their time. And when you do that, there's gonna be deaths.

And thats something the country isn't gonna like. Thus the cover-ups.

So yeah....Slott, I get it. I'm just not liking it. But here's the thing about this book. It's got potential. It does. Kinda like when they first introduced "NEW X-MEN: ACADEMY". The academy books kinda sucked. Now, next to Astonishing, the New X-Men is the best X-Book being published.



I also think that the art is totally wrong for this book. Caselli's style is too cartoonish for the subject matter being presented. They should've gone with someone whose style is more "serious". You know who I can see on this book? Larroca. His work on "newuniversal" is great and he'd be perfect for mixing light and dark tones of this book.
 
How could anyone think this book is bad? This is one of Marvel's best new books. The third issue is the best one so far. It focuses on Komodo, who fights Spider-Man, and you find out what Tony Stark did with the Iron Spider outfit. Now that Slott knows this is a monthly rather than a mini, the book can be able to breathe a little more, but it really doesn't need to. This is the total opposite of decompressed, written for the TPB stories (Mighty Avengers is CRAP compared to this -- and I'm a MA fan!), telling three issues worth of story in just one. Even Ant-Man can't claim it does that anymore. Big thumbs-up from me. And I hope WWH doesn't ruin the good things it's got goin' right now.

4.5/5
 
How could anyone think this book is bad? This is one of Marvel's best new books. The third issue is the best one so far. It focuses on Komodo, who fights Spider-Man, and you find out what Tony Stark did with the Iron Spider outfit. Now that Slott knows this is a monthly rather than a mini, the book can be able to breathe a little more, but it really doesn't need to. This is the total opposite of decompressed, written for the TPB stories (Mighty Avengers is CRAP compared to this -- and I'm a MA fan!), telling three issues worth of story in just one. Even Ant-Man can't claim it does that anymore. Big thumbs-up from me. And I hope WWH doesn't ruin the good things it's got goin' right now.

4.5/5

I thumbed thru #3 at the store and wasn't impressed.

I'll probably give this another shot after a trade or 2. Give the story time to breathe and grow. Maybe then it'll be worthy of my fancy.
 
The art is cool, I kinda like the story, but I hate some of the character. The Gauntlet is a ****ing jerk. Hell, everyone registrated in this comic is a jerk, but I still like some of the characters, except that Morpho rip-off, that thing should be shot down.

Anyway, It's good, not that good, but enjoyable. The only problem is that Slott is portraiting the USA as a fascist country.
 
Well I'll admit that the story has definitely gotten interesting with #3. I'm still not crazy about the art---but at least it's toning down the cartoonish look and adapting to the tone of the story.
 
I dare anyone to try and pretend they're training to be superheroes, not soldiers, after that sniper lesson.

But I admit it... I really liked this latest issue. Maybe they knew Komodo wasn't going to be able to beat Spider-Man, they just figured he wouldn't kill her, so it was a good opportunity for field experience. Of course, these are the same people who got MVP killed in the stupidest way possible, so I'm probably giving them way too much credit, but it's nice to pretend.

Komodo is a really great character. She seems really cool and I'd like to know more about her.
 

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