Emma Frost: A Fraud

*coughs* You're missing the point. A crisis response team is what Emma assembled, not a police force. You know, that whole pacifist thing? That's why I found the SWAT comparison amusing. Emma wouldn't have weapons. She doesn't believe in them.

I still believe that this whole thread is largely an exercise in futility due to the inability of people to separate 616 from the Ultimate Universe. :roll:
 
Well, it's not like it's unprecedented. Every character has roots in their 616 counterpart - it's the whole point of the Ultimate line.
 
UltimateE said:
Well, it's not like it's unprecedented. Every character has roots in their 616 counterpart - it's the whole point of the Ultimate line.
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Aye. But we've seen changes. Changes in origin (Ock, Hawkeye, Tony Stark, Venom, Carnage), powers (Wasp, Black Widow, Tony Stark again, potentially the Black Cat), personality (Xavier to a degree, Gwen Stacy, Dazzler), even who the freaking character behind the villain is (Harry Osborn, the lack of a person behind Carnage)... I really don't see why it's so hard for people to believe that Vaughn just cut through the crap surrounding Emma's origin and went straight for the good girl that we see as co-headmaster of Xavier's in 616 right now.
 
No doubt. But NO character has been completely reinvented. As long as characters continue to be rooted in 616 - which, again, all are - it's not unreasonable to expect that they will reflect that.

And especially in the case of Emma Frost, where (in 616) she is famous and has a constant struggle with her villainous past - one can't help but speculate when that side will emerge. If it doesn't, that's fine. Maybe Vaughan will never address that. Heck, maybe editorial wouldn't want him to in order to further legitimize her status in 616. But it's not unreasonable at all.
 
UltimateE said:
No doubt. But NO character has been completely reinvented. As long as characters continue to be rooted in 616 - which, again, all are - it's not unreasonable to expect that they will reflect that.

And especially in the case of Emma Frost, where (in 616) she is famous and has a constant struggle with her villainous past - one can't help but speculate when that side will emerge. If it doesn't, that's fine. Maybe Vaughan will never address that. Heck, maybe editorial wouldn't want him to in order to further legitimize her status in 616. But it's not unreasonable at all.
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I think it is mildly unreasonable in this case, where the only signs of anything potentially villainous in Ultimate Emma Frost have been invented by the members here. With the exception of her snapping at the one of the Secret Service members following the Sentinel attack in New Mutants, she's been shown consistently as a pacifist and a believer in human-mutant coexistence through education and integration. What we've seen of her school echoes that. So we're basing this entire thread on what's essentially one snapped sentence during a crisis, and perhaps the fact that she referred to her students as her 'hellions'. Come on, Bendis threw in that panel of the 'not crazy' faux Scarlet Witch in USM #81. You don't think any other writer at Marvel has a sense of humor? It was probably a tongue-in-cheek reference that they threw into the script just to get junk like this started.

I go into each Ultimate comic with an open mind regarding new characters, because I don't want to color my perceptions based on what I know of 616. I didn't think Gwen Stacy could possibly be killed off by Carnage, even after seeing it happen, because she never got with Peter. Being the popular girl and Peter's girlfriend was her primary function in 616. She hadn't fulfilled that yet. How could they possibly kill her before she had fulfilled her role?

Can you honestly tell me that we would even have this thread of the mutant who had met with the president and started the Chicago school went by... let's say, Rachel Green? Or any other name you want to pick? Until we see otherwise, and we have seen cases where writers do deviate from 616 to a good degree, that's essentially what Ultimate Emma Frost is. A new character, with her own power set, and her own personality.
 
jtg3885 said:
Can you honestly tell me that we would even have this thread of the mutant who had met with the president and started the Chicago school went by... let's say, Rachel Green? Or any other name you want to pick? Until we see otherwise, and we have seen cases where writers do deviate from 616 to a good degree, that's essentially what Ultimate Emma Frost is. A new character, with her own power set, and her own personality.
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For all the reasons I've said before, yes, I would believe that Rachel Green (presumably from Friends) would have ties to Magneto.

What she's doing doesnt make sense for a pacifist, and certainly doesnt make sense for a former pupil/lover of Magneto and Xavier, who has a grudge held against her ex.

Pacifists would care more when humans died. She only cried at the death of a Mutant.

And PLEASE address the issues i've brought up rather than throw out everything by glorifying a one-dimensional character unprecedented in the writing of Vaughn.
 
Why bother? You've made this entire thread based upon one sentence that confirms the existence of Mystique in the Ultimate Universe. A character that hasn't been proven to even be alive at this point, much less evil, in league with Magneto, etc. And now you're doing the same to Emma.

You seem to be rather insistent that Emma has a grudge with Xavier. Since when is parting ways due to a difference in ideology a grudge? I doubt Emma sat down and decided, "Grr, Charles doesn't believe what I do, I have to find a way to get back at him for it." She's dedicated to giving people an alternative to the paths Magneto and Xavier took, and that's exactly what we've seen her doing. We don't know why Lorna wasn't attending Xavier's, nor Alex. We just know Alex turned down the invitation. Perhaps Alex disagreed with Xavier's assembly of the paramilitary force known as the X-men, and that's why he opted out of attending. In that case, it would make perfect sense for him to join up with a mutant school that promotes peaceful coexistence. Northstar rejected it (that we can see) because of the death of Beast, proof to him that Xavier's policies weren't the best way to go about things. Roberto was never offered an invitation that we saw, but it would fit with his MO of being bitter over how the average mutant was treated. Emma was offering a way to become a peaceful ambassador between mutants and humans to improve communication and hopefully diminish hate crimes like the one his friend suffered.
 
jtg3885 said:
You seem to be rather insistent that Emma has a grudge with Xavier. Since when is parting ways due to a difference in ideology a grudge?
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Maybe you missed the bit at the end of Bendis' arc where she's flat out yelling at Xavier?

And frankly, you've said it yourself, if you don't like what you read, don't. So instead of just bashing ideas because you won't admit that there's more to it than whats been shoved right in your face, let other people do some constructive criticism, and perhaps more speculation. Because, let me remind you, THIS IS ALL SPECULATIVE. I know i'm probably wrong, but you're reasoning that dictates I must be is fundamentally flawed, and childish.

I'm saying there's more to it, and you're restating what i'm saying there's more to as a reason that there isn't. It's rediculous.
 
I have to agree with the good Doctor here - there's absolutely no point arguing about the existance of a speculation thread.
 
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