Emma Frost: A Fraud

Dr.Strangefate

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Anyone ever consider the reason that Emma Frost comes across as such an idealist to the point of idiocy is that its a front? It could have EASILY been Mystique the ENTIRE time...

Perhaps Mystique assumed the role of Emma Frost at the time of Magneto's capture, and has been building Magneto a new army...

I mean, if thats true we see where she failed the first time... Making an army of Mutants to protect the president (see Bendis' Arc), only to turn upon him on the moment of Magneto's escape.

And if Lorna Dane is Magneto's daughter in the UU... She would have been a part of the plan from the beginning. It makes perfect sense! In "New Mutants", if Polaris had been brought to the Triskelion, Erik would have been able to escape then... But Bush stubbornly refused, and Ms. Darkholme would have to return to her school in Chicago to figure out another way to get Lorna in there. What's the perfect way to get a superhuman magnet close to the most powerful superhuman magnet in the world, when he's locked up in a one of a kind Jail Cell? Have her kill a dozen people, so she needs to be put in the same Jail Cell. Did anyone else also notice that they've recently transferred a women who's entire skeletal structure is METAL into the Triskelion?? I see a plan here...

Her assuming the role of Emma Frost, another past fling of Xavier's makes perfect sense. Mystique, being another ex-girlfriend of Magneto, would have similar animocity towards him. And if Xavier is truly as trusting as he says he is, he wouldn't look into her brain out of respect, and she would know that.

My other major clue is that Emma Frost isnt telepathic in the UU, but can only become Diamond. Mystique does not acquire the mental powers of those she copies, merely the physical. Emma Frost has also been.... inhumanly humane and sensitive. Completely the opposite of the self-centered, *****y original character. Laughable, to a point... But now she has an entire SCHOOL of gifted students being trained to use their powers, and the motivation behind that doesnt make sense. A peacekeeper teaches peacekeepers how to keep peace, not how to hone the sun's energy into Sonic Blasts, or how to run faster than cars... There's definitely more here... And It also doesn't make sense that she has put Alex in the perfect role to WANT to fight Scott, if she's so peaceloving. Alex Summers hates his brother, and thats how its supposed to be...

Think sensibly, The X-Factor from 616 comics is forming with a Havok who wants to kill his brother, the uncontrollable daughter of Magneto, and an anti-X-Men Sunspot. Multple Man we already know to have been in the brotherhood, so if he shows upp... I mean. Yeah. The only one who doesnt fit is Jean-Paul, who I'd bet will leave the Frost Institute when he figures out its a cover-up for something more evil. (Especially if Sinister's involved from the Summers-obsessed perspective. It'd be nice to see him fixate on Alex instead of scott this time round)

Other proof, is that Bryan Singer loves Mystique playing the spy... and he's not going to settle for her to be in a side role... This would put her in the spotlight.

If some/any of this is true... Where is the real Emma Frost? And when is she going to come and kick Mystique's ***?
 

ProjectX2

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I haven't read these arcs yet, but damn, I think your on to something.
 

Dr.Strangefate

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ProjectX2 said:
I haven't read these arcs yet, but damn, I think your on to something.

Me too! I just hope im not convinced of this simply because I'm overly tired!
 

Ice

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Hmm....that's one hell of an idea. Who knows if Vaguhan is pulling that off, though personally, I still hope she's connected to the cat. But good thinking there.
 

Goodwill

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Wow, Strangefate, you have about as much time on your hands as Ourchair does and Compound did when he was still around... This is a great theory! Thinking like this saves me the time of coming up with ideas to either agree with or counter your initial idea. Awesome. :)

First, I don't doubt that Emma Frost has more to her. Mystique or not, Frost is keeping something from us. It's been so long since we last saw her... Sure, that time was spent setting up the Academy of Tomorrow, but I would imagine her character also changed in the process. Her word, as it were, was that she would return to help Xavier, which is something we really can't see her doing now after her explanation of the differences between her school and Xavier's. Things aren't adding up at this point so, to say that she may be Mystique isn't all that far off, and it's certainly a welcome conclusion to her character, but I'm not completely convinced. Emma wasn't around enough to reveal to the government that she had telepathic abilities because she was accosted after her little "show" and, not only that, but do you remember her reaction to Beast dying? She was horrified and even cried... For a stranger, no less. Would Mystique, who is cooking up this brilliant plan, really get going over a casualty? Hmm...
 

Ice

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Goodwill said:
Emma wasn't around enough to reveal to the government that she had telepathic abilities because she was accosted after her little "show" and, not only that, but do you remember her reaction to Beast dying? She was horrified and even cried... For a stranger, no less. Would Mystique, who is cooking up this brilliant plan, really get going over a casualty? Hmm...
Same reason why I dont think she is either.

Good counter-thoughts, GW.
 

Dr.Strangefate

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I think that it was a part of the scheme...

If it weren't planned, then perhaps its just because she is devoted to the Mutant Race. She hadn't planned on Mutants dying, she only wanted humans to die...

We don't know how old Mystique is...
 

Irish_4204

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I really like this theory, but what about Xavier's cat? Still got me thinking though.

What if Havok could somehow feed off Sunspot's solar energy. They did keep saying he was a battery. If so, he'd have the edge on Scott.
 

Caduceus

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Irish_4204 said:
What if Havok could somehow feed off Sunspot's solar energy. They did keep saying he was a battery. If so, he'd have the edge on Scott.
Are they not traditionally immune to one another's powers?

Dr.Strangefate said:
Anyone ever consider the reason that Emma Frost comes across as such an idealist to the point of idiocy is that its a front? It could have EASILY been Mystique the ENTIRE time...
Perhaps Mystique assumed the role of Emma Frost at the time of Magneto's capture, and has been building Magneto a new army...
I mean, if thats true we see where she failed the first time... Making an army of Mutants to protect the president (see Bendis' Arc), only to turn upon him on the moment of Magneto's escape.
Its not impossible. The only difficulty is that Mystique would have had to be impersonating Emma Frost and whoever was behind the project, or at least manipulating whoever was behind the project for it all to come together.

Dr.Strangefate said:
And if Lorna Dane is Magneto's daughter in the UU... She would have been a part of the plan from the beginning. It makes perfect sense! In "New Mutants", if Polaris had been brought to the Triskelion, Erik would have been able to escape then... But Bush stubbornly refused, and Ms. Darkholme would have to return to her school in Chicago to figure out another way to get Lorna in there. What's the perfect way to get a superhuman magnet close to the most powerful superhuman magnet in the world, when he's locked up in a one of a kind Jail Cell? Have her kill a dozen people, so she needs to be put in the same Jail Cell. Did anyone else also notice that they've recently transferred a women who's entire skeletal structure is METAL into the Triskelion?? I see a plan here...
But why won't the Triskelion take the same precautions for Polaris as for Magneto? The president and obviously SHIELD is aware that Polaris is a "magnet person" already, before she's even got arrested. So why would they not take the same precautions as with the other magnet person? Its too big a risk not too.

Dr.Strangefate said:
Her assuming the role of Emma Frost, another past fling of Xavier's makes perfect sense. Mystique, being another ex-girlfriend of Magneto, would have similar animocity towards him. And if Xavier is truly as trusting as he says he is, he wouldn't look into her brain out of respect, and she would know that.
I fail to see the connection between Mystique's past relationship with Magneto and a similar animosity with either Xavier or Magneto. She could have been one of the mutants that stayed when Xavier left the Savage Land (whatever happened to the rest of them anyway, I don't have my issues?). If her relationship had been with Xavier, she could have been an Amelia Vought-esque character.

Dr.Strangefate said:
My other major clue is that Emma Frost isnt telepathic in the UU, but can only become Diamond. Mystique does not acquire the mental powers of those she copies, merely the physical. Emma Frost has also been.... inhumanly humane and sensitive. Completely the opposite of the self-centered, *****y original character. Laughable, to a point... But now she has an entire SCHOOL of gifted students being trained to use their powers, and the motivation behind that doesnt make sense. A peacekeeper teaches peacekeepers how to keep peace, not how to hone the sun's energy into Sonic Blasts, or how to run faster than cars... There's definitely more here... And It also doesn't make sense that she has put Alex in the perfect role to WANT to fight Scott, if she's so peaceloving. Alex Summers hates his brother, and thats how its supposed to be...
Emma has a little more depth to her than a vicious *****y cow. But Xavier was her mutant-teacher type person, as well as her squeeze. He's intimately (pun alert!) acquainted with her powers. If she's telepathic, Xavier would know and would almost certainly have picked up the different type of shielding on Mystique. Presumably, whatever keeps him out of Mystique's head (her adaptive body) and what keeps him out of a telepaths (mental barriers) are obviously different.

Dr.Strangefate said:
Other proof, is that Bryan Singer loves Mystique playing the spy... and he's not going to settle for her to be in a side role... This would put her in the spotlight. If some/any of this is true... Where is the real Emma Frost? And when is she going to come and kick Mystique's ***?
If its true, I want to read that showdown. Singer did emphasize Mystique's potential as a spy in the movies and I bet she'll be a central figure, but I don't think it will be an established one.

You've heard me poke holes dock. Give me a rebuttal.
 

Ice

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Caduceus said:
Are they not traditionally immune to one another's powers?
Yes they are. The worst thing they can do to each other is send another flying away, but never really hurt each other.
 

jtg3885

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Dr.Strangefate said:
My other major clue is that Emma Frost isnt telepathic in the UU, but can only become Diamond. Mystique does not acquire the mental powers of those she copies, merely the physical. Emma Frost has also been.... inhumanly humane and sensitive. Completely the opposite of the self-centered, *****y original character. Laughable, to a point...
To address the first point, we all know that characters in the Ultimate Universe has been shuffled. Assuming Emma was being honest (admitting telepathic powers would have gotten her chucked out on her *** because of Xavier's history with the White House), this could be another Black Widow or Iron Man.

To address the second point... so? We've also seen a much darker Xavier compared to the original portrayal. Does that mean he's been replaced by a shapeshifter too?
 

ourchair

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jtg3885 said:
To address the first point, we all know that characters in the Ultimate Universe has been shuffled. Assuming Emma was being honest (admitting telepathic powers would have gotten her chucked out on her *** because of Xavier's history with the White House), this could be another Black Widow or Iron Man.

To address the second point... so? We've also seen a much darker Xavier compared to the original portrayal. Does that mean he's been replaced by a shapeshifter too?
Agreed.

Besides, I don't necessarily think that seeing Emma Frost being a practical schoolmarm of some authority means that she isn't the catty little minx she is in 616. The two personalities may be very different, but they're not mutually exclusive of each other.
 

jtg3885

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Emma is very vehement about her methods and beliefs being different from Xavier's... anyone else thing Xavier himself may have a hand in this? After all, he has his fingers in practically everybody's heads. When he and Emma split up, I don't see it as out of character for him to have gone into her mind, and ensured that she would not be a recruiting threat to him. She's now attracting a totally different crop of students, ones that (with exceptions like Alex) Xavier wouldn't want anyways. While there would inevitably be some overlap of interests, he has ensured that there is no real recruiting threat to the paramilitary force that he's building at his school. Mutants who flock to Emma's Peace Corps would hardly be the type to join his Army, no?
 

Goodwill

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Well, yes, I do believe Emma is trying to make the distinction between her and Xavier's schools be the fact that she is all for education, not raising them to be soldiers, as Xavier has. For example, I believe she has admitted even homo sapiens to her school... Just the way she was talking about Babe Ruth and Mozart being two people with extraodinary power, made me think that there were regular kids there, too. This would mean that she's taking a more political approach as well, intigrating both chain links into one building. Whether or not Xavier has a hand in this, I'm not quite sure, but it's certainly something worth keeping in mind. Good thought, J.

Also, I think J got you, Strangefate, with that comment that said if we've got a different kind of Xavier, does that mean he's being replaced by a shapeshifter, too.
 

ourchair

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jtg3885 said:
Emma is very vehement about her methods and beliefs being different from Xavier's... anyone else thing Xavier himself may have a hand in this? After all, he has his fingers in practically everybody's heads. When he and Emma split up, I don't see it as out of character for him to have gone into her mind, and ensured that she would not be a recruiting threat to him. She's now attracting a totally different crop of students, ones that (with exceptions like Alex) Xavier wouldn't want anyways. While there would inevitably be some overlap of interests, he has ensured that there is no real recruiting threat to the paramilitary force that he's building at his school. Mutants who flock to Emma's Peace Corps would hardly be the type to join his Army, no?
Intriguing, and I wouldn't mind that being the heart of the matter.

But IMHO, that paints a portrait of Xavier being FAR more sinister the Ultimate editors would seem to allow, not to mention more sinister than even Millar has portrayed him to be.
 

Dr.Strangefate

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I have rebuttals, but little to no computer time. especially not now...

Grah! I want to respond, but need time! TIME!
 

Dr.Strangefate

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Irish_4204 said:
I really like this theory, but what about Xavier's cat? Still got me thinking though.

What if Havok could somehow feed off Sunspot's solar energy. They did keep saying he was a battery. If so, he'd have the edge on Scott.

Xavier's Cat was named after someone named Mystique. While it still could be Mystique, the shapeshifter's powers aren't all inclusive, she keeps the same body mass in all forms.... That'd be one HEAVY cat...

And I really doubt they'd change that important limitation on Mystique's powers...

Caduceus said:
Are they not traditionally immune to one another's powers?

No, their powers cancel eachother out. They can still hurt each other with the blasts...

caduceus said:
But why won't the Triskelion take the same precautions for Polaris as for Magneto? The president and obviously SHIELD is aware that Polaris is a "magnet person" already, before she's even got arrested. So why would they not take the same precautions as with the other magnet person? Its too big a risk not too.

I fail to see the connection between Mystique's past relationship with Magneto and a similar animosity with either Xavier or Magneto. She could have been one of the mutants that stayed when Xavier left the Savage Land (whatever happened to the rest of them anyway, I don't have my issues?). If her relationship had been with Xavier, she could have been an Amelia Vought-esque character.

It would take months to build another cell like Magneto's, what they're going to have to do is put them in the same general room... Polaris needs to be contained immediately. And What I'm guessing is that Magneto can use her abilities to amplify his own, in a similar way to the Flash taking the speed of other racers to run faster... Thats when he'll escape. I'm sure they'll put a separator or something in the cell, but they do NOT have duplicate anti-magnetism cells to use on a whim... They won't know that Mag's can use her to amplify his own abilities... How could they?

As for Mystique's former relationship with Charles, all we know is that they dated. The fact that they are NOT still together indicates that perhaps he left her when he escaped the Savage Land that night. If so, her loyalty was to Magneto, not Charles. I admit that this is speculation, but from Moira AND "Emma" we have seen that Xavier's former Lovers are not big fans of the baldy. When "Emma Frost" met with Xavier, her feelings of frustration and animosity were real, and his being polite would prevent him from looking further into his brain. Charles Xavier, not being an evil man, doesnt meddle in minds of his equals. He will do it to his students, sure, to make them cooperate (remember his conversation with Cyke, when he left for the Savage Land?), but only his equals in extreme situations, he didn't Instantly realize that Fury's mental blocks were there until he was withholding information from charles.... I refuse to see Charles as someone who is selfishly using his abilities. He is trying to make the world a better place, but he does what he feels is necessary...

As for the coordination requiring higher ups in the Government... We know that Weapon X is back in action, we don't know who they're working for. This person, or persons, could have organized Emma Frost coming to meet the president... We know that that wasn't SHIELD. Fury already has his Mutants, he doesn't need more. And Cornelius is too smart a man to think that Deathstrike could take down Wolverine, her being put in the Triskelion, and that being so clearly mentioned at the beginning of the first part of this arc, convinces me of its importance.

More later... (i'm supposed to be working :p )
 

Goodwill

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What's most puzzling to me is that Polaris and Magneto don't cancel one another out or create a paradox in the balancing act that the magnets play on the earth. Perhaps Magneto is banking on a catastrophic imbalance so that he's able to get out, but the whole Polaris/Magneto thing in the same room puzzles me... That's pretty much giving Magneto an exit door, even with a seperator.
 

Dr.Strangefate

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Goodwill said:
What's most puzzling to me is that Polaris and Magneto don't cancel one another out or create a paradox in the balancing act that the magnets play on the earth. Perhaps Magneto is banking on a catastrophic imbalance so that he's able to get out, but the whole Polaris/Magneto thing in the same room puzzles me... That's pretty much giving Magneto an exit door, even with a seperator.

But that's the scary thing about Mutanity in the UU. Its only been really public for a short period of time, and they REALLY don't know the science of it.

Putting two human beings in the same cell isn't that big of a deal, as long as they aren't killing each other, and when you need to contain two people with the same powers, and there's only one containment field... What else are you going to do? Put Lorna in a Normal cell? Break international law and basically stun her into complacency for the MONTHS it would take to build another one of these things? Kill her for not being able to control herself?

They'll put them together because they have to, not because they want to.
 

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