Enough Ultimate titles?

[E]

Does anyone see the pattern that whenever a thread is brought up about more Ultimate Titles, Daredevil is always the topic of conversation. Go ahead and blame it on me all you want but I didn't start it this time (or a few other times in the past).

This is true...

 

[Guijllons]

There is a difference between a walk on character and someone deemed important enough to get a proper outing.

The problem I see with a daredevil ongoing series is that it's just one guy, in a very small portion of the world.
I said earlier that spiderman works because of his huge rogues gallery and a general knowledge of the character and world surrounding him.
Daredevil can't justify a new title all to himself, I can't see any reason why a small town crimefighter (coz essentially that's what he is) would get involved with SHIELD or the X-Men or any of the other big boys. If maybe he did leave Hell's Kitchen once in a while he may be part of the bigger picture, but he's not. I can see spidey crossovers because of the kingpin. But that's a really limited contribution to the Ultimate universe on the whole. He works fine in the 616 universe as is, he doesn't need a re-invention apart from the costume. (Even spidey says he looks a complete tool)

What I was interested in exploring in this thread, was the idea that a group that has never been deemed important enough in the 616 universe to have their own title may be considered for one in the ultimate universe. A group that coup potentially have a large impact on the universe as a whole through what we know about them already, and expanding this into something that could absolutely work as a title. Something thematically correct for the UU that people have overlooked.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

The problem I see with a daredevil ongoing series is that it's just one guy, in a very small portion of the world.
I said earlier that spiderman works because of his huge rogues gallery and a general knowledge of the character and world surrounding him.
Daredevil can't justify a new title all to himself, I can't see any reason why a small town crimefighter (coz essentially that's what he is) would get involved with SHIELD or the X-Men or any of the other big boys. If maybe he did leave Hell's Kitchen once in a while he may be part of the bigger picture, but he's not. I can see spidey crossovers because of the kingpin. But that's a really limited contribution to the Ultimate universe on the whole. He works fine in the 616 universe as is, he doesn't need a re-invention apart from the costume. (Even spidey says he looks a complete tool)

Are you kidding me? :sure:

First off, You're whole argument about Hell's Kitchen... I don't get. Daredevil is a character, a single character. He's interesting not because of where but because of who. Not because of where he fights crime or who he's fighting but because of who he is and why he's fighting. Chew on that for a bit.

Why SHIELD would be interested? Genetically enhanced human being with abnormal powers. 'Nuff said. Look at RPG see my twist on it.

Enough with the costume. They (Ultimate Characters) make cracks about Spider-Man's costume all the time. It's a costume just like Superman's, just like Batman's, Just like Spider-Mans, Just like Captain America's. It's a comic book and there's meaning behind the horns and the name. I don't see too many people really have a problem with it. But I believe your scrapeing the bottom of the barrell with that argument.

Reinvention - I took care of that already in the previous post.

Look, when it comes out finally, just don't pick it up.

 

[Patriot Mk2]

Well we're due a new ultimate title this december.It was meant to be Secret last year(oh well...)and it was UFF in '03.Since Arrival is "due" this summer,logic dictates its a new ongoing this december.

 

[E]

Well we're due a new ultimate title this december.It was meant to be Secret last year(oh well...)and it was UFF in '03.Since Arrival is "due" this summer,logic dictates its a new ongoing this december.

And we know that Vaughan, Millar, and Bendis have something in the works...

 

[Patriot Mk2]

And we know that Vaughan, Millar, and Bendis have something in the works...

And logic dictates when a two person collabaration is mediocre a three person collabaration will be great :roll:

 

[René]

Look, when it comes out finally, just don't pick it up.

Thats right man. IF u dont want to pick up the book then dont. Nobody is forcing anybody to pick it up.

 

[Guijllons]

Are you kidding me? :sure:

First off, You're whole argument about Hell's Kitchen... I don't get. Daredevil is a character, a single character. He's interesting not because of where but because of who. Not because of where he fights crime or who he's fighting but because of who he is and why he's fighting. Chew on that for a bit.

My point about the locale in which he fights is that it's small fry, muggers, hitmen, extortioners. Sure he's an interesting character, but It's not enough to warrant a continuing title in the Ultimate line. He exists well enough in the 616. If they have a DD series, why not Punisher? then why not every walk on part character like the 616 does.

Why SHIELD would be interested? Genetically enhanced human being with abnormal powers. 'Nuff said. Look at RPG see my twist on it.

he's genetically enhanced? I thought he was just naturally more acute in his senses.

Enough with the costume. They (Ultimate Characters) make cracks about Spider-Man's costume all the time. It's a costume just like Superman's, just like Batman's, Just like Spider-Mans, Just like Captain America's. It's a comic book and there's meaning behind the horns and the name. I don't see too many people really have a problem with it. But I believe your scrapeing the bottom of the barrell with that argument.

I think you're missing the point. Cap America is supposed to be a costumed hero, it's a media gimmick. Spidey is a kid who doesn't realise how stupid he looks. The DC guys... look, I'm not gonna get started on Mr. and Mrs. Cape, it's too easy a target. If you consider that the Ultimate line is a more real life situation, the DD costume is laughable. If he does have his own series, then damn they need to update it, I wouldn't take it seriously.

Look, when it comes out finally, just don't pick it up.

I'll read it, and it will probably be good, but I don't see the point in making it when the 616 is good enough. Hell, the only thing that really needs to be looked at Ultimate-wise is the costume anyway.

By the way, you know you're obsession with the character is bordering on love don't you.

 

[Ricky]

What I was interested in exploring in this thread, was the idea that a group that has never been deemed important enough in the 616 universe to have their own title may be considered for one in the ultimate universe.

I think that's the problem. The way I see it, the Ultimate Line is there to reinvent the truely iconic characters. All of Marvel's icons are already covered the for main books, except possibly Punisher and Daredevil.
I think its impossible to look at the Ultimate Universe as something different than a line of new books about old icons. I think the main purpose of the Ultimate Universe is the possibility to do new things with characters that have become too iconic to be changed anymore. Just like UltimateE said, most characters don't need an ultimate book, because the same stuff can still be done in 616.

So, essentially we've two icons left: Punisher and Daredevil. Both might have worked out fine as ultimate books. I'm serious: Both characters are set in a world that's more real than that of most other super-heroes. The Ultimate Universe ought to share that very sense of realism. Punisher and Daredevil set in the Ultimate Universe could have been terrrific.
Could have. If they hadn't already been introduced - quite badly, I think. I don't know about Daredevil's performance in the team-ups, but I found the DD&Electra-mini pretty boring. The characters are not reinvented vers well, they don't have any real edge. I think the minis don't even count as continuity, seein how Bendis ignores them mostly.

But then, I think the team-ups have been a bad idea from the start, because I don't think any character ought to be introduced into the Ultimate Universe without a clear vision of how he is going to be used. The team ups just threw existing characters into the Ultimate Universe, without really reinventing them.

 

[E]

If you consider that the Ultimate line is a more real life situation, the DD costume is laughable. If he does have his own series, then damn they need to update it, I wouldn't take it seriously.

Agreed. I liked the black stealth ninja look in UDD&E.

 

[Bass]

I don't care if we get an Ultimate Arnim Zola ongoing series. It's not like I have a say in it anyway.

Just so long as it's good, I'll be happy.

But the idea that Bendis, Millar and Vaughan don't have enough time to write the book (hence, a "collaboration"), I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Ice]

Well, I don't care about that really. And also, It's not "Vaughn" its "Vaughan".

 

[Bass]

Yeah, I know that. I didn't even make a spelling mistake. You did. :shifty:

 

[supermusli]

Well, I for one read MK: Daredevil, and I love it. The character himself has been a favourite ever since Frank Millers run on the title in the 80:s.

That said, I really don´t see a need for an ongoing Ultimate version of Daredevil. Mainly because I can´t imagine anything being done with him right now that can be as interesting or good as Bendis is doing in the 616 universe. But if a good writer can do a good story, and do something different and interesting with Daredevil - then I´m all for it. I never say no to a good comic. But I don´t have a clue as to who would be able to handle that...

I think the following has been discussed here before, but I wouldn´t mind an ongoing ultimate title with a rotating cast of characters. It could be called Ultimate Adventures for example (and yes, I know that name exists, but it could actually work even so). The arcs could be 4-6 issues long, and with a monthly title, that would mean two arcs with focus on two different characters a year. Punisher could be there, as well as solo adventures with some under-used X-men (Nightcrawler, Iceman for example). Maybe an arc or two with the SHIELD agents from Spider-man (agent Carter, agent Quartermain and agent Woo). I would love to see those guy in an arc, with a more James Bond-style atmosphere. Finally, I wouldn´t mind seeing a solo adventure with Black Cat. A title like this could be used to great effect if handled carefully, I think.

 

[Nurhachi]

Well, I don't care about that really. And also, It's not "Vaughn" its "Vaughan".

Thats an awesome name

anyways, i dont think theres a chance of there being an ultimate captain america or wolverine ongoing series cuz there stories can be told in ultimates or ultimate x-men. the only area that ultimate titles havent got covered is the marvel knights area. How they would do that i dont know. possibly DD. As i said before i think he is the most likely, but i dont think its essential. I think its fine with the 4 titles that they have

 

[moonmaster]

Thats an awesome name

anyways, i dont think theres a chance of there being an ultimate captain america or wolverine ongoing series cuz there stories can be told in ultimates or ultimate x-men. the only area that ultimate titles havent got covered is the marvel knights area. How they would do that i dont know. possibly DD. As i said before i think he is the most likely, but i dont think its essential. I think its fine with the 4 titles that they have

I agree that cap and wolverine definitely don't need ongoings but I do think they certainly need minis (imagine wolverine in supercrazyfun modern Japan. It would be a great new take on his original mini).

I do think that DD should get his own ongoing, though. There's a lot to him. To the arguement that he doesn't have enough villains, maybe that can be an element of the character: He doesn't fight supervillains, he fight more realistic villains. And even though Bendis is doing a good job already with 616 DD, I think they should bring in someone new for Ultimate DD (if it happens) to give a fresh perspective on the character.

 

[thee great one]

(Ultimate Fantastic Four = science fiction approach, The Ultimates = geopolitical commentary, Ultimate X-Men = sociopoltical/sociocultural exploration and Ultimate Spider-Man = teenage drama).

Daredevil/Punisher=Law And Order

You have to give the writers a chance to make the characters different then they are in the 616 universe.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

My point about the locale in which he fights is that it's small fry, muggers, hitmen, extortioners. Sure he's an interesting character, but It's not enough to warrant a continuing title in the Ultimate line. He exists well enough in the 616. If they have a DD series, why not Punisher? then why not every walk on part character like the 616 does.

But it's enough to warrant his own comic in 616?

he's genetically enhanced? I thought he was just naturally more acute in his senses.

:roll: Again, if you know virtually nothing about the character why are you arguing about it? I should end the post with this comment because obviously you're not qualified to argue with me about it.

I think you're missing the point. Cap America is supposed to be a costumed hero, it's a media gimmick. Spidey is a kid who doesn't realise how stupid he looks. The DC guys... look, I'm not gonna get started on Mr. and Mrs. Cape, it's too easy a target. If you consider that the Ultimate line is a more real life situation, the DD costume is laughable. If he does have his own series, then damn they need to update it, I wouldn't take it seriously.

Agreed. I liked the black stealth ninja look in UDD&E.

Who cares about the costume? No one reads Spider-Man and says, "A kid in tights? This is awful. I'm not reading it anymore". And E, the black outfit is a nod to Miller's Legends run, it wasn't any ultimization. The Costume has already been established in Team-ups and UXM:Blockbuster.

By the way, you know you're obsession with the character is bordering on love don't you.

:roll: This, kids, is what we call a weak attempt to make me look like a joke so his opinion could be more solidified. Don't buy into it. I'm trying to look like I know what I'm talkin about because I actually read Daredevil.

I'll read it, and it will probably be good, but I don't see the point in making it when the 616 is good enough. Hell, the only thing that really needs to be looked at Ultimate-wise is the costume anyway.

Sit back and enjoy the ride, brother. It's coming.

I do think that DD should get his own ongoing, though. There's a lot to him. To the arguement that he doesn't have enough villains, maybe that can be an element of the character: He doesn't fight supervillains, he fight more realistic villains. And even though Bendis is doing a good job already with 616 DD, I think they should bring in someone new for Ultimate DD (if it happens) to give a fresh perspective on the character.

Ultimizing Kingpin, Bullseye, Owl, Purple Man, Typhoid Mary, Mr. Fear... I don't see how that could be as bad as Ultimizing Spider-Man's rogues, they're all stupid comic book characters created so long ago that they come off as laughable. This is why the Ultimate Universe is made to modernize these characters. Stilt-Man and Mr. Hyde I put in fanfics and the role play I don't see why my ideas on ultimizeing them was bad (especially Hyde) but no one read my fic or even looked at what I was doing with the characters. Whatever the point is they'd work.
I'd love to see Bendis on Daredevil's origins but he already said it wasn't going to happen. Whoever they got would probably do a good job.

Go vote in the new thread so I can get a handle how most of you feel.

 

[Ice]

Okay:

1.) Spider-Man's costume is cool. Better looking than DD's, IMO.

2.) E's saying that the ninja look was cool. Not that it was an ultimization or whatever.

3.) I read your fic. I did tell you it was cool, remember?

 

[Thiraknut]

We only need five titles:

1. Ultimate Spider-Man
2. Ultimate X-Men
3. Ultimates
4. Ultimate Fantastic Four
5. Ultimate Marvel Comics Presents - this one could print all the stuff currently in minis, Daredevil stories, Hulk stories, etc.

I read UU because there's NOT upteen million titles like the regular MU. Keep it simple, keep it good.

But that's just me.