Hawkeye: Human, Mutant, technology?

[14rdb]

OK, yay, whatever, I mean I don't really care, if you want to, I don't need to know
TELL ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here you are: "...I said and still do say that people who ***** about a book they don't read, endlessly bashing creatives and editors and publishers without buying the book or before seeing the book. Just for sport, I believe are ****bags... if you buy a book or read a book or shoplift the book you can say any damn thing you want about it, but if one doesn't buy the book or read the book yet still *****es, I declare the right to call that person a ****bag."

Too bad you stole Bendis' thunder with your OSC zinger!

 

[DIrishB]

Here you are: "...I said and still do say that people who ***** about a book they don't read, endlessly bashing creatives and editors and publishers without buying the book or before seeing the book. Just for sport, I believe are ****bags... if you buy a book or read a book or shoplift the book you can say any damn thing you want about it, but if one doesn't buy the book or read the book yet still *****es, I declare the right to call that person a ****bag."

Too bad you stole Bendis' thunder with your OSC zinger!

So I get to rag on Card since I actually bought the first 3 UIM issues (and admittedly will buy the last two, and even the second series, since I'm an Ultimate completist). I don't have to like it though.

 

[Pandrio]

So I get to rag on Card since I actually bought the first 3 UIM issues (and admittedly will buy the last two, and even the second series, since I'm an Ultimate completist). I don't have to like it though.

Wait, I'm a completist too, well kinda, but I'm waiting for the trade. So, what if I'm still going to read it, what then Bendis?

 

[DIrishB]

Wait, I'm a completist too, well kinda, but I'm waiting for the trade. So, what if I'm still going to read it, what then Bendis?

Then you're just commenting prematurely, sort of like a too quick ejaculation, and thats never a good thing.

 

[Patriot Mk2]

So I get to rag on Card since I actually bought the first 3 UIM issues (and admittedly will buy the last two, and even the second series, since I'm an Ultimate completist). I don't have to like it though.

What a ****ing stupid way to waste your money!

 

[14rdb]

I don't really buy that. With the vast amount of extra nueral matter, he should be capable of more than just accelerated and enhanced thought processes, as I said stuff like telepathic/psychic abilities.

I disagree with this. Psychic powers and intellectual capability are treated as separate abilities/powers. Many of the most intelligent characters in the UU have no psychic powers and there are some dimwits that do. I don't think there has been shown to be any connection between brain size and psychic powers either. Xavier and Jean Grey don't have huge craniums do they?

I don't understand why there must or should be any connection.

There are also separate muscle related powers. To me it's similar saying that the Juggernaut should have superspeed because of his superhuman muscle capabilities. Or actually better yet, that anyone large and built should automatically have superhuman strength.

Now perhaps if Tony Stark was also destined to be a mutant psychic/telepath, all of those extra neural cells would make him an exceptionally powerful one, but he doesn't have those powers in the first place. What he was going to be is smart, and that extra brain matter has made him a genius beyond what's known in the real world.

 

[DIrishB]

What a ****ing stupid way to waste your money!

Better than on strippers and booze...wait, no its not...much cheaper though.

 

[Pandrio]

I know. But whatever. :cry: :? :x :lol:

 

[Nurhachi]

of like a too quick ejaculation, and thats never a good thing.

Im sure you know all about it

 

[DIrishB]

I disagree with this. Psychic powers and intellectual capability are treated as separate abilities/powers. Many of the most intelligent characters in the UU have no psychic powers and there are some dimwits that do. I don't think there has been shown to be any connection between brain size and psychic powers either. Xavier and Jean Grey don't have huge craniums do they?

No, but neither are Jean Grey or Professor X dimwits by any means. Just the opposite in fact. Which kind of backs up my theory. They might not have super-huge brains, but they definitly have higher brain functioning both in their intelligence level and their psychic powers.

And this isn't a good comparison to someone who's entire body is brain tissue. Based off Card's origin for Iron Man, he should be capable of all those things, since he has THAT MUCH extra brain matter. Unless he has all that extra brain matter for no reason, which apparently he does.

I don't understand why there must or should be any connection.

Scientific tests which study people with paranormal abilities (telekinesis, psychics, etc) haven't been shown to necessarily have "larger" brains, but they have sections of the brain active which in normal people aren't. Thereby, one must theorize that by having a "body full of brain matter" they should thereby have more extra-sensory abilities beyond increased intelligence.

There are also separate muscle related powers. To me it's similar saying that the Juggernaut should have superspeed because of his superhuman muscle capabilities. Or actually better yet, that anyone large and built should automatically have superhuman strength.

You have to examine the strength vs. weight/size issue for that one. While his leg muscle is bigger than an average persons (by far), so his is weight, so perhaps it evens out in a way that doesn't necessarily equate to super-speed.

Now perhaps if Tony Stark was also destined to be a mutant psychic/telepath, all of those extra neural cells would make him an exceptionally powerful one, but he doesn't have those powers in the first place. What he was going to be is smart, and that extra brain matter has made him a genius beyond what's known in the real world.

But isn't he a mutant? Perhaps not one influenced purely by nature (due to the influence of the experiment his mother was working on), but isn't his condition a result of a mutation? What I'm saying is that it doesn't take just "having those powers", but the brain capacity to be capable of them. And he surely has that with a body-sized brain. I'm saying that the abilities Xavier, Jean Grey, and other telepaths are capable of are a natural part of evolution, meaning given enough time ALL (or at least most) people would evolve into these abilities.

 

[DIrishB]

Im sure you know all about it

Only when your mom is in the room...she's hot, what can I say.

 

[14rdb]

No, but neither are Jean Grey or Professor X dimwits by any means. Just the opposite in fact. Which kind of backs up my theory.

But Reed Richards, who has an IQ far above Grey or Xavier's, doesn't have any of these powers and that discounts it.

Scientific tests which study people with paranormal abilities (telekinesis, psychics, etc) haven't been shown to necessarily have "larger" brains, but they have sections of the brain active which in normal people aren't. Thereby, one must theorize that by having a "body full of brain matter" they should thereby have more extra-sensory abilities beyond increased intelligence.

Now here is an area where we won't be able to go any further in our discussions because in my opinion truly scientific evidence supporting paranormal abilities does not exist in the real world, and therefore, I won't theorize on exactly the manner in which they work in the UU based on any such findings.

You have to examine the strength vs. weight/size issue for that one. While his leg muscle is bigger than an average persons (by far), so his is weight, so perhaps it evens out in a way that doesn't necessarily equate to super-speed.

That would be true in non-superhuman case, but his muscles' capabilities are far beyond any consideration of his (comparatively) insignificant weight. This is a guy who can throw several tons around with ease while likely weighing in at under 1000lbs (which is practically nothing compared to his superhuman strength level which defies real world logic). His leg muscles are not only bigger than an average person's, but many, many times more efficient/powerful -- much more so than would be explained by mass alone.

But isn't he a mutant? Perhaps not one influenced purely by nature (due to the influence of the experiment his mother was working on), but isn't his condition a result of a mutation? What I'm saying is that it doesn't take just "having those powers", but the brain capacity to be capable of them. And he surely has that with a body-sized brain. I'm saying that the abilities Xavier, Jean Grey, and other telepaths are capable of are a natural part of evolution, meaning given enough time ALL (or at least most) people would evolve into these abilities.

Maybe a mutant of sorts, just not one blessed with those particular powers. Some mutants are smart, some move things with their minds, some lift trucks, some throw fireballs, some turn to steel. None of it makes sense in the real world.

And again, the 'brain' outside of his skull is performing double duty (as skin, blood, tissue, bone, etc.) and is almost certainly not working up to the same efficiency as more specialized brain matter.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

The Tony being a mutant topic was debated already. Here

 

[DIrishB]

But Reed Richards, who has an IQ far above Grey or Xavier's, doesn't have any of these powers and that discounts it.

But then again, he doesn't have a brain the size of his body.

Now here is an area where we won't be able to go any further in our discussions because in my opinion truly scientific evidence supporting paranormal abilities does not exist in the real world, and therefore, I won't theorize on exactly the manner in which they work in the UU based on any such findings.

True, but with the little evidence (real or imagined) we've been given, thats the best conclusion we can come to. Premature, sure. But all we have.

That would be true in non-superhuman case, but his muscles' capabilities are far beyond any consideration of his (comparatively) insignificant weight. This is a guy who can throw several tons around with ease while likely weighing in at under 1000lbs (which is practically nothing compared to his superhuman strength level which defies real world logic). His leg muscles are not only bigger than an average person's, but many, many times more efficient/powerful -- much more so than would be explained by mass alone.

Very true.

Maybe a mutant of sorts, just not one blessed with those particular powers. Some mutants are smart, some move things with their minds, some lift trucks, some throw fireballs, some turn to steel. None of it makes sense in the real world.

Also true, but I think he still qualifies as a mutant, due to nature or not. And that still doesn't explain what the point is of all that extra brain tissue. As I've been saying, Ultimate Tony isn't necessarily any smarter than 616 Tony, and 616 Tony certainly didn't have a body full of brain.

And again, the 'brain' outside of his skull is performing double duty (as skin, blood, tissue, bone, etc.) and is almost certainly not working up to the same efficiency as more specialized brain matter.

Also true, but its still doing MUCH more than an average person's. Thats my point. I don't care if he only has a tad more brain matter (as opposed to an entire body's worth), the increased intelligence shouldn't be the ONLY result of that, hence the psychic/telepathic/etc references.

The Tony being a mutant topic was debated already. Here

Why aren't you a mod?

 

[ourchair]

Why aren't you a mod?

Because this place would become Ultimate Daredevil Central. :twisted:

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

Why aren't you a mod?

I think I have to be voted in.

 

[DIrishB]

I think I have to be voted in.

Tally mine for MWoF then.

 

[Hawkeye101]

Okay, so I read everything you all put down after explaining my points. And you all seem to be most upset by the continuity of it all. Okay, fine. That seems to be your only problem? Some of you are even beginning to admit the idea OSC has isn't bad it just doensn't fit in continuity. Sure, fine again. Now, I don't know how many of you pay attention to 'Comicbook News', but one issue clearly stated that Ultimate Marvel would explain the continuity problems with some of the UMTU and the rest of Ultimate Marvel. One of the examples they gave was Iron Man, as well as the Fantastic Four arcs, Hulk, and some others.

 

[DIrishB]

Okay, so I read everything you all put down after explaining my points. And you all seem to be most upset by the continuity of it all. Okay, fine. That seems to be your only problem? Some of you are even beginning to admit the idea OSC has isn't bad it just doensn't fit in continuity. Sure, fine again. Now, I don't know how many of you pay attention to 'Comicbook News', but one issue clearly stated that Ultimate Marvel would explain the continuity problems with some of the UMTU and the rest of Ultimate Marvel. One of the examples they gave was Iron Man, as well as the Fantastic Four arcs, Hulk, and some others.

Yeah, we know, we've been waiting on this since UFF #5 came out...its been well over a year and a half...and the continuity issues aren't the only reason I don't like UIM. Besides Card's bigoted personal political views, lackluster research on the characters he does, and nonsensical writing, the story is moving along with the same speed of a crippled snail (and thats with several multi-year time jumps in the first 3 issues). Like I said, I'll still pick up #4-5 and the second mini series since I'm a completist, and who knows, I might even like them (not likely based on the first three, but never say never), but as it stands now Card is a total hack in my opinion.

 

[E]

And you all seem to be most upset by the continuity of it all. Okay, fine. That seems to be your only problem?

That all is secondary. There are more than a few things that don't jibe with the UMTU issues. Those things can be addressed later.

I hate it because it is STUPID. You know, the part about his brain growing throughout his entire body because his mommy was bit by a monkey? That part. Dumb dumb dumb.