Hawkeye's Revenge (Ults. 2 spoilers) [sensitive matter]

[compound]

While on the subject of Hawkeye exacting revenge on Widow, I'd like to express my faith in Millar not to even imply rape as part of the payback deal.

Yes, she probably deserves it more than any other female comic character who has been subjected to it EVER, quite frankly.

And yes, it IS a crime of violence rather than a crime of passion.

But not only would it be horribly out of character for Hawkeye (torture-induced trauma notwithstanding) it would just needlessly amp up the gratuity level beyond what it's already reached by showing the ostensible Good Guys to be not above the same level of depravity as the designated antagonists.

Do you think Millar and Hitch would go there?

 

[MoS]

Re: The 'R' Word

While on the subject of Hawkeye exacting revenge on Widow, I'd like to express my faith in Millar not to even imply rape as part of the payback deal.

Yes, she probably deserves it more than any other female comic character who has been subjected to it EVER, quite frankly.

And yes, it IS a crime of violence rather than a crime of passion.

But not only would it be horribly out of character for Hawkeye (torture-induced trauma notwithstanding) it would just needlessly amp up the gratuity level beyond what it's already reached by showing the ostensible Good Guys to be not above the same level of depravity as the designated antagonists.

Do you think Millar and Hitch would go there?

Have you read Millar's The Authority run?

But, no, I don't think that'll happen, not in a Marvel comic, and not by one of the "heroes"

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

Re: The 'R' Word

While on the subject of Hawkeye exacting revenge on Widow, I'd like to express my faith in Millar not to even imply rape as part of the payback deal.

Yes, she probably deserves it more than any other female comic character who has been subjected to it EVER, quite frankly.

And yes, it IS a crime of violence rather than a crime of passion.

But not only would it be horribly out of character for Hawkeye (torture-induced trauma notwithstanding) it would just needlessly amp up the gratuity level beyond what it's already reached by showing the ostensible Good Guys to be not above the same level of depravity as the designated antagonists.

Do you think Millar and Hitch would go there?

What the?! No. Who said anything about Rape?

And I don't think Widow will die either. She's gonna be locked up. She'll be asked "Why did you do it" She'll interact with Tony after Vol. 2, she'll interact with Hawkeye, and she'll interact with Fury. People want to see her stick her nose up to these people or breakdown and beg for forgiveness. But yeah, somebody losing it and killing her would be "kewl" wouldn't it?

 

[compound]

Re: The 'R' Word

Have you read Millar's The Authority run?

But, no, I don't think that'll happen, not in a Marvel comic, and not by one of the "heroes"

Yup. That's precisely why I brought it up.

I just didn't mention the specific context, because I didn't want to spoil it.

I have no doubt the idea has probably crossed their minds.

Spoiler

Heck, Wanted practically ends with the implied ***-raping of the readers.

re: Wanted

Spoiler

And incestuous devil-raping was the unfortunate "punchline" of the otherwise lovely Chosen.

re: Chosen

I was just wondering if they'd go through with it precisely in a Marvel title.

 

[E.Vi.L.]

Re: Ultimates V2 #9 discussion (SPOILERS!!)

Huh. I read The Authority. Don't remember a rape.

Only rape of a villain in a comic book I can think of is Mr Hyde raping the invisible man in the The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen Vol 2.

Quite shocking and, seriously, this was Hyde we're talking about so it was disturbingly in-character.

Don't see it happening in this case. Who would do it?!

 

[compound]

Re: Ultimates V2 #9 discussion (SPOILERS!!)

Huh. I read The Authority. Don't remember a rape.

Spoiler

Midnighter raped the Cap analog who was leading "The Americans", as revenge for assaulting Apollo, if I remember correctly. I'd need to read it again.

Don't see it happening in this case. Who would do it?!

A seriously pissed-off, vengeance-crazed, torture-ravaged Hawkeye.

Besides, what could possibly be more demeaning, as a psy-op tactic, than capturing Widow alive, and figuratively pumping her for information?

Excessive? Sure! But so are electrodes wired to a POW's testicles...

Yes, I did just go there.

 

[E]

This can continue because I know what compund's intent was, but it's being watched closely.

 

[ProjectX2]

I'd have more satisfaction with Hawkeye slicing off her head with a dinner plate.

 

[Entropy]

Re: Ultimates V2 #9 discussion (SPOILERS!!)

Spoiler

Midnighter raped the Cap analog who was leading "The Americans", as revenge for assaulting Apollo, if I remember correctly. I'd need to read it again.

Spoiler

Em, pretty close. The Commander raped Apollo (though that was all implied) and after Apollo takes out the good majority of the group The Commander was leading, he leaves the paralyzed guy at the mercy of Midnighter. Who appears carrying a jackhammer.

In regards to the topic of this thread, I DO NOT want to see it happen, or even have it be implied and I don't think Millar will go there. It would be totally out of character for Hawkeye and a completely demeaning to the entire story. Widow should be punished in a more fitting manner, and Hawkeye should have a more fitting revenge. I mean hell, if they wanted a far more terrifying and satisfying revenge, they should have a scene of Hawkeye standing at the caskets of his family, apologizing because he couldn't protect them and has to bury them. Then he turns to another casket and whispers in through an airhole "For you, I'm not so sorry". Of course, inside would be Widow and then we get a shot of him filling in her grave.

 

[Random]

Yeah it is definitely out of character for Hawkeye. Widow killed the woman he loves and he family, when he sees her he will probably think of her shooting his son. I cannot in any way see him even considering that.

 

[Friday]

Spoiler

See, now I didn't see any implied rape in Millars Authority, aside from the road drill, and even then it seemed like a creative and scarring way to kill the guy. The bit with Apollo and The Commander I didn't see atall, and I'll have to re-read it soon to see where you guys are coming from on it.

As for Hawkeye, I seriously doubt he'll be raping anyone. Will he kill Widow? I doubt that too. I'd expect him to do something similar to what The Wasp did in V1, wreack havock in the anti-ultimates base and then **** up The Corperal/Red Skull/Darth Maul since he was more than liekly the person impsersonating Cap in the assult that killed his family.

 

[ProjectX2]

The only rape scene I remember from the Authority was when that Commander guy knocked out the receptionist.

 

[E.Vi.L.]

Re: Ultimates V2 #9 discussion (SPOILERS!!)

I didn't think you did mean to offend, it was just with the description it was a little over the top.

That's how I do business!

But I guess I see your point. I was really posting a reply to Compound who is reasonably mature but who knows who was going to read it next, right? TGO? DirishB? Bass? This could have been ugly.

 

[E]

Re: Ultimates V2 #9 discussion (SPOILERS!!)

But I guess I see your point. I was really posting a reply to Compound who is reasonably mature but who knows who was going to read it next, right? TGO?

EXACTLY. Nail on the head.

 

[thee great one]

Re: Ultimates V2 #9 discussion (SPOILERS!!)

EXACTLY. Nail on the head.

...

why me? Why would I even joke about someone being raped? It's one of the worst things you can do to a person.

 

[E]

Re: Ultimates V2 #9 discussion (SPOILERS!!)

...

why me? Why would I even joke about someone being raped.

Laziness. You're too easy. Sorry man.

 

[thee great one]

Re: Ultimates V2 #9 discussion (SPOILERS!!)

Laziness. You're too easy. Sorry man.

Are you calling me a slut senor?

 

[E]

Re: Ultimates V2 #9 discussion (SPOILERS!!)

Are you calling me a slut senor?

Whoops - I didn't read your whole post and then you edited it. I didn't mean joking about people getting raped, I meant taking a joke too far. Didn't mean to imply you thought it was funny that people get raped...

 

[E.Vi.L.]

My opinion on the subject of the possibility of Hawkeye raping Widow is simply that it's out of character. One doesn't become a rapist just because he's pissed and we have no reason to think that Hawkeye is that kind of man.

I disagree though that this isn't the kind of situation that could be depicted in The Ultimates.

We already have a wife beating incident in this book, after all. And murder of a little boy. And an incident of cannibalism.

This book isn't really for kids.

But Hawkeye raping Widow would be just gratuitous and would have no storytelling merits as well as being out of character.

 

[thee great one]

Re: Ultimates V2 #9 discussion (SPOILERS!!)

Whoops - I didn't read your whole post and then you edited it. I didn't mean joking about people getting raped, I meant taking a joke too far. Didn't mean to imply you thought it was funny that people get raped...

It's cool. I have to have a funny joke to take it to far.