How to improve Ultimate X-Men

ThatOneGuy

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one thing that bothers me about ultimate x-men is that the entire lineup, which has taken 40+ years to develop, has been introduced in about 3.

i love the book, and i think that bendis does a great job writing it (as did millar for the most part), but it feels so rushed. the current new mutants arc compunds the problem. in the regular marvel u we've had, at various times, at LEAST 5 x-books to deal with the large number of mutants. in the ultimate universe we have ONE book to deal with almost the same amount.

i wish that things were being taken as slowly as in ultiamte spider-man. the reason that book does so well is that the pacing is very slow, which allows for complete stories to be told. it's just not possible with ultimate x-men.

in order to achieve the success that ultimate spider-man has, ultimate x-men would be better off right now to have just the core of the team - scott, jean, bobby drake, warren, and hank (although that probably won't happen now). it's just kind of disappointing to me to think about what kind of character development we could get if the book focused on those characters. add new mutants, sure, but do it gradually.

if there needs to be another ultimate x-book, do it. but fully develop the core before introducing a ton of new characters that they have to interact with.

i can appreciate that there are a lot of mutants in the ultimate u - but do they ALL have to be x-men? why can't charles's school be like it was during grant morrison's new x-men run - a large school with lots of mutants, not all good enough to necessarily be x-men but important (and able to be significant parts of stories) nonetheless?

i realize it won't happen, and probably can't - they're not going to just throw out a bunch of characters, but it could. something catastrophic could happen to the school and break up the team, leaving just the core, or something like that. mutants could join the ultiamtes or be part of the black ops, etc.

am i crazy and the only person who thinks this? thoughts?
 

supermusli

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I agree that Utimate X-men has way too many characters, that are introduced way too fast. It´s one of the reasons why I really never been into the X-men books. Where the Ultimate X-men feels like basically just a bunch of cool guys, Ultimate Spider-man feels more like a friend, and someone you really care about. It bothered me more when Peter Parker loosed a tooth in USM #58, than when Hank died in UXM #44.
 

Ricky

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I think the Ultimate X-Men urgently need to feel more personal, again.
Vaughan seems to be right on to that in his first issue (#46), after Bendis neglected it dubiously in most of his New Mutants arc.
I don't think characters were introduced to fast, though, but rather that we have the right number around now. Every single time I look at all X-Men assembled in one room, remembering who every single one of them is, I feel right.
In my opinion, only 6 or 7 main characters (besides the Prof.) were too few.

What is important, though, is for them to get screen-time, to develop on a personal scale. Just like they have (again) in #46. Let's hope Vaughan keeps it up.

What's also important is the Art:
We (me and a few friends) think that David Finch was the best painter Ultimate X-Men has had yet, and his art alone has made a lot of New Mutants worthwhile for us.
Peterson (came aboard #46) and Kubert (left after Return of the King) have been average, in our opinion, at best. It was okay to look at, but the art alone didn't make Ultimate X-Men worth reading. (When my girl-friend finished New Mutants and started reading Tempest todey, she actually cried out from frustration, even though the story had improved tremendously).
Then again, Chris Bachalo was the worst thing that ever had happened to the Ultimate Universe (next to the Team Ups) in my (our) opinion. (I remember the way my girl-friend read Ultimate War with her hand over the pictures, so that she wouldn't have look at them).

So, in my opinion:
Get Finch back, and the book improves
Get Bachalo back, and you'll lose an otherwise dedicated buyer

Ricky
 

Goodwill

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The book improved the second I read that there were hints that they were bringing in Apocolypse. Now that Magneto is behind bars, there hasn't been a really big baddie to contend with, however, now that they have both Sinister and Apocolypse, we're back on track. I also love to read whatever Vaughan does with this title.

Having all the characters doesn't bother me so much, they all just have to have some development is all. Some need to leave and others need to be killed off... Like, they all need a prolonged vacation away from the mansion. If that fails, just have an Ultimate X-Force title and we can see plenty of the mutants we want monthly.
 

E

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The book improved the second I read that there were hints that they were bringing in Apocolypse

That's not particularly what is doing it for me, but I agree and I think Vaughan is doing a much better job already than Bendis did with the book.
 

Blacksword

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Bendis' extended plot reads a lot better on second read. The way the whole run pulls together si quite nice, but really meant more for a trade than for monthly reading. And of anyone to kill Beast was probably the best choice as he was one of the most developed chararacters in the book so if there was a character to be cared about it would be him, Bobby, the professor or maybe Jean. I think the big thing about this book since its inception has been that it has been about plot and very little on character. And it's not that its writers aren't capable of doing it. Millar can be over the top and too falshy in his stories but he's done great character work in the Ultimates and no one can doubt Bendis work over in Ultimate Spidey. I think there's been an editorial decision to make Ult. X-Men the action/plot driven book of the line-up. Which I think this far into the book is a bit of a mistake as so many of the characters have been just sketches. We need a few single or small group of character issues slotted in between the big arcs as Scott, Colossus, Rogue, Kurt, Storm, of the main cast are pretty much sketches still. My dream would be do get Morisson for a few issues here and there as from what I've heard (and some synopses of his issues) his character work with New X-men was excellent, especially with Scott. There are some interesting threads being pulled my Vaugn in Kurt, Bobby and Rogue so I'm seeing a turn int he right direction.

Also working in some psychological baggage would be nice. 616 characters are all together much too well adjusted conisdering everything that has gone on in the MU in the last 40 years. Morisson was one of the few writers to draw on that, but without making them whiny wimps. The Ultimate characters haven't been through as much but they've seen enough that should really mess with any real young person. They don't need to be falling apart but characters brushing off near genocide, concentration camp experiences, being hunted by the government, etc is a bit much and like I said was one of the big things that annoyed me about the MU stuff.
 

Goodwill

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Well, there are all kinds of different art and writers so there can't really be a satisfactory Ultimate X-Men. I'd just like to see Vaughan on the title a little more.

Also, I also noticed that the book is more centrail on the characters, but not, you know what I mean? When Millar was on the title it seemed like we could sympathize for the mutants worldwide as opposed to what Bendis brought it to which was central to the mansion and SHIELD. There was a difference and I would choose Millar's over Bendis'.
 

E

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My dream would be do get Morisson for a few issues here and there as from what I've heard (and some synopses of his issues) his character work with New X-men was excellent, especially with Scott.

Have you read any of it? If not I strongly recommend it. It's an unbelievably good run full of surprises (esp. in the end). I couldn't care less about the X-Men before his run and now I've got about 3-4 on my pull list. Awesome stuff.
 

Goodwill

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Yeah, he would be interesting to get. I was possibly thinking to have Millar back an arc an then bring in Singer. Millar would set the mood and Singer would follow through. Since they are cinematic writers, each in their own sense, it would be a good team.
 

Dark_Images

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Perhaps it is still too early to tell. Singer's version would definitely have the team take a proactive stance, so Vaughn works in a little character development as well as some very big possibilities to take the title after he's done.
 

Goodwill

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Right... But I still think that Singer needs a transition because he couldn't pick it up at, say, New Mutants or the end of the Return of the King.
 

Goodwill

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As long as Singer veers away from the movie verse, I'll be alright. People didn't like Bendis re-introducing Ock to the mix because they thought it would just be some advertising scam... I don't want the entire title of Ultimate X-Men to become just that. BORING.
 

E

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I'm VERY wary of Singer coming on. First of all because Vaughan is already doing a fantabulous job just 2 issues in. Second because of something I read (Newsarama I think) that said that not only is he NOT going to be the writer (rather two of his screenwriters will be and he will be overseeing), but he wanted to change the title of the book to "Bryan Singer presents Ultimate X-Men". :evil: :roll:
 

Dark_Images

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I'm VERY wary of Singer coming on. First of all because Vaughan is already doing a fantabulous job just 2 issues in. Second because of something I read (Newsarama I think) that said that not only is he NOT going to be the writer (rather two of his screenwriters will be and he will be overseeing), but he wanted to change the title of the book to "Bryan Singer presents Ultimate X-Men".

Boo this man!
 

Goodwill

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Yeah, Singer's gonna be bad news to this title... Although that may be a joke, the "Singer Presents..." deal, I heard that he was going to make Ultimate continuity Marvel Movie continuity. Jesus, is he going to make Marvel cancel the title!
 

E

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Singer is not Ultimate material.

I don't know that we can say that quite yet, but the ego is bound to get in the way. "Bryan Singer Presents..." and he won't even be writing it? Ugh. :roll:
 

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