Is the Ultimate Universe just disgusting now?

Random said:
Don't lay the blame on Ratner, he signed up on the movie like a month before shooting began since Whedon had to bail. I lay all blame solely on the studio for rushing the movie out
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Whedon had nothing to do with it. Singer started, then Matthew Vaughn took over when Singer dropped out to direct the god awful Superman Returns. Vaughn then dropped out due to family issues and The Rat took over.
 
The Overlord said:
So you can like the X-Men, as long its more toned down and realistic? I don't think you hate the concept itself, just some of the more outlandish trappings that are associated with it.
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Sure. I don't even necessarily mind "outlandish" as long as "outlandish" doesn't mean "stupid." The concept of Sentinels and how they are used is remarkably stupid as is Corsair and a lot of the cosmic stories and characters.

The X-Men work very well when used as an analogy for civil rights and racism.
 
E said:
Sure. I don't even necessarily mind "outlandish" as long as "outlandish" doesn't mean "stupid." The concept of Sentinels and how they are used is remarkably stupid as is Corsair and a lot of the cosmic stories and characters.

The X-Men work very well when used as an analogy for civil rights and racism.
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Sometimes what is stupid is in the eye of the beholder.

The Sentinels were better in the silver age, when they were only 8 feet tall or so and could fit into buildings. That made more sense then making them 60 feet tall like they did in the 80s. Though the breed of sentinels from the 90s that could disguise themselves as humans was pretty creepy.

The cosmic stuff only worked once with the Dark Phoenix, otherwise cosmic stuff works best with FF and Avengers instead.
 
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All in all i hated Loeb's run on Ultimate's but with Ultimatum I don't really care... I've come to terms with the Ultimate universe as a melting pot for ideas that writers can't get away with in the 616 because of continuity... And my boy Millar's coming back into the fold and with him he's bringing new incarnations of Ghost Rider, Dracula, and Werewolf by Night into the Ultimate Avengers book... I dare any Nay Sayer not to buy that book!
 
The Overlord said:
In Ultimates 13, they do show Hulk eating Kleiser although it"s not as graphic as the Blob devouring Wasp. It also looked like Hulk was eating some of The Abombination after he punched his head off.
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Regardless Wasp deserved a better death that.

Kleiser was a throw away villain and red Skull rip off, he can have death like that, but Wasp was a recurring hero, someone with more of an emotional investment, she should have had a better death then that.
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That's the thing entirely. I see Wasp getting eaten by a character who rarely shows up (although I enjoyed him when Millar wrote him) cannibalizing Janet.

Janet. Who has this inferiority complex, who fought with her husband and had that really weird relationship with Captain America. Who loves to be out in the press but really feels down about herself.

...eaten by a B list villain in a ****ty crossover event comic.

It doesn't piss me off. It really dose disgust me.This is where all that went. Thanks for following this universe and this once good character.
 
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Foolsfolly said:
That's the thing entirely. I see Wasp getting eaten by a character who rarely shows up (although I enjoyed him when Millar wrote him) cannibalizing Janet.

Janet. Who has this inferiority complex, who fought with her husband and had that really weird relationship with Captain America. Who loves to be out in the press but really feels down about herself.

...eaten by a B list villain in a ****ty crossover event comic.

It doesn't piss me off. It really dose disgust me.This is where all that went. Thanks for following this universe and this once good character.
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Foolsfolly has a very good implicit point here.

Sure, Blob eating Janet is within the tone of a comic that has featured the Hulk eating naked Nazi spacemen. So neither one really contradicts the other in terms of outlandish. Neither one is more unbelievable or crazy or messed up than the other.

But the question is, what kind of storytelling do you accomplish with both? When Millar's Hulk is a cannibal, that's because he wants us to see how repulsive and uninhibited Banner can be as an unrestrained monster of a man. When Loeb's Blob is being a cannibal, it's just gross and makes no sense and furthermore, it's not 'unrealistic' or 'out of left field' to have Wasp eaten by a supervillain... but it does nothing FOR Wasp.
 
Out of the entire mess. I actually approve of Blob eating Janet.

I think it's in character for Blob to do. I think if Wasp vs. Blob ever happened that it would be the appropriate outcome. I just don't care who is a "b-list" "a-list" character death's a ***** and Wasp is no match for Blob (A terrorist).
 
TheManWithoutFear said:
Wasp is no match for Blob (A terrorist).
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Sure she is, if the character is portrayed by a competent writer and not made out to be a helplessly doomed heroine in distress. After all, in Millar's Ultimates, it was Jan's blasts into Hulk's brain which helped take him down. Strengths aren't all about heavy hitting.

What I'm saying is, it might be in character for Ultimate Blob to cannibalize someone, I agree with that. However, its completely out of character for Wasp to do nothing and allow herself to be eaten. I mean, come on, did the Blob really surprise her and get the drop on her? He isn't known for speed or agility, which seem like requirements to catch a mutant who can shrink and fly. Again, this is the same Wasp who helped go up against Hulk, played a large role in preventing the Chitauri attack on the world, and helped fight off the invasion of the United States. While not the "coolest" or "best" member of the Ultimates, she was a capable scientist and tactician. Being taken out by the Blob just doesn't make sense.
 
Not to jump to Loeb's defense, but I just assumed Wasp was knocked out, or even killed, and Blob just stumbled upon her and started munching down.


But I'm glad to see some of you guys coming around to my way of thinking regarding how wasteful character's deaths are.
 
TheManWithoutFear said:
Out of the entire mess. I actually approve of Blob eating Janet.

I think it's in character for Blob to do. I think if Wasp vs. Blob ever happened that it would be the appropriate outcome. I just don't care who is a "b-list" "a-list" character death's a ***** and Wasp is no match for Blob (A terrorist).
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Dude, the Wasp character deserved better then a cheap shock death then that, where she dies off panel. If she is going to die, she at least let her die with dignity.
 
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The Overlord said:
Dude, the Wasp character deserved better then a cheap shock death then that, where she dies off panel. If she is going to die, she at least let her die with dignity.
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She's a fictional character she doesn't deserve anything.

Not everyone dies with dignity anyway.

This Sucky Ultimate Wasp anyway.
 
Venom Melendez said:
She's a fictional character she doesn't deserve anything.

Not everyone dies with dignity anyway.

This Sucky Ultimate Wasp anyway.
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Except good writing rules dictate a character that has been around for as long as she has does deserve better then that. Shock value writing is a cheap substitute to actual good writing.

Tell me was the scene where Blob eats Wasp well Written and if so why?

In fiction isn't a dramatic and heroic death almost always better then some lame shock value death that happens off panel?
 
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The Overlord said:
In fiction isn't a dramatic and heroic death almost always better then some lame shock value death that happens off panel?
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Not always.

Writing a shocking scene is also an art, and even though I completely hate that it happened, I will say Loeb completely succeeded with this scene.

The rest of Ultimatum is poorly written, but he got exactly the reaction he was going for there, and so it actually was quality writing.
 
Joe Kalicki said:
Not always.

Writing a shocking scene is also an art, and even though I completely hate that it happened, I will say Loeb completely succeeded with this scene.

The rest of Ultimatum is poorly written, but he got exactly the reaction he was going for there, and so it actually was quality writing.
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I'm going to respectfully disagree - getting exactly the reaction you want does not equate to quality writing.

I wanted my friend to laugh, so I farted. He laughed. That just isn't quality humour, but he laughed anyway.

Given Loeb's writing, I even think this ANALogy is appropriate :)

There is an art to 'shock', I agree. But shock can be accomplished without art as well. Its what separates 'Alien' (IMO, a movie of 'accomplished shocks') from say Boogeyman 3, where the nature of the shock is, in part, a disbelief that they would stoop to that level of graphic ineptitude. Both movies sought to shock. Both did. Only one is good.

Loeb obviously stooped to that level of shock to generate talk - he knew he wouldn't be able to generate talk via a good story, or any decent characterization, so he settled for what he always uses - cheap, over the top garbage. If anything, Loeb accomplished what he wanted (buzz) by producing something completely devoid of creative quality. Even poor art would improve his work... as it is, you look at the pretty pictures and add 'what a shame' to his resume.

Loeb's basic premise is: I can produce boring, or I can produce 'shock'/garbage. At least the latter gets talked about.
 
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Blob eating Wasp's intestines out of nowhere is bad enough, but Loeb went on and made Giant Man bite Blob's head off afterwards. Then GIANT MAN dies. That's disgusting.
 
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You guys have to realize that the reason Ultimatum ever came about was because fans felt the universe was getting predictable and the reason for the Universe in the first place is to get new readers involved and give existing readers a breather from the 616 (most likely their bombardment of crossovers).

And as for people saying it's not right to off Characters that have been around for a long time I say that's bull****. The Ultimate Universe has only been around 9 years... they aren't killing the 46 year old Wasp we all know and love but the 9 year old Wasp that got a couple lucky breaks against The Hulk and The Liberators. As for the way she went out I'd say it was a crappy way to go. But then again her 616 counterpart went out like a ***** too... lol
 
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