Is UFF the nail in the coffin?

[Lynx]

Erm...and you don't think the US military would get involved if a foreign military decided to land troops on a Native America reservation? That, technically, is not US soil but a foreign country. Funny how I just don't see that mattering much.

No, I think it'd be equally bull**** if the US got involved with the Native American reservations because, hey, they wanted their own land, they should defend it. Yes, I know WHY Denmark was involved, doesn't mean I can't have an opinion either way.

Haha, funny one you don't got any idea what the free zone is m8. The free zone is REAL and it's called Christania. A place where some hippies live and doesn't pay their bills. Doom kinda build a camp there.

The Free Zone in the Ultimate Universe is called The Keep. And in the Ultimate Universe, The Keep is different then the real world Free Zone Christania. Becuase in the UU, Doom is the leader of the Keep hence everyone in it bowing to him and getting the tatoo.

It may be just my memory, but when was it said that the brain was growing through his WHOLE body?

I know it was last mentioned in UIM #3. The poolside scene.

 

[DIrishB]

There aren't any scientists currently working on time travel. That is a concept to far removed from what we can comprehend. That said, scientists have successfully teleported things (particles of light, I believe) and continue to find evidence that pushes the knowledge mankind had further and further back. For example, it has been postulated that the loss of all the writings at the liberary of Alexandria pushed back the knowledge of humanity anywhere from 500 to 1000 years. Three examples: the "computer" that mechanically determined the positioning of the stars; "batteries" discovered dating to ancient Eygpt - which is fascinating enough - but what did they power?;

Cleopatra's iPod?

and "primative" tribes that worshiped a second "dark" moon of two moons that circled a star thousands of years before it was "discovered" that there was not only a moon there but a twin that, due to it's orbit, is always shaded by the other. And I just heard about a documentary currently being filmed about yet another guy who thinks he's discovered the remains of Atlantis.

Another awesome post man, keep it up!

 

[DIrishB]

My real problem with UFF was the fact that Doom got away with all the **** he did. Come on not even in this little **** spot (Denmark) you can do stuff like taking over peoples brain and get away with it.

Look at some of the other villains in the Ultimate Universe. Magneto is an anti-human terrorist who is responsible (directly or indirectly) for the deaths of hundreds, if not thousands, of human beings. Yet instead of being executed he's been living in a cell in the Triskelion. This is also the case with most of Spidey's villains. Trying to apply real-world reasoning (even to the Ultimate Universe) is kind of a moot point. Point taken at least they're in custody, but none of them had Danish citizenship. Not worth keeping yourself up at night over it.

Also what about Ultimate DD? A blind man fights a freakin' Bullseye in a open spot, a woman in red thows ****ing ninja stuff after bullseye but does the police do anything about it? No.

Thats because the police of the Ultimate Universe are realistically portrayed, moreso thant any other aspect of the real world, in that they're incredibly useless and probably do more harm than good. But the blame doesn't really fall solely on them, more on the politicians who make the laws and pull the strings...its all a bureuacracy

 

[Ice]

I know it was last mentioned in UIM #3. The poolside scene.

Alright, thanks.

 

[DIrishB]

Alright, thanks.

Does the fact the Iron Man's brain is scattered throughout his entire body mean a punch to the stomach or stubbing his toe could severly brain damage him? I mean for this to really be a viable genetic mutation, you'd have to grow a relatively hard and thick exo-skeleton to protect your "body brain", while at the same time having it be flexible enough for you to move.

 

[Ice]

Does the fact the Iron Man's brain is scattered throughout his entire body mean a punch to the stomach or stubbing his toe could severly brain damage him? I mean for this to really be a viable genetic mutation, you'd have to grow a relatively hard and thick exo-skeleton to protect your "body brain", while at the same time having it be flexible enough for you to move.

Well, in 616, he made the Iron Man suit to protect his heart. Maybe here, his reason for Iron Man changes to protect him for that. Makes sense.

 

[DIrishB]

Well, in 616, he made the Iron Man suit to protect his heart. Maybe here, his reason for Iron Man changes to protect him for that. Makes sense.

True, we know the blue stuff is to protect him to some degree, and it also apparently helps him regenerate tissue (this was shown in UIM #3), so maybe even if he did get some brain damage, his brain cells would be able to regenerate.

 

[E]

Does the fact the Iron Man's brain is scattered throughout his entire body mean a punch to the stomach or stubbing his toe could severly brain damage him? I mean for this to really be a viable genetic mutation, you'd have to grow a relatively hard and thick exo-skeleton to protect your "body brain", while at the same time having it be flexible enough for you to move.

I kind of assumed that with that much brain, it meant that it *can't* be damaged.

Ugh, never mind. The story is so retarded I don't even know why I'm getting involved. It's off-topic anyway so lets not taint a decent thread with that crap.

 

[DIrishB]

I kind of assumed that with that much brain, it meant that it *can't* be damaged.

Ugh, never mind. The story is so retarded I don't even know why I'm getting involved. It's off-topic anyway so lets not taint a decent thread with that crap.

True, anyway, in terms of UFF and its out there story-telling devices, as had been said, thats the point of the Fantastic Four. Just wouldn't be the same or even a wortwhile attempt for it to be otherwise.

 

[ourchair]

Agreed. Was it ourchair that had that awesome description of the Ultimate books? Spidey was the teen/drama book, X-Men was the social commentary book, Ultimates was the political book, and UFF was the sci-fi/fantasy book. Fits perfectly and goes along perfectly with Bass said about keeping the right things in the right books.

Yes that was me. *Takes check from E* :lol:

I think this whole schtick about the Ultimate Universe being more realistic or "fixing it" so it becomes plausible is complete bunk. The elements of fantasy were always there, whether it was Peter Parker evolving from the bite of a drug-pumped spider or a bunch of kids gaining fantastic abilities from what is essentially a Star Trek-style transporter incident.

In fact, almost all of the early Ultimate stories were just badly plotted in spite of their "realism". USM's Power and Responsibility was just a badlly handled way of trying to have the villain and the hero develop in one arc. The UXM's Tomorrow People was too many X-Men elements crammed into one story, like some bizarre TV pilot. Even Ultimates: Superhuman itself suffered from some hamfisted character development (Bruce/Hulk in particular).

To me, Ultimate Universe is almost everything that everyone has suggest it is. It's not just an attempt to "fix" things. It's not just an attempt to shed decades of continuity. It's not just an attempt to make things realistic. It's ALL of them. But more than that, it's just an large-scale ret con. As such, giant sea monsters and post-humans born from top secret pharmaceuticals are all on an equal level.

As such, I hardly think that megalomaniacal space bats and a zombiefied parallel dimension is out of place. It just depends on how much latitude you're willing to give this universe, and I've given it a wide one simply because these are comic books. Hell, they're comic books written by Mark Millar, Warren Ellis, and Brian Bendis who are hardly known for their restraint.

However, I do think Fuzzy's got a point about Millar. I've felt like Crossover has almost all the trademark Millar-ism's that make it a good Millar story and not a bad Millar story, but the thing that is lacking is the kind of je ne sais qua that would give the zombie threat the kind of impact that the equally absurd Chitauri had.

As a reader, I recognize the threat, the insanity and the hopelessness and despair facing the residents of this alternate universe, but I don't feel it, quite possibly because Millar hasn't given us time to "live" within this parallel universe, the way he allowed us to recognize the magnitude of the Chitauri takeover of SHIELD and the massive fleet that clearly outnumbered the combined forces of heroes and helicarriers.

 

[Wamu]

Even mutants are more of a stretch, becuase honestly? What human genome would give a person the ability to emit concusive blasts from their eyes, or even manipulate magnetic fields? When I think of a real-world mutant, I think of people born with three arms, or an abnormally large head. And plus, if you really want a nail in the Ultimate Universe's coffin (Of realism, of course, not actual writing) look no further than. . .

GAH LAK TUS. :roll:

my take on this is that I don't care how extraordinary the situations are, as long as the characters are given good motivations and grow and develop over time. heck, I am waiting for Fin Fang Foom to show up.

I agree with you about mutants. with all this talk about realistic stuff in the UU, the mutants are a real stretch. for the must part they have beneficial cool powers.

and why is there is such a range of powers? it seems to me that a more realistic take would be a limited range of mutations. for example there would be people with limited mind reading abilities, able to pick up emotional states or with shaper than normal vision, hearing, sense of smell, etc. but not shapeshifting, super speed, lifting a ton, etc, etc.

 

[cmdrjanjalani]

Mutant "evolution" is pretty absurd. It seems established in the Ultimate Universe that the Theory of Evolution is indeed true, but it makes no sense why some guy would fire concussion blasts from their eyes, alter the molecular structures of things or allow someone control over magnetism. Shouldn't their "evolution" be a response to what they are facing in their environment? Doesn't really makes much sense.

 

[ourchair]

Mutant "evolution" is pretty absurd. It seems established in the Ultimate Universe that the Theory of Evolution is indeed true, but it makes no sense why some guy would fire concussion blasts from their eyes, alter the molecular structures of things or allow someone control over magnetism. Shouldn't their "evolution" be a response to what they are facing in their environment? Doesn't really makes much sense.

I think the fact that those particualr mutant powers are inarguably absurd is precisely why you can't argue that the Ultimate Universe is ENTIRELY about a grounded and realistic take.

In fact, UXM only started getting more down to earth during the tail end of Millar's run.

 

[Lynx]

I think the fact that those particualr mutant powers are inarguably absurd is precisely why you can't argue that the Ultimate Universe is ENTIRELY about a grounded and realistic take.

In fact, UXM only started getting more down to earth during the tail end of Millar's run.

Yeah, because once the PHEONIX FORCE was introduced in the middle of Millar's run, I was just like "Ok, what the ****". Don't get me wrong, I love the Pheonix Force, I love Phenoix as a character, I love the Hellfire Club. But it just isn't realistic. At all. :lol:

 

[SeAcoW]

The Free Zone in the Ultimate Universe is called The Keep. And in the Ultimate Universe, The Keep is different then the real world Free Zone Christania. Becuase in the UU, Doom is the leader of the Keep hence everyone in it bowing to him and getting the tatoo.

Okay that kinda makes sence. But I don't really understand why they would place it in DK? Just to say that this kinda **** happens here?

 

[vintsukka]

...it makes no sense why some guy would fire concussion blasts from their eyes, alter the molecular structures of things or allow someone control over magnetism. Shouldn't their "evolution" be a response to what they are facing in their environment? Doesn't really makes much sense.

On a long time scale, yes, the evolution of a species is determined by survival in their environment. But if we're speaking in terms of individuals, this is how evolution works: there are a vast amount of just random freak mutations, and the ones that can adapt to the environment will survive. This is how it's always been.

If there was some sudden dramatic change in the climate of the whole planet, for example, that doesn't mean that babies would automatically be better equipped to deal with it. But maybe there would be a few mutations who would handle it better, therefor live longer and have offspring, and maybe in the long run the whole species would change to better suit the new environment.

I hope I'm making sense here, I don't know myself, I'm really tired and going to bed now.

 

[notTHATtodd]

No, I think it'd be equally bull**** if the US got involved with the Native American reservations because, hey, they wanted their own land, they should defend it. Yes, I know WHY Denmark was involved, doesn't mean I can't have an opinion either way.

I find a comment like this to fly in the face of history and hundreds of years of discrimination, suffering and misery dumped on the Native people of the USA. "...they wanted their own land, they should defend it..." Those tribes, those that survived the genocidal behavior of the settlers, lost their wars, got rounded up and stuck on crappy patches of land that were then caleld theirs. It has little to do with them wanting their own land. :gripe:

And just as a comment of foreign policy of every country that completely surrounds a smaller one, they would always become involved militarily...even moreso if it was the US military...because in order to invade that smaller country, the bigger one would have to be "invaded" or have it's soverinty violated first.

 

[notTHATtodd]

You can do it in Belgium.

And Washington D.C. It happens all the time

 

[notTHATtodd]

Actually, scientists are working on time travel. It may still be a ways off and the theorys are a bit complicated, but they are figuring out how we could do it in the future.

This is so undeniable subtle...I love it! :lol:

 

[shadyd1224]

how do we know timetravel will never happen? because the one guy who invented it would own stock in every company and every key issue comic