Milk is vile and disgusting

Ultimate Houde

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Okay, it is a well known fact that milk is essential for baby growth and proper development. After that, well, most human develop lactose intolerant stomachs, personally if I eat too much ice cream I pay for it 30 minutes later screaming for mercy on the toilet, and this was an evolutionary trait, considering milk is a hard resource for early farmers to get before the domestication of the cow.

Okay, let's break this article down some...

Let's look at the scientific literature first. From 1988 to1993 there were over 2,700 articles dealing with milk recorded in the 'Medicine' archives. Fifteen hundred of theses had milk as the main focus of the article. There is no lack of scientific information on this subject. I reviewed over 500 of the 1,500 articles, discarding articles that dealt exclusively with animals, esoteric research and inconclusive studies.

As a scientist, this is a common tatic that we use, saying we cited this many articles and perused this, when in reality we went to a scientific journal search engine, and typed in our criteria, and getting a result. I suspect over 90 % of these articles are useless. The statement in bold is a hazardous one to make in the scientific world, without any footnotes or citations to back it up. It also, in my wary mind, states that he is discarding article sbase don his opinions of what is good and bad, therefore he can defend his findings by falling back on, well, this is what I found to be important.

This paragraph has made me wary of the rest of the article.

More ominous is the fear of viral infection with bovine leukemia virus or an AIDS-like virus as well as concern for childhood diabetes. Contamination of milk by blood and white (pus) cells as well as a variety of chemicals and insecticides was also discussed. Among children the problems were allergy, ear and tonsillar infections, bedwetting, asthma, intestinal bleeding, colic and childhood diabetes. In adults the problems seemed centered more around heart disease and arthritis, allergy, sinusitis, and the more serious questions of leukemia, lymphoma and cancer.

Yes, when milk isn't pastuerized these above statements are true.

Our paleolithic ancestors are another crucial and interesting group to study. Here we are limited to speculation and indirect evidences, but the bony remains available for our study are remarkable. There is no doubt whatever that these skeletal remains reflect great strength, muscularity (the size of the muscular insertions show this), and total absence of advanced osteoporosis. And if you feel that these people are not important for us to study, consider that today our genes are programming our bodies in almost exactly the same way as our ancestors of 50,000 to 100,000 years ago.

Notice he fails to mention the life expectancy of our ancestors. Around 30 was old I believe...and osteroporosis doesn't hit the body until in the 40's.

So far he seems incredibly biased, and I'm not even a quarter of the way through it yet.

Consider for a moment, if it was possible, to drink the milk of a mammal other than a cow, let's say a rat. Or perhaps the milk of a dog would be more to your liking. Possibly some horse milk or cat milk. Do you get the idea? Well, I'm not serious about this, except to suggest that human milk is
for human infants, dogs' milk is for pups, cows' milk is for calves, cats' milk is for kittens, and so forth. Clearly, this is the way nature intends it. Just use your own good judgement on this one.

Well, this logic can also be in used for other things. A cow's meat is only for a cow, a green bean's fruit is only for a green bean, and cat's can only be eaten by other cats.

We are humans, we learned to adapt and have the world around us provide for us, hence the pastuerization I have alreayd mention, making milk suitable for us to consume.

For the next few articles he states how human's milk and mother's milk have huge differences. Which is why we don't give store milk to babies, only idiots do, like my cousin did, and her baby died, why, because she was an idiot, not because of the milk in stores. Again, this man seems very narrow in his arguments. I think he has a vendetta against milk.

Today the top producers give 50,000 pounds! How was this accomplished? Drugs, antibiotics, hormones, forced feeding plans and specialized breeding; that's how.

Oh, you mean what we did with tomato plants, and other produce as well as other domesticated animals?

He quotes Consumer Reports. Scientists do not quote from magazines, it is considered a third strung resource and not accurate enough for arguments.

Men who reported drinking three or more glasses of whole milk daily had a relative risk of 2.49 compared with men who reported never drinking whole milk the weight of the evidence appears to favour the hypothesis that animal fat is related to increased risk of prostate cancer. Prostate cancer is now the most common cancer diagnosed in US men and is the second leading cause of cancer mortality.

While this may be true, he fails to take numerous other things into account. Milk is high in nutrients, whole milk is even worse. You drink this many glasses of milk a day, your kidneys need to filter out more and more. This leads to kidney problems, which is seen in prostate problems. This can be caused by drinking too much of anything, soda, Gatorade, even good old Water.

This man is merely ranting against milk for no other reason than ranting against it. Not once does he provide a counter arguement in this article, or other hypothesis on how these things occur. He mentioned mad cow disease at one point.

Which was transmitted by the meat of the cow as well.

I will try to finish this to the end, though I find this may be impossible.

The most important such article appeared recently

A statement one should never use.

...and a prominent cause of osteoporosis.

Not once did I see him say this in his article, yet he puts it in the summary. I saw that he said Calcium can't be absorbed, but then again, he never stated you need fat to absorb vitamins and minerals. So in other words, low fat is healthier than skim because skim milk is allowing you to absorb anything. He also stated the skim and lowfat milk has a high amount of calories. Well, milk is mainly sugar, so of course it's going to have a high amount of calories, dumbass. Anyone who doesn't know that is a moron.

While I do agree with him on soy and rice milk, I feel he made this article simply to put down milk because he hates it. It reminded me very much of a vegen or vegiatarian propaganda article.
 
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Victor Von Doom

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I'm kinda lactose intolerant so any milk that enters this body has been violated by Cocoa Krispies or some other kinda cereal. Even then.....I don't drink the milk.

This thread is making me gassy.
 

E.Vi.L.

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I used to drink about one litre a day, back when I was an hyperactive teenager.

I probably still drink about 3-4 litre a week. Skimmed, of course. I think 3.5% fat milk taste better but with the amount I drink...

I'm not letting any silly studies put me off milk.

I would just ask a question, though : Why the hell is the Breast Surgery Chief Division of General Surgery,
Seton Medical writing a pseudo scientific paper about Milk?

Did he develop a weird phobia after operating on the breasts of a pregnant woman? :lol:
 
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cmdrjanjalani

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I don't drink much milk either because of my lactose intolerance. Houde does make good points though, I have a feeling this doctor is a PETArd. The only thing missing is a promotion that beer is healthier.
 

E

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Houde gets Post of the Day.

I feel bad if I came across as supporting this guys claims 100%, and I too spotted some dubious claims and creative wording. I should have mentioned that.
 

Planet-man

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I was lactose intolerent as a toddler but grew out of that around age 4.

Anyway, I love milk. I drink at least 2 or 3 glasses every day. The only side effect I've noticed is that I've never broken a bone or gotten a cavity.

Interestingly enough, one of my sister's best friends never drinks milk, but she does drink about 2 cans of Coke or Pepsi every day. One time she was playing soccer and someone kicked the ball to her. She was about 20 feet away and it hit her in the forearm. It was a clean break.

Also, though she comes from a relatively tall family, she's only 4' 11 at age 14.

Got milk?
 

Victor Von Doom

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Ultimate Houde said:
Interesting, a Post of the Day that's educational

Take that Moonmaster

HA!

Evil Scientist trumps the mad scientist


Uh oh.....it's only a matter of time until Moony sees this. The gauntlet has been thrown. :scared:
 

Ultimate MJ

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Ultimate Houde said:
personally if I eat too much ice cream I pay for it 30 minutes later screaming for mercy on the toilet,
I'm ALMOST vegan (still eat cheese), and ate some Ice Cream a couple of days ago.. And yeah, 30 mins later is has you screaming. Kind of a good indicator that you shouldn't eat something if your stomach develops a natural resistance to it. This happens with both meat and milk, but not grains, fruits, or vegetables. Hmmm... I wonder what our natural diets should consist of :roll:
when in reality we went to a scientific journal search engine, and typed in our criteria, and
getting a result. I suspect over 90 % of these articles are useless.

LOL... I do this all the time for academic papers (thank you LExis Nexis!), so I wont judge him on this point.


Well, this logic can also be in used for other things. A cow's meat is only for a cow, a green bean's fruit is only for a green bean, and cat's can only be eaten by other cats.

Ermm... I dont think this holds. A correct argument would be that blood is for transporting oxygen (not drinking by vampires), semen is for reproduction, etc.

Cat meat isn't produced specifically for other cats to eat. Green beans however ARE produced by the plant specifically for consumption by humans. Same with all domesticated crops. This isn't true of domesticated animals.

Oh, you mean what we did with tomato plants, and other produce as well as other domesticated animals?

A tomato plant has no sentience. It doesn't feel pain, or the discomfort of being force fed or pumped full of anitbiotics. Artificially altering crops doesn't breed disease like altering livestock does. I could go on, but I think thats enough.


Which was transmitted by the meat of the cow as well.

Which is why you shouldnt eat that either! :p


I feel he made this article simply to put down milk because he hates it. It reminded me very much of a vegen or vegiatarian propaganda article.

Whether or not this is the most academic article, milk is still bad. Other sources of calcium are far healthier, and less unnatural (can you imagine if we started feeding adult cows human breastmilk? It would be disgusting).

I think the only point that really needs to be made is the ice cream thing from the beggining of my post... Milk ****s with your digestive system. It aint healthy.

Cheese tastes great though. :wink:

Planet-man said:
I was lactose intolerent as a toddler but grew out of that around age 4.

Anyway, I love milk. I drink at least 2 or 3 glasses every day. The only side effect I've noticed is that I've never broken a bone or gotten a cavity.

Interestingly enough, one of my sister's best friends never drinks milk, but she does drink about 2 cans of Coke or Pepsi every day. One time she was playing soccer and someone kicked the ball to her. She was about 20 feet away and it hit her in the forearm. It was a clean break.

Also, though she comes from a relatively tall family, she's only 4' 11 at age 14.

Got milk?


Oh, and planetman.. I think your sisters friends problem has to do with more than just milk. Im sure if shes drinking two sodas a day, she also has all sorts of other unhealthy habits that lead to brittle bones.

And to counter your point, I havent drank milk in years (well, I drink soymilk), and I havent ever had a cavity, and the last bone I broke was like 8 years before I gave up milk.
 

E.Vi.L.

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Ultimate MJ said:
Milk ****s with your digestive system. It aint healthy.

It ****s with your digestive system. Mine takes it very well. Bring on the ice cream. And the cheese. But not at the same time. Not because of my stomach, because of my taste buds!
 
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Ultimate Houde

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Ultimate MJ said:
I'm ALMOST vegan (still eat cheese), and ate some Ice Cream a couple of days ago.. And yeah, 30 mins later is has you screaming. Kind of a good indicator that you shouldn't eat something if your stomach develops a natural resistance to it. This happens with both meat and milk, but not grains, fruits, or vegetables. Hmmm... I wonder what our natural diets should consist of :roll:

Actually, grains hurt my grandmother's digestive system, but fruits or vegetables that have seeds in them hurt her too, so I don't think your argument stands that way either. Every person is different on what they can tolerate to eat/digest and leave it at that.

Ermm... I dont think this holds. A correct argument would be that blood is for transporting oxygen (not drinking by vampires), semen is for reproduction, etc.

??

I'm confused by this, could you elaborate what your talking about and how it relates to what I was trying to say.

Cat meat isn't produced specifically for other cats to eat. Green beans however ARE produced by the plant specifically for consumption by humans. Same with all domesticated crops. This isn't true of domesticated animals.

I beg to differ, domesticated animals serve a certain purpose for humans, hence why they are domesticated. Dogs serve many purposes, as do cats/horses that don't involve human consumption, while goats/cows/chickens do in various degrees.

A tomato plant has no sentience. It doesn't feel pain, or the discomfort of being force fed or pumped full of anitbiotics. Artificially altering crops doesn't breed disease like altering livestock does. I could go on, but I think thats enough.

Biology is the study of life, and it has several criteria that need to be met for something to be considered alive. Plants meet all of these critieria. They most likely do scream, just you can't hear it. They are force fed, manure in plant's cases, and are pumped full of chemicals. Artifically altering crops can lead to diseases, making allgeries become active that was unknown before.

Which is why you shouldnt eat that either! :p

But they taste so good..

Whether or not this is the most academic article, milk is still bad. Other sources of calcium are far healthier, and less unnatural (can you imagine if we started feeding adult cows human breastmilk? It would be disgusting).

Disgusting yes, but then again, that's our culture. If ones culture does something for many generations, it loses it's stigmata and becomes accepted.

I think the only point that really needs to be made is the ice cream thing from the beggining of my post... Milk ****s with your digestive system. It aint healthy.

Cheese tastes great though. :wink:

And the counterpoint I made, dependent on one's digestive system, anything can **** with it. I'm Italian, and for some odd reason, garlic makes me run to the bathroom all the time.

And yes, cheese is great.

Which comes from yogurt

Which is made by milk

Which comes from cows

That we domesticated.

E.Vi.L. said:
It ****s with your digestive system. Mine takes it very well. Bring on the ice cream. And the cheese. But not at the same time. Not because of my stomach, because of my taste buds!

Man, I typed up a massive post, and he summed it up in one sentence

Damn you EViL
 

Ultimate MJ

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E.Vi.L. said:
It ****s with your digestive system. Mine takes it very well. Bring on the ice cream. And the cheese. But not at the same time. Not because of my stomach, because of my taste buds!

No, it ****s with your body too. You just have a built up resistance to it. Your digestive system probably also processes pizza, ramen noodles, and coca cola very well (not to assume anything about you diet, just using random examples). They still arent healthy.

I used to be able to eat dairy constantly without feeling the effects, but that doesn't make it healthy.

But, I concede the point I guess... Eat what you want. Doesn't hurt me any if you eat unhealthily, I am not exactly a shining beacon of health myself.

houde said:
I'm confused by this, could you elaborate what your talking about and how it relates to what I was trying to say.

I typed something out, but it was long and wordy. If you really for care for clarification, PM me, but it wasn't exactly an earth shattering point anyways.


I beg to differ, domesticated animals serve a certain purpose for humans, hence why they are domesticated. Dogs serve many purposes, as do cats/horses that don't involve human consumption, while goats/cows/chickens do in various degrees....Biology is the study of life, and it has several criteria that need to be met for something to be considered alive. Plants meet all of these critieria. They most likely do scream, just you can't hear it.

There is so much wrong here, I don't know where to start. But, if being a vegetarian for 5 years has taught me anything, it that you can't teach people what they aren't willing to learn.

All I will say is that there is a HUGE difference between life, self awareness, and ability to feel pain. Plants don't have the latter two.
 

Random

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I personally never had a problem with milk, I only know one guy who is lactose intolerant and he would take a pill before consuming milk and he'd be fine.


One time the dad of my friend told me one time in college he told this guy to chug the gallon of milk, and it would impress this girl. The only problem is that the human stomach cannot tolerate that much milk and you almost garantee to puke
 

Ultimate Houde

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All I will say is that there is a HUGE difference between life, self awareness, and ability to feel pain. Plants don't have the latter two.

How is a plant not self aware? The sun moves, they follow it. Certain plants bloom at certain times during the day. They close when something flutters near there petals. Venus fly traps snap close when a bug lands.

The above shows they respond to an environment, which is a porperty of life, and therefore they have nervous tissue, and need to be AWARE of the environment they are in. Nervous tissue means they feel pain, the reason why it's not visible with a plant cell unlike a bacterium or animal cell is because of the cell wall. The structure that only occurs in plants, the structure that supports the long stems/tree trunks of plant. It's completely rigid, hence why you don't see a plant shrink back from pain, though the inner cells are most likely doing that (though the closing of petals is a sign of shrinking back from pain or hurt).

E, see what you started?
 

JonnyFreeze

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Mr T would think you some kind of bad guy if u werent down with the Milk so for the sake of your health i would drink it if i were you
t3.jpg


or get headlocked!
 

E.Vi.L.

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Ultimate MJ said:
No, it ****s with your body too. You just have a built up resistance to it. Your digestive system probably also processes pizza, ramen noodles, and coca cola very well (not to assume anything about you diet, just using random examples). They still arent healthy.

Hey, we started talking about digestive system and you switch meaning to health in general. Don't switch meaning of a quote unless it's for comedic effect!

But there are plenty of studies that support the fact that a few dose of dairy product daily is excellent for the health. While studies battle it out, I drink milk.

Beside, meat and daiy can't be all that bad for the health. In history, there is not a single warrior cast (Samurai, Knights etc.) that didn't eat meat in larger quantity than the rest of the population in order to remain fighting fit. In those days of scarcer ressources, access to a sufficient quantity of red meat or cheese could become a strategic concern in some case.

To this day, there is no such thing as a high level vegan athlete (Using the word Athlete in the strictest sense) and very few vegetarian (most Athlete IDed as vegetarian actually eat dairy products, eggs or even fish).

If you keep an active life style, dairy and meat are perfectly healthy. If you are very active, they become almost necessary. All in reasonable quantities, of course.
 
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E

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Ultimate Houde said:
How is a plant not self aware? The sun moves, they follow it. Certain plants bloom at certain times during the day. They close when something flutters near there petals. Venus fly traps snap close when a bug lands.

I don't think responding to stimuli means something is self-aware.

Ultimate Houde said:
E, see what you started?

I rule.
 

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