Miracleman (Marvel)

Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

Does anyone have sales figures on the current Marvel Miracleman issues? I don't think anyone is buying these! If you go on Comixology's site the new issues are buried. No one talks about them.

That said, #10 is out today and is the last issue of Book 2. Looks great. I liked what you (DiB) said earlier about the issues helping you enjoy the story - it seems like I'm picking up a lot of things I'd either missed or forgotten about, especially with #10.
 
Does anyone have sales figures on the current Marvel Miracleman issues? I don't think anyone is buying these! If you go on Comixology's site the new issues are buried. No one talks about them. That said, #10 is out today and is the last issue of Book 2. Looks great. I liked what you (DiB) said earlier about the issues helping you enjoy the story - it seems like I'm picking up a lot of things I'd either missed or forgotten about, especially with #10.

Yeah I'm surprised more people aren't picking up the individual issues. I have a feeling that's in large part due to them merely being reprints. As wonderful as the re-coloring is, I doubt many would be willing to shell out $5 per issue just for that. The supplemental stuff like the Warpsmiths stories are cool, but again, only the hardcore MM fans probably care about those.

I do think many people already own the original Eclipse issues, and until the new Gaiman/Buckingham issues start being published with #25 won't bother with the reprints (which is a shame). I do expect buzz and interest to reignite once we draw closer to the new issues being released in a little over a year.

The hardcovers are ridiculously expensive too. The first volume only collect the first four issues and it's list price is $30 (you end up paying $7.50 per issue that way as opposed to $5 by buying them individually). Volume 2 is listing at $35, but collect issues 5-10 so it comes to $7.00 per individual issue.

I think many are waiting on softcover/TPB releases that'll be cheaper and less ridiculously priced.

Marvel is kind of shooting themselves in the foot with the expensive pricing approach, with both the individual issues and the hardcovers.
 
Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

Grant Morrison to "Return" to Marvel with Annual

On New Year's Eve, you can head to your local comics shop (or online retailer, if you hate the smell of paper) and buy Miracleman Annual No. 1. It will feature the following delights: the aforementioned never-before-seen Grant Morrison story, which will be drawn by Marvel Entertainment's chief creative officer (and veteran penciler) Joe Quesada; a brand-new Miracleman story written by Peter Milligan and drawn by Mike Allred; a cover by Italian illustrator Gabriele Dell'Otto; and a variant cover by Bone writer-artist Jeff Smith. For the comics world, this is a huge deal.
 
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Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

Yeah I'm surprised more people aren't picking up the individual issues. I have a feeling that's in large part due to them merely being reprints

I'm sure that's part of it, but I still think the high cover price is the bigger reason. They haven't quite got to the reprints of the more rare issues (mostly Gaiman's issues, but the last couple of Moore's as well) but I would venture to guess most readers DON'T have the original Eclipse issues. even the more common ones aren't that easy to find. I find very, very few brick and mortar stores have them.

But it's more than that - I don't even think the pirated scans are that popular. I still think price has at least something to do with that. A high cover price can have a tendency to zap enthusiasm for something.

I mentioned this before I think, but I think Marvel's hands are tied with the pricing. I don't think it's greed as much as it is with other high priced books (things like Amazing Spider-Man 700 for example), but we know now that they paid about $1 million just for the rights to the character. At that point Joe Q., much to his credit, did his diligence and tracked down original art and presumably had to make agreements with all of the original creators who still held the rights to their work. The wording made it sound like that stuff was not part of the $1 million they paid. I think they've got a LOT of money tied up in this. And they've said in the past, multiple times, that they do not believe the pricing model of price low to attract a larger audience works.

Honestly I'm a little worried that they are going to pull the plug on this. It really seems to be a MASSIVE failure.

Now, that being said, some really interesting (and GREAT) news came out today:

Grant Morrison has talked a few times about the Kid Marvelman story he was asked to write for Warrior Magazine back in the day, after they'd fallen on bad terms with Alan Moore, only to get a note from Alan Moore asking him please not to.

Well, there's no one to stop him now.

We'd previously told you that Marvel would be publishing two comic books for New Years Eve. One would be the new Mark Waid penned Agents Of SHIELD series. The other is the Miracleman Annual. Which will feature that story from thirty years ago by Grant Morrison, drawn by Marvel EIC Joe Quesada, and more stories besides.
Vulture reports on how that came about, with Quesada telling them,

"Grant said something like, 'I'm sure I have the script somewhere, maybe I'll dig it up and just post it online for the fans, just for the fun of it…. Several things came to mind. One was, Oh my God, this actually happened. Another was, Oh my God, he may have the actual script. Another was, Please don't put it out for free yet!"

Morrison agreed to give Marvel the script, but under the condition that Quesada — who hasn't drawn a full comics story in years — draw it himself. It's a short, meditative tale about Miracleman sidekick turned nemesis Johnny Bates, set before the apocalyptic events of Miracleman No. 15.

It will be the first new Miracleman/Marvelman story officially published since the last published issue of the Eclipse run by Neil Gaiman and Mark Buckingham.

This is awesome - Grant Morrison is my favorite writer and I always thought it was a shame that he never got to write this story. And not only do I (mostly) love Joe Q.'s art (except when he draws Mary Jane :sick: ), but I love how complete he is being with the restoration of this book and character. Now he's even going back and securing stories that were (sort of) planned but never happened. This is great!

The downside to this is that, while I never thought about it this precisely, I never, ever wanted a writer like Peter Milligan writing this character. They are opening the floodgates for mediocre and bad writers to start writing this character, and they might even be doing it sooner than they planned in order to make up for the financial failure of the main title. This is not great.

If it ever comes out that Bendis is writing anything having to do with this character it might cause me to close this site and burn all my comics.
 
I'm sure that's part of it, but I still think the high cover price is the bigger reason. They haven't quite got to the reprints of the more rare issues (mostly Gaiman's issues, but the last couple of Moore's as well) but I would venture to guess most readers DON'T have the original Eclipse issues. even the more common ones aren't that easy to find. I find very, very few brick and mortar stores have them. But it's more than that - I don't even think the pirated scans are that popular. I still think price has at least something to do with that. A high cover price can have a tendency to zap enthusiasm for something. I mentioned this before I think, but I think Marvel's hands are tied with the pricing. I don't think it's greed as much as it is with other high priced books (things like Amazing Spider-Man 700 for example), but we know now that they paid about $1 million just for the rights to the character. At that point Joe Q., much to his credit, did his diligence and tracked down original art and presumably had to make agreements with all of the original creators who still held the rights to their work. The wording made it sound like that stuff was not part of the $1 million they paid. I think they've got a LOT of money tied up in this. And they've said in the past, multiple times, that they do not believe the pricing model of price low to attract a larger audience works. Honestly I'm a little worried that they are going to pull the plug on this. It really seems to be a MASSIVE failure.

That's my worry as well. Still, even with the higher pricing, I don't think it's prohibitively so. And given the price of those later original issues, as you said, I'd hope those reprints might attract some interest.

Now, that being said, some really interesting (and GREAT) news came out today: This is awesome - Grant Morrison is my favorite writer and I always thought it was a shame that he never got to write this story. And not only do I (mostly) love Joe Q.'s art (except when he draws Mary Jane :sick: ), but I love how complete he is being with the restoration of this book and character. Now he's even going back and securing stories that were (sort of) planned but never happened. This is great! The downside to this is that, while I never thought about it this precisely, I never, ever wanted a writer like Peter Milligan writing this character. They are opening the floodgates for mediocre and bad writers to start writing this character, and they might even be doing it sooner than they planned in order to make up for the financial failure of the main title. This is not great. If it ever comes out that Bendis is writing anything having to do with this character it might cause me to close this site and burn all my comics.

This is really interesting. I never even knew Morrison had written a Miracleman story. This should be interesting.

However, you bring up a good point in terms of mediocre writers tackling Miracleman. It's worrying. Miracleman is such an amazing title overall due to the brilliance and depth of the writing. While crappy stories by less talented writers won't ruin the amazing originals, it WILL cheapen the mystique and reliably fantastic story aspect that's associated with Miracleman.

And the thing is, it was bound to happen. Marvel bought the rights to wring every dollar they can from the property, and I'm sure they always had plans for stories beyond the reprints and Gaiman finishing his run.

I'd just prefer they are extremely careful with who they allow to write those stories, and keep an extremely high level of quality on what they print in the Miracleman mythos.

It'd be great if Morrison perhaps did more work in the MM universe. He's one of the few writers who has the chops for it.

In terms of today's stable of writers, who do you think could pull off a good Miracleman series, mini-series, one-shot, or even short story in an anthology type issue like the Annual?

I have no problem with them making a profit, I just want them to do it right, instead of a cheap and horrible cash-in on the Miracleman name (like the horrible Total Eclipse mini-series that Eclipse did back in the 80's...which I ignore).

Also, wyo beat you by 6 minutes. ;)

After looking at it, Quesada's artwork looks fantastic in those couple pages.

Dis gunna b gude!

Also, while I'm apprehensive about the Milligan-penned tale, I'll remain cautiously optimistic until it's release.

Also, will you actually burn all your comics this time? I feel like this could be a comic nerd version of the ice bucket challenge, but with slightly less narcissism and absolutely no benefit to charities.
 
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Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

It looks like the Milligan story might take place in the Marvelman settings, going by the logo on Miracleman's uniform in Allred's art. I have a little less issue with this, but I still think it's a slippery slope.

I would LOVE a Grant Morrison run after Gaiman finishes. Oh man. That would be incredible.

I was talking with Proj yesterday after he found some sales figures...Miracleman #8 (Marvel) sold around 17,000 copies, and that does not appear to include digital sales. That doesn't seem too bad. Maybe it's not as big of a failure as it seems sales-wise.
 
It looks like the Milligan story might take place in the Marvelman settings, going by the logo on Miracleman's uniform in Allred's art. I have a little less issue with this, but I still think it's a slippery slope. I would LOVE a Grant Morrison run after Gaiman finishes. Oh man. That would be incredible.

Seriously, Morrison would be the perfect choice should they choose to continue the series after Gaiman.

I was talking with Proj yesterday after he found some sales figures...Miracleman #8 (Marvel) sold around 17,000 copies, and that does not appear to include digital sales. That doesn't seem too bad. Maybe it's not as big of a failure as it seems sales-wise.

Yeah, that's not bad, especially considering that doesn't include the digital issues sold.
 
Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

I have a writers wish list for Miracleman but I'm keeping it to myself because Io know you guys will tear it apart :p
 
Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

Grant Morrison and maybe Warren Ellis are the only two people I think I could accept.
 
Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

Lol, I'd actually love to hear your thoughts on that.

Well, I'd like to see Mark Waid, Grant Morrison, Brian K Vaughn, Warren Ellis, Greg Rucka, Nick Spencer, Matt Fraction, Jason Aaron, Howard Chaykin, Kelly Sue DeConnick, Darwyn Cooke, Jeph Loeb, Brian Michael Bendis, Greg Pak, Paul Dini, Kurt Busiek, Ed Brubaker, Peter David, and Jeff Smith all take a crack at it. AKA I'd like to see my favorite writers write this.
 
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Be careful what you wish for!

I really should know better by now.

Grant Morrison and maybe Warren Ellis are the only two people I think I could accept.

Morrison can definitely do a great job. Ellis may be able to, not sure.

Well, I'd like to see Mark Waid, Grant Morrison, Brian K Vaughn, Warren Ellis, Greg Rucka, Nick Spencer, Matt Fraction, Jason Aaron, Howard Chaykin, Kelly Sue DeConnick, Darwyn Cooke, Jeph Loeb, Brian Michael Bendis, Greg Pak, Paul Dini, Kurt Busiek, Ed Brubaker, Peter David, and Jeff Smith all take a crack at it. AKA I'd like to see my favorite writers write this.

There it is. Now E really will close the site and burn all his comics.

But seriously, have you read Miracleman? As good as Loeb may have been on some of his earlier stuff, and as good as Bendis may have been on some of his stuff, neither of those would be good choices for Miracleman.

In fact, with the exception of Morrison and maybe Warren Ellis, I doubt any of those people can write the title as it deserves.
 
Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

I recognize the cultural and historical relevance of Miracleman, but I don't believe any character should not allowed to be written by anyone. Nor should certain stories not be allowed to happen. That kind of thinking creates that poisonous "my character" thing a lot of comic fans have.
 
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I recognize the cultural and historical relevance of Miracleman, but I don't believe any character should not allowed to be written by anyone. Nor should certain stories not be allowed to happen. That kind of thinking creates that poisonous "my character" thing a lot of comic fans have.

No it doesn't. It creates a standard of quality for that book. I'm sorry, but if you really want to see Bendis write a Miracleman story, I don't think you're getting Miracleman. Again, have you actually read the series?

Also, many comic book fans have the supposedly poisonous "my character" thing about Batman, Superman, Spider-Man, Wolverine, and thousands of other characters that have been written by numerous writers over the years.

So I have to disagree completely with your assessment.

It's about not cheapening the character. It's about not allowing the level of quality to drop. It's about not letting just any "hot" writer write a tale just for the sake of it. It's about respecting what's come before and living up to that incredibly high bar, or at least coming close.

So no, Bendis, Loeb, and most of the writers you listed (except for Morrison and maybe Ellis) shouldn't be allowed to write Miracleman tales. It's only going to result in disappointment and destroying the almost mythic quality the book has on it's own, never mind the character himself.

#justsaynotoBendisonMiracleman
 
Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

I've read all the stuff Marvel has put out. I don't care about overall quality or "mythical" status the book has, I have writers I want to see how they'd handle the character. Alan Moore, Neil Gaimin, and Grant Morrison are only the start. I'm delighted to see that Milligan is writing a story. More writers the better. Same with Star Wars.
 
I've read all the stuff Marvel has put out.

Then you haven't even gotten to the truly great stuff yet.

I don't care about overall quality or "mythical" status the book has,

And this is the problem. You'd apparently be happy to see Miracleman become another rote, uninspired, McComicBook.

I don't want that. I want to see very select writers, who have a track record of brilliance and the ability to shape the world of Miracleman and the various characters in a way that makes sense for the book.

It's not Batman. It's not Superman. It's not Spider-Man.

It's not now, nor was ever meant to be, a huge franchise book with loads of spin-offs and a revolving door of writers and artists.

You already have thousands upon thousands of comics that have taken that approach, and hundreds more released every month with that approach.

Why would you want to see this turned into that? It's like our debate over the approach Valiant takes by revolving the titles they put out and doing things differently than the standard comic approach.

Seriously, making Miracleman just like the rest (which is essentially what you're calling for when you want to open it up to a bunch of writers who truly aren't able to match anywhere near the heights Millar and Gaiman brought the book to, and no doubt Morrison will in his tale for the Annual) is NOT a good thing. Not at all.

I have writers I want to see how they'd handle the character. Alan Moore, Neil Gaimin, and Grant Morrison are only the start. I'm delighted to see that Milligan is writing a story. More writers the better. Same with Star Wars.

Star Wars is a different story. It's a massive franchise that spans films, television shows, novels, comics, short stories, video games, etc. It NEEDS multitudes of writers to make that work.

Miracleman doesn't. Miracleman is essentially a monthly comic book of profound genius (great as SW is, it doesn't compare to Miracleman on a cerebral level). It's had a few spin off one shots and mini-series. It's a finite tale, with a beginning, middle, and end. It's not a never-ending, constantly expanding franchise like Star Wars is, nor should it be. If it came anything close to being that, I'd be completely done with it.

So lumping in Miracleman with Star Wars in terms of the "more writers the better" statement is completely incorrect. Again, I think you're completely missing the point of the book.
 
Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

And I'm saying I WANT Miracleman to become just like any other comic character. I want more stories by a plethora of writers that span every genre. I want spin-offs and the rest. I want more. I'm not missing anything, I'm Ignoring it. Putting characters on a pedestal like this leads to **** like people sending death threats to writers.
 
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And I'm saying I WANT Miracleman to become just like any other comic character. I want more stories by a plethora of writers that span every genre. I want spin-offs and the rest. I want more. I'm not missing anything, I'm Ignoring it.

Before Watchmen

Putting characters on a pedestal like this leads to **** like people sending death threats to writers.

No, moronic spinach-heads make death threats.

It's that simple.
 
Re: Marvel to Publish Miracleman!

Before Watchmen

Sucked, doesn't mean they shouldn't have done it. The original still stands just fine. If you don't like it just don't read it.

No, moronic spinach-heads make death threats.

It's that simple.

Because they went stupid and put the character on an untouchable pedestal.
 
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