Miracleman (Marvel)

[DIrishB]

But if they can't get the rights to reprint the artwork, it wouldn't matter. They wouldn't have a choice if they wanted to present the complete story. And it doesn't sound to me like this is an issue with obtaining negatives or acetates or whatever they were on. It's for the art itself because the artists own the rights to their own art in this case. If an artist doesn't give the OK, they wouldn't have any choice but to have someone redraw it.

I get that and I think that was what took so long from the original announcement of obtaining the rights (in what, 2009?) to finally publishing the reprints 5 years later. I'd think the hardest person to get to sign off on it would be Moore, and they've done so, in a way, by agreeing to remove his name from the reprints. I don't think any of the artists would be particularly troublesome in coming to an agreement with.

Like I said, I think since they're trying to use the original artwork and recoloring it, etc, that's the biggest issue. After 20-30 years, some of that original artwork may have even sold or whatever by those original artists. In those cases I'm assuming they'll have to use copies from the printed material.

But I doubt Marvel would go forward without having all their ducks in a row, which is kind of evidenced by the 5 year gap between announcement and reprints coming to shelves.

 

[E]

I'd think the hardest person to get to sign off on it would be Moore, and they've done so, in a way, by agreeing to remove his name from the reprints.

I think that was probably the easiest one. He wanted his name removed, his share of profits to go to Mick Anglo, and nothing to do with any of it. He said as much in an interview right after marvel announced they got the rights.

After seeing the January solits it *looks* like the art they might not have got the rights to might be all or mostly covers. There was a wide range of artists on those covers - Chaykin did one, and Jim Starlin did one with a Thanos bust in the background. They might not have even tried to get rights to those. I'm pretty OK with all that myself.

Do the artists have the rights to the art as it was used in the books, or just the originals?

See, I'm not totally sure how that works. The artist have the rights to the actual artwork that they created, but not to reproduce it since they down't own rights to the characters. It's confusing because at the time they did it the rights were misrepresented, and there may have been a separation of rights between the characters themselves and other types of rights. It was a huge mess.

The wording in these announcements is confusing. They made it sound like they couldn't obtain the rights to the artwork (and I don't believe their ownership includes ownership of whatever negatives exist, if any) whn actually it might be like you said and they just wanted to use *original* artwork. That makes more sense, I guess.

Here's the solicitation for issues 1 & 2 in January:

MIRACLEMAN #1 & 2
THE ORIGINAL WRITER & MICK ANGLO (W)
GARRY LEACH, ALAN DAVIS, PAUL NEARY, STEVE DILLON & MICK ANGLO (A)
ISSUE #1 – COVER BY JOE QUESADA
Variant COVER BY JOHN CASSADAY
Variant COVER BY MARK BUCKINGHAM
Variant COVER BY JEROME OPENA
Variant COVER BY LEINIL FRANCIS YU
Sketch VARIANT BY JOE QUESADA
YOUNG VARIANT BY SKOTTIE YOUNG
CLASSIC VARIANT BY GARRY LEACH
ISSUE #2 – COVER BY ALAN DAVIS
Variant COVER BY ARTHUR ADAMS
Variant COVER BY MIKE PERKINS
Variant COVER BY MIKE MCKONE
Sketch VARIANT BY ALAN DAVIS• KIMOTA! With one magic word, a long-forgotten legend lives again!
• Freelance reporter Michael Moran always knew he was meant for something more -- now, a strange series of events leads him to reclaim his destiny!
• Relive the ground-breaking eighties adventures that captured lightning in a bottle -- or experience them for the first time -- in these digitally restored, fully relettered editions!
• Issue 1 includes material originally presented in WARRIOR #1 and MIRACLEMAN #1, plus the MARVELMAN PRIMER. Issue #2 includes material originally presented in WARRIOR #1-5, plus bonus material.
ISSUE #1 – 64 PGS./Parental Advisory…$5.99
ISSUE #2 – 48 PGS./Parental Advisory…$4.99

I guess that means they got the logo cleared up, because it appeared at least at one point in time that McFarlane might have owned the rights to the stacked MM logo that first appeared in Moore's run.

 

[Captain Canuck]

Re: Marvel to Publish Marvelman!

I have three questions, knowing absolutely nothing about Miracleman.

Who published it originally?

What's so great about it?

Do we think that Marvel is going to try to fold the story into Marvel continuity and continue making new stories? Or keep it separate and make new stories? Or just republish the old stories and a few old unpublished issues?

 

[DIrishB]

I have three questions, knowing absolutely nothing about Miracleman. Who published it originally?

Originally it was published in the UK in a comic anthology called Warrior (I forget the name of the publishing company). The original 1950's/1960's strips were done by Mick Anglo for L. Miller & Sons. After 20 or so issues in Warrior, those stories were collected and republished in America by Eclipse comics. I can't remember but I think that reprinted material was the first 7 issues or so. #8 featured new bookend pages and then reprinted a few stories from the Mick Anglo era. Then #9-24 were new stories.

What's so great about it?

Everything. It was essentially a blueprint for Moore's deconstructionist approach to superheroes that he did in Watchmen and other books. It really was groundbreaking for the time. It might seem less so now, but the real-world/mature take on superheroes kind of set the tone and paved the way for publishers like Vertigo, etc. Without Miracleman there likely wouldn't be a large number of the great comics from the past 25 years.

Also, the artwork was fantastic. Not so much in the early issues, but John Totleben's artwork in his run was absolutely amazing. Buckingham's artwork during Gaiman's run was also quite spectacular.

Do we think that Marvel is going to try to fold the story into Marvel continuity and continue making new stories? Or keep it separate and make new stories? Or just republish the old stories and a few old unpublished issues?

I really hope they keep it separate. Mixing it with existing 616 continuity would cheapen the character and his world drastically, and Marvel would undoubtedly catch a lot of flack for it. Hope they're smart enough to realize that and keep the MM reprints and any possible new stories their own thing. Also hope they keep the new stuff (assuming it goes past Gaiman) at an extremely high level of quality in both story and art.

But yeah, definitely check it out. You'll forever be a noob comic reader until you've read Miracleman.

 

[Captain Canuck]

Re: Marvel to Publish Marvelman!

But yeah, definitely check it out. You'll forever be a noob comic reader until you've read Miracleman.

I would, except for...

It was essentially a blueprint for Moore's deconstructionist approach to superheroes that he did in Watchmen and other books. It really was groundbreaking for the time.

I struggle to enjoy Moore's work. I've mentioned before that couldn't finish reading Watchmen. I liked V for Vendetta, but it stretched me to the edge of what i could handle with its cynicism and dark themes.

I may check it out eventually, but I'm not going to buy the individual issues. I guess I'll stick to being a n00b for now.

 

[Zombipanda]

Re: Marvel to Publish Marvelman!

I struggle to enjoy Moore's work.

............

What?

 

[DIrishB]

I would, except for... I struggle to enjoy Moore's work. I've mentioned before that couldn't finish reading Watchmen. I liked V for Vendetta, but it stretched me to the edge of what i could handle with its cynicism and dark themes. I may check it out eventually, but I'm not going to buy the individual issues. I guess I'll stick to being a n00b for now.

Wha-?

I'm astounded.

I get your being turned off by his dark themes and cynical approach, but I'd argue Miracleman in many ways is less cynical than Watchman and probably V for Vendetta (V for Vendetta also originated in the Warrior anthology comic).

There is some darkness, but also a fair amount of light. Moore's darkest stuff is towards the end of his run, and Gaiman's stuff is far lighter in tone but still serious, exploring the Golden Age of Miracleman's reign as benevolent dictator of the world (it also inspired stuff like The Authority, Ultimates, etc).

It's definitely worth reading even if you normally are turned off by Moore. It's a great book.

 

[Captain Canuck]

Re: Marvel to Publish Marvelman!

............

What?

Wha-?

I'm astounded.

I've said this on here before.

I get your being turned off by his dark themes and cynical approach, but I'd argue Miracleman in many ways is less cynical than Watchman and probably V for Vendetta (V for Vendetta also originated in the Warrior anthology comic).

There is some darkness, but also a fair amount of light. Moore's darkest stuff is towards the end of his run, and Gaiman's stuff is far lighter in tone but still serious, exploring the Golden Age of Miracleman's reign as benevolent dictator of the world (it also inspired stuff like The Authority, Ultimates, etc).

It's definitely worth reading even if you normally are turned off by Moore. It's a great book.

Yeah, I even struggled with the cynical tone of Ultimates when I first read it. But I warmed up to it. Well, like I said, I'll probably check it out eventually.

 

[E]

Re: Marvel to Publish Marvelman!

Cap Canuck would not like Miracleman. He's mentioned the kind of stuff he likes and doesn't, and this fits into the "doesn't".

That said, it's one of those books that everyone should probably read. It's an important piece of comics history, and even though a lot of books have copied a lot of what Miracleman did, there's nothing like it.

DiB answered your questions pretty well, but I would add this - Miracleman is pretty incredible to me because I've never seen because it explores what a superhero might do if he really existed. What if Superman was less passive and did more to save the world, going beyond typical super hero stuff and fixing societal problems? How would it affect his alter ego's personal life? What if everything couldn't be cleaned up nice and tidy at the end of every story arc, and his very existence literally changed the world on a fundamental level?

There are other incredible questions that come up and are answered based on his origin but that's the gist of it.

It's dark and totally not your thing, Cap, but I still recommend it.

 

[Zombipanda]

Re: Marvel to Publish Marvelman!

Yeah, I even struggled with the cynical tone of Ultimates when I first read it. But I warmed up to it. Well, like I said, I'll probably check it out eventually.

You should have struggled more with the fact that Ultimates wasn't all that good.

Bear in mind, all of Alan Moore's stuff isn't dark and dreary. He went through a superhero deconstruction phase and then, after leaving Marvel and DC behind, seemed to have a road to Damascus moment where he realized "Why deconstruct these characters when they're supposed to be about hope and wonder"?

You should read Moore's Supreme. It's, in every way, a counterpoint to the misery of Miracleman. It sits right beside All-Star Superman (and maybe a rung higher) as one of the best Superman stories ever told. Moore's described it as his apology to superhero fans.

 

[Captain Canuck]

Re: Marvel to Publish Marvelman!

Thanks E, it's nice to be understood

DiB answered your questions pretty well, but I would add this - Miracleman is pretty incredible to me because I've never seen because it explores what a superhero might do if he really existed. What if Superman was less passive and did more to save the world, going beyond typical super hero stuff and fixing societal problems? How would it affect his alter ego's personal life? What if everything couldn't be cleaned up nice and tidy at the end of every story arc, and his very existence literally changed the world on a fundamental level.

Yeah, that does sound interesting.

You should read Moore's Supreme. It's, in every way, a counterpoint to the misery of Miracleman. It sits right beside All-Star Superman (and maybe a rung higher) as one of the best Superman stories ever told. Moore's described it as his apology to superhero fans.

I should probably mention at this point that I rarely enjoy Gran Morrison either. Including All-Star Superman. (His Batman run was awesome, but only because I found annotated notes online to explain what was going on.)

 

[Ice]

Re: Marvel to Publish Marvelman!

I've never read any Miracle Man, but I've seen how much praise it gets. I will read the reprints at some point.

I should probably mention at this point that I rarely enjoy Gran Morrison either. Including All-Star Superman.

[video=youtube;AXA21RL9-IY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXA21RL9-IY[/video]

 

[Captain Canuck]

Re: Marvel to Publish Marvelman!

Haha, sorry Ice.

 

[Zombipanda]

Re: Marvel to Publish Marvelman!

I should probably mention at this point that I rarely enjoy Gran Morrison either. Including All-Star Superman. (His Batman run was awesome, but only because I found annotated notes online to explain what was going on.)

You are just the worst kind of person.

 

[ProjectX2]

Re: Marvel to Publish Marvelman!

But All-Star Superman, Miracleman and the first volume of The Ultimates are the best.

 

[Captain Canuck]

Re: Marvel to Publish Marvelman!

You are just the worst kind of person.

I say as much at the bottom of every post.

 

[Zombipanda]

Re: Marvel to Publish Marvelman!

But All-Star Superman, Miracleman and the first volume of The Ultimates are the best.

Two outta three ain't bad.

 

[E]

Re: Marvel to Publish Marvelman!

I went to my LCS last week to pick up my books and started talking about the new Miracleman stuff, and I added it to my pulls. He looked it up on the retail order website (Diamond?) and they have changed the listing to say that the print does NOT include digital. So I believe that the first issue is $5.99/64 pages and does not include a digital copy. In fact, it didn't appear that there was going to be a print plus digital copy version at all.

 

[Ice]

Re: Marvel to Publish Marvelman!

I'd ask someone from Marvel just incase. Diamond is a terrible company.

 

[DIrishB]

I went to my LCS last week to pick up my books and started talking about the new Miracleman stuff, and I added it to my pulls. He looked it up on the retail order website (Diamond?) and they have changed the listing to say that the print does NOT include digital. So I believe that the first issue is $5.99/64 pages and does not include a digital copy. In fact, it didn't appear that there was going to be a print plus digital copy version at all.

Weird. Seems like a bit of a dumb move unless they're trying to help out the brick and mortar stores.

And 64 pages? Is it all extra material (art, etc) or are they reprinting like the first 3 issues in one?