Please, Marvel, I'm begging you

to those who dont understand what the last few posts have been about, let me clear the dust on the matter....

all you need to know is that xorn was a mutant who was impersonated by magneto...during Grant's run xorn was never a real character, just someone made up by magneto to get into the x mansion and get close to his enemies the old fashioned way....keep your friends closer and enemies closer!!

Spit hit the fan and the fans demanded more xorn after the run, to make matters weirder....marvel made xorn a real guy and played things out so magneto not only kidnapped the guy, but impersonated him instead of creating his own mutant persona.
 
icemastertron said:
Xorn and Magento are NOT the same person. Not if you read Excalibur #2.

WHAT?!

Must... destroy.... Marvel....

But before I do, a little bio on Xorn for Slimjim (you're a sidekick because you have posted X posts, when you post more posts your subnick changes, I was a sidekick too):

In Grant Morrison's New X-Men run (beginning in #114 I think), a giant Sentinel is sent by Cassandra Nova to attack Genosha. When it gets there it almost completely wipes out every mutant on the island. One of the casualties is Magneto. He's in his tower, in a wheel chair (he's not well) and the tower is blown up by the Sentinel during its rampage.

Much later, in Hong Kong, the X-Men are investigating Jonny Sublime, the leader of the U-Men, who are humans that desire to become mutants and so they hunt down mutants, kill them, and graft parts of their bodies onto their own. Sublime is attempting to get a hold of a mutant named Xorn, who is held in a huge prison by the Chinese. Xorn would've been the next Buddha, but he has a star for a brain, so he was locked up by the Chinese, with a skull-shaped metal helmet on his head. The U-Men want his brain. The X-Men discover this, defeat Sublime who is killed in the struggle, and free Xorn. Xorn then joins the X-Men, as a healer.

With that story over, the next plot moves on to involve Cassandra Nova once more, and I won't go through all the details here, sufficed to say that part of her plan is to weaken the X-Men with nano-sentinels that are so small they are inside the X-Men, hacking away at their cells making it seem like they just have a cold, when in fact, they are being killed from the inside. Xorn, who has the power to heal people, heals all the X-Men by placing his hands on their head and through his power, killing all the nano-sentinels in their body. Cassandra Nova, who has possessed Charles Xavier, makes her final attack, and Xorn jumps on her, "healing" her, which somehow weakens her momentarily. The rest of the story unfolds and due to Jean's clever planning, the day is saved. But it turns out that Charles can now walk.

A while later, the X-Men return to Genosha because of weird occurrences there. Someone, amongst the radiation-heavy debris, is constructing a Magneto statue. It turns out to be Toad and some other mutants, and then there are these ambient magnetic fields, which turn out to be a farewell message from Magneto. He talks about his life, his dreams, his goal, and his untimely death, and gives a beautiful send off to the world.

Morrison has also, a series of unconnected events occur, for example, one student called Quentin Beck decides to orchestrate a riot in the school, during which another student is killed and it causes horrific public relations problems for the X-Men. As Quentin Beck is dying, Xavier calls Xorn in to heal Beck, but claims he is unable to do so. Other events such as a drug called "kick" which enhances a mutants power but is extremely detrimental to their health is being used (indeed, Beck is thought to have had an overdose of it), as well as more U-Men, and the discovery of the Weapon Plus programme, where it discovers that Weapon X is not Weapon "X" but rather Weapon Ten (X being the Roman numeral for 10) and Wolverine learns that there is a Weapon XIII, Weapon XIV, Weapon XV and so forth, and that they are all bred in a self-contained biosphere called "The World" and they're supposed to be next-generation Sentinels. Emma Frost is shot and killed by an unknown assailant due to having an affair with Cyclops (she gets resurrected though by Jean Grey), and more and more stories are happening.

Then, as Wolverine and Cylcops are in the Weapon Plus programme's HQ (which is a satellite in Earth's orbit), Jean goes to help them out, while Beast and Emma fly half way across the world to follow up a lead. In Xorn's special class, a girl called Sooraya (which is also my sister's name, how odd is that?), becomes frightened and her powers runamuck, destroying Cerebro. Xavier tries to help, and Xorn starts talking to Xavier very differently. Xavier notices that there are posters in Xorn's classroom that say, "Magneto Was Right", and then Xorn explains that the reason Xavier can walk is because the nano-sentinels Xorn put in his body are allowing him too, at which point Xorn gestures, and Xavier becomes crippled once more. At the same time, Emma and Beast are in the Blackbird, which explodes due to sabotage, and Wolverine deduces that the Weapon Plus HQ is Asteroid M. Xorn, then takes off his helmet and shows Xavier that he's Magneto, and that he's been planning this for a long time.

Magneto then destroys Manhattan, and turns it into New Genosha, and tries to usher in a new world. He's crippled electromagnetism the world over, because his message was actually a virus. The problem is... the mutant populace don't believe that it's really him, since he's died so many times. Magneto intends to turn the world on its axis, and needs to use the kick drug to do so. The X-Men regroup and confront him. In the ensuing conflict, Magneto is defeated and told to give himself up. Instead, he discharges all the power he's been storing into Jean, killing her. He then tells the X-Men to make him immortal, and allows Wolverine, who is in a frenzy, to kill him.

That's not the end of the story, but it is the end of Xorn and Magneto.

Xorn was just a guise Magneto used to destroy the X-Men from the inside. It was masterfully done and you should check it out.

But anything done with Xorn after that is a big waste of time.
 
I do hate how HoM will just be a simple way to retcon alot of stuff, but the Xorn issue should be.

I believe HoM will say something like Wanda created the Xorneto guy subconsciously. Something to that effect. For example, Wanda manifested different versions of her father. One as the mutant terrorist wanting mutant supremacy and the other a loving father. Who knows how Bendis could explain Magneto impersonating a Chinese mutant to infilitrate the Institute.

The whole Xorn issue was bad enough when Claremont said that Magneto was living on Genosha all this time, but Austen had to **** it up even more and create the original Xorn a twin brother with a black hole in his head instead of a star.

Wanda should just have the 616 universe implode or something.
 
I don't think it was done masterfully at all. It seemed like Morrison changed his mind about the character and turned him into magneto. There was no foreshadowing that it was really Magneto, just one day he started acting funny, and the next issue he was Magneto.
It was pretty lame i thought.
 
I think Wanda should have Claremont and Austen implode, along with every person who had the chance to stop this nonsense but didn't.

I'm even wound up Magneto is still alive. He got a great death. I read each of his deaths and this was, by far, the only one where I thought, "they should not bring him back, or at least, let him be dead for a decade or two", but no, he came back in like, the next ****ing month. ****ing ****-eating morons. :furious:
 
I think Wanda will end up dying from HoM and with it the father she created (the one who survived the Genosha attack).

I wouldn't mind Xorn in UU. He is a very original character. I'm not too sure about the star for a brain, but I always liked his healing powers. I can't think of a way to introduce him though.
 
Bass said:
He got a great death. I read each of his deaths and this was, by far, the only one where I thought, "they should not bring him back, or at least, let him be dead for a decade or two", but no, he came back in like, the next ****ing month. ****ing ****-eating morons. :furious:
That, I agree with. I like that Magneto is alive, cuz he's my favorite villain of all time, but than again, I don't at the same time.
 
Bass said:
ARGH! This is why people leave comics. Why the **** is the one company that is espousing an ultimate line and a overt agenda to streamlining continuity still producing books that **** around with continuity?! Continuity is only a problem if you start ****ing with it. Let people tell their stories and then leave. Don't start writing stories about other writer's stories! ****ing hell, why do they keep making the same goddam mistakes?!

Ok.... rant over.

The point was to not cut out characters completely but to correct them, if you will. I hardly think that Xorn is an option at this baby stage of the UU, but I wouldn't want him discounted...
 
Goodwill said:
I hardly think that Xorn is an option at this baby stage of the UU, but I wouldn't want him discounted...
That's fair, the fans demanded more Xorn, and look what happened.
The UU has so much more to do before they drag in poor plot devices.
Maybe wait until Baldy is writing UXM.
 
Guijllons said:
I don't get it.
If a writer kills off a character, and the character is dead, and they bring them back, then why did they kill them?

Stupid
Fresh start.

One instance was Psylocke's death. CC planned on having her ressurected only a few months after she died. It turned out taking alot longer for editorial reasons. The purpose of her death and resurrection was get rid of the Crimson Dawn powers.
 
Irish_4204 said:
Fresh start.

One instance was Psylocke's death. CC planned on having her ressurected only a few months after she died. It turned out taking alot longer for editorial reasons. The purpose of her death and resurrection was get rid of the Crimson Dawn powers.
Not good enough, they should think of a decent story to resolve those issues rather than killing someone.
Killing a character is a comic with the full intent of bringing them back is the most prolific form of unintelligence in the comic book genre.
 
Guijllons said:
Not good enough, they should think of a decent story to resolve those issues rather than killing someone.
Killing a character is a comic with the full intent of bringing them back is the most prolific form of unintelligence in the comic book genre.
I agree. The dead should stay dead especially if the character received an honorable death, but sadly it'll never be that way.
 
Absolutely correct, Guij.

It's also worth noting that in the 90s, we had Penance and M, Psylocke and Kwannon, Cable and Stryfe and on and on - twins of dead characters and all this nonsense.

And we still have it today.

And they have to gaul to pretend that what they're producing now is "fresh" and "new". ****ing bull****.
 
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Guijllons said:
I don't get it.
If a writer kills off a character, and the character is dead, and they bring them back, then why did they kill them?

Stupid

character deaths are an industry chain reaction...they are supposed to cause controversy and drama...which equal passion, which are supposed to make readers believe a story is better than it is...this then proceeds to market value and sales, that sparks a demand for the return of the character(which results in more sales) in most cases...

morrison left several clues that you can see after you reread the issues that xorn was mags...the guys at marvel felt xorn was too interesting to die off and brought him back.....sadly no one really can use him in a story the way morrison did.
 
The Captain said:
character deaths are an industry chain reaction...they are supposed to cause controversy and drama...which equal passion, which are supposed to make readers believe a story is better than it is...this then proceeds to market value and sales, that sparks a demand for the return of the character(which results in more sales) in most cases...
Yeah, and no different from those letters you get through the door telling you that you have won a car and all you have to do is call this number and quote your claim number.
It's bull****, it's unintelligent, it's not good fiction.
morrison left several clues that you can see after you reread the issues that xorn was mags...the guys at marvel felt xorn was too interesting to die off and brought him back.....sadly no one really can use him in a story the way morrison did.
If I re-read, and find the clues, then there is no doubt that these clues could have easily been incorporated by morrison once he had changed his mind, or had really decided that this is the course of action he was going to take.
Xorn was about for quite some time before there was any need for any suspicion.
I wasn't a fan of Morrison's run, nor of any of the little else I've read of his.
I feel that this arc was seen as so great, merely because X-Men had been dire for so long.
Xorn. bad bad bad
 
Guijllons said:
If I re-read, and find the clues, then there is no doubt that these clues could have easily been incorporated by morrison once he had changed his mind, or had really decided that this is the course of action he was going to take.
Agreed. All the MAJOR clues hinting at Xorn being Mags took place during the latter arcs -- specifically, "Riot At Xavier's" and "Murder At The Mansion" (Xorn revealing his identity to Quentin on his deathbed, and the boy's shocked reaction; Angel Salvatorre witnessing an unmasked Xorn fending off the army of Sublime's men, then staring in awe in response to what she saw, etc.). I'm with Guij on this -- the big reveal about Xorn's identity is likely to have been written on the fly.
 
Guys, while you may think Morrison may not have set it up, his track record would suggest otherwise. He often, when he starts a title, works out where the title is going, years down the road. The Invisibles, Animal Man, and Doom Patrol are all such titles. And I'd really recommend his Doom Patrol work, which is beautiful.
 

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