Punisher: War Zone (Spoilers)

I haven't seen this movie, but the thing I loved about Jane is that he really made you feel for the character. You felt or at least saw all the emotions going through him. Also since he almost dies several times you actually fear for his safety. I remember in the theater at the end when he's about to commit suicide I actually thought he was going to pull the trigger. The very well done scene actually had me forgetting about the logic of him dying in a film because I got so caught up in the moment.

This film just looks like a cheesy action film and I doubt they have the audience able to connect with castle on the same level for a couple of reasons. Again, just a guess
 
Random said:
I haven't seen this movie, but the thing I loved about Jane is that he really made you feel for the character. You felt or at least saw all the emotions going through him. Also since he almost dies several times you actually fear for his safety. I remember in the theater at the end when he's about to commit suicide I actually thought he was going to pull the trigger. The very well done scene actually had me forgetting about the logic of him dying in a film because I got so caught up in the moment.

This film just looks like a cheesy action film and I doubt they have the audience able to connect with castle on the same level for a couple of reasons. Again, just a guess
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Since when is Punisher about fealings though?

I mean he's always been about blowing criminals heads off.
 
Venom Melendez said:
Since when is Punisher about fealings though?

I mean he's always been about blowing criminals heads off.
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The guy lost his whole family, if you can't feel that loss too than the whole thing is pointless and you can't care about the character, his mission, or anything he does
 
Random said:
The guy lost his whole family, if you can't feel that loss too than the whole thing is pointless and you can't care about the character, his mission, or anything he does
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Yeah, but they always point out that what he's doing and how he goes about it is wrong.
 
Venom Melendez said:
Yeah, but they always point out that what he's doing and how he goes about it is wrong.
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and castle justifies it with his own explanation. ennis' punisher always explains the situation so you know what's going on but you don't also feel like you're being spoon fed info. blowing heads off is just a benefit to the twisted genius of punisher. but there's defintely alot more to him than just blowing heads off a mobster.
 
Saying that the point of the punisher is to have people heads blown off is a very closed minded way to look at the character, there is inner-turmoil to him that makes him a very interesting character, he's probably the best example of a true tragic hero in marvel's stable, but people see him far too 2-dimensionally

it's the same way with the Hulk, when a writer really gets the hulk, you get stuff like Peter David's run, and the better parts of Planet Hulk, when a writer doesn't get the Hulk you get contrived tantrums like in Jeph Loebs book.

when you pigeonhole a character like that it really limits potential story outlets, thats why Thomas Jane's punisher worked, and it's also why Stevenson's hasn't (haven't actually seen the movie, going from what I've heard about the movie, I'll rent it when it's out on DVD)

Take a look at what happened with Batman recently, the Nolans took a step back, and reconsiderred what Batman really is without any real preconceptions being presented on screen, this allowed for the rather brilliant rendition of the Batman Mythos presented in Begins and TDK, if they had gone into these movies thinking, well batman is all about beating up criminals and being angsty, that would have lead to another Bat-Bomb

you have to be alot more open-minded when considering these things
 
J. Agamemnon said:
and castle justifies it with his own explanation. ennis' punisher always explains the situation so you know what's going on but you don't also feel like you're being spoon fed info. blowing heads off is just a benefit to the twisted genius of punisher. but there's defintely alot more to him than just blowing heads off a mobster.
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Yeah you definitely need to understand the motivation or else it just becomes another generic action film. Which isn't bad but Jane set the bar for the sequel. That's something I don't like about requels, they automatically assume everything with the previous one was wrong without considering what worked
 
This wasn't a god-awful Punisher movie like the Dolph Lungdren version. There were things I liked about it and things I didn't like about it, just like the Thomas Jane version. I will say this: I feel that War Zone was a little more true to the source material. The New York setting was much more proper than Miami, and the appearances of Microchip and Soap were refreshing.

The antagonists were what I thought really made the story weak. Jigsaw and his brother, Loony Bin Jim, reminded me of Tommy Lee Jones and Jim Carrey as Two-Face and the Riddler, just not as well played (imagine that). Overall, the bad guys in this film were a little too over-the-top for my tastes, typical movie wiseguys (with horrible accents), typical movie Russian mobsters, typical movie 'bangers, typical movie Hell's Kitchen Irish (I almost expected a House of Pain reunion). Had those elements received a more organic approach then it may have had that punch that it just seemed to lack. It would'nt have been hard. For the wiseguys, guys like Tony Sirico, Steve Schirripa, Frank Vincent or Vincent Pastore aren't hard to find and they're always eager for work. For the Russians, an approach similar to Eastern Promises would've sufficed. For the Irish, just watch State of Grace. That was the problem. There was really no research done to make the villains worth a damn and they all came off as typical, cartoony, one-dimensional bad guys.

Ray Stevenson makes a great Frank Castle, though. I have no problems with his portrayal of the character and if they do make a sequel to this, I hope he returns. Just with a better supporting cast (except Julie Benz, she can play a babbling retard for 2 hours and I would watch her do it with great zeal), better direction and producers... and for god's sake, let Garth Ennis write the damn thing! Hopefully Marvel Studios will reacquire the film rights to this, keep Stevenson in the fold, and make the Punisher movie that defines all Punisher movies.

This could've been it, it just wasn't.
 
I just watched this and I was inredibley pleasently surprised

it had it's flaws, but this was a very decent movie

now I had terribley low expectations going in, and I'm not versed in the punisher like I am with most Marvel characters who get movies (all of Punisher War Journal, and the last 8 issue's of Ennis' run are all i've read with the character).

3.5/5 I'll post some more thoughts tomorrow I'm tired
 
I love The Punisher. I do. I even told a girl I would stab her in the eye with a toothpick if she ever said another disparaging remark about Frank Castle. So you can imagine the pain and anger I feel now.



This film breaks my heart. It really does. I was actually on the verge of tears while watching it and I can feel my eyes well up now while writing this. Just thinking about it makes my chest swell with pain and heartache.



I should've known this film would be this way from the jump. There were so many things we heard that were wrong about this film during creation that it was bound to be true. With every good bit of info we were fed…something bad went along with it:


  • Ray Stevenson replacing Jane in the sequel? Bad idea at first mention….but then you look and think about Stevenson as Castle and it makes sense and sounds promising. But then we're shown Stevenson in body armor. Bad.

  • You hear about the script writers being heavily influenced by Ennis' MAX line. Awesome! But then we hear about the storyline involving Jigsaw? Ugh…he should've stayed in campy 616.

  • The director is hardcore and has a warrior ethos about her when making the film hard and gritty as possible? Great. But she's fired a few months before release? What the hell?!?!?



I might not be so good with public math but that sounds like strike 3 to me.







As a diehard Punisher MAX fan, this film could've been great…but it wasn't. Instead it was a clichéd 90s action film with cheesy special effects (I mean come on…Frank punching a guy in the face so hard his fist goes thru his skull? Tough he may be…but Superman he is not!) and contrived dialogue. But for all its faults, to its credit, the film did give plenty of Easter Eggs to the MAX fans by throwing in various supporting characters like Pitsy, Ink, Maginty and some others. But too bad a majority of them were wasted. I mean turning the Russian mobster's father into Bulat (Yugoslavian villain from the MAX "Slavers" arc) instead of maybe actually being Russian General Zarkhov ("Man of Stone") is just a waste. Think of the build up for that!?!?!



It breaks my heart because this film was already done! It's not Iron Man or Hulk or Fantastic Four where you have to come up with a mesh of how to translate this one thing from comics to film. The source material is grounded in realism! Castle hanging from a chandelier shooting people Boondock Saints-style was stupid. There's no getting around that. And it's a shame we all had to see that because Ennis' version for how Frank took out a crime family at a big dinner/reunion was so much better and made more sense in terms of how Castle would act and operate. He might be ex-special ops….but that doesn't mean he's gotta get up close and go all Jason Bourne on the villains. He's gonna go the soldier route and plan a surprise attack with explosives, confine the enemy into an enclosed space, bottle-neck them so their numbers count for nothing, etc. NOT SWINGING FROM A ****ING CHANDELIER!!!!!



Don't even get me started on Jigsaw and his brother. How ****ing corny!!!! And then Loony Bin Jim hopping around like Tony Jaa or Jet Li? For what purpose!?!?!? It would've made more sense if he was just a scrapper who happens to bite. And what gangster would give himself a nickname like Jigsaw. I could see Billy "Jigsaw" Russo. But just saying "Billy Russoti is dead….call me….JIGSAW!" is just downright bad. Bad writing…bad acting…just bad.



Punisher: Warzone is THE worst Marvel film I've ever seen. I mean this in the most literal sense. I hope this film does so poorly that the studio decides that it is cost-ineffective to put it on DVD. Such a waste.







You can only imagine the rants and insanity that will ensue if anyone brings the DVD to HeroesCon in NC this coming summer. Houde-a-tary will be the least of your worries.
 
Victor Von Doom said:
II mean come on…Frank punching a guy in the face so hard his fist goes thru his skull? Tough he may be…but Superman he is not!) and contrived dialogue.
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To be fair, this would be credible if it were Warren Ellis' Punisher.


Victor Von Doom said:
Castle hanging from a chandelier shooting people Boondock Saints-style was stupid. There's no getting around that. And it's a shame we all had to see that because Ennis' version for how Frank took out a crime family at a big dinner/reunion was so much better and made more sense in terms of how Castle would act and operate. He might be ex-special ops….but that doesn't mean he's gotta get up close and go all Jason Bourne on the villains. He's gonna go the soldier route and plan a surprise attack with explosives, confine the enemy into an enclosed space, bottle-neck them so their numbers count for nothing, etc. NOT SWINGING FROM A ****ING CHANDELIER!!!!!
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I agree with this. Frank Castle is a very very very mortal "super"hero. While there are a great number of highly mortal action heroes who would swing from chandeliers and get up close and go all special ops, making a movie in which he does so prevents him from distinguishing himself from those kinds of movie action heroes.

Frank Castle is a comic hero inspired by action movies. Likewise movie Castle should be a comic adapted hero, defined against the context of comic adaptations. You do that by taking into account his physical vulnerability unlike Spider-Man and his ability to REVEL in psychological trouble without apologies unlike The Incredible Hulk and his resourcefulness in the face of no real income, unlike Iron Man.

Movie Punisher therefore, would make more sense, as Doom opines, in planning methodically his assaults on mobsters. In being tactical, in measuring the situation so that he's never placed in a situation where he faces potentially unnecessary mortal harm. He should do this without any apologies for brutality and disregard for an "honorable" faceoff, just as his mobster opponents approach a hit. And he should do this with half the budget of James Bond, without the apologeticness of Jason Bourne and not pretend to the resilience of John McClane.
 
Saw it today. I liked it. Most of the action really was awesome. I'm such a huge Ray Stevenson fan from ROME and I thought he did very well here. I hope he gets a ton of of broader and more A-list roles starting soon. There's not much else to say. Parts of it were stupid or weakly acted but overall.... it was just trying to be a hardcore action movie, and it was a damn good hardcore action movie.

It wasn't as good a movie as The Punisher(2004), but you know.... I think The Punisher is in a lot of ways a great movie, and I wasn't expecting this to happen here. But it was solid. It was fun.
 
The GF wants to rent this.....and I told her that if I ever see a copy of this film in this house, I'm gonna break and burn it. I don't care whose copy it is.
 
Victor Von Doom said:
The GF wants to rent this.....and I told her that if I ever see a copy of this film in this house, I'm gonna break and burn it. I don't care whose copy it is.
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I downloaded this a few days ago and watched it. Ugh. Couldn't agree more with your sentiments, VVD.

Exactly how was this movie taking itself or the subject matter seriously in ANY respect?
 
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