Star Trek discussion (Spoilers!)

[DARKKNIGHT]

Actually, apparently I'm worng about the black hole. Supposedly at some point Spock and the Romulans warped out of the solar system to another place where the black hole occured. I was not aware of this happening and was told lately, so. . . that's another failure on the director.

Or that's a failure on your part for not paying attention. It was pretty clear for me at least. They say something like "He went into warp speed [or whatever it is called" to which Nero tells them to follow Spock. It then shows them shooting off into space. I thought it was pretty clear.

 

[Joe Kalicki]

Or that's a failure on your part for not paying attention. It was pretty clear for me at least. They say something like "He went into warp speed [or whatever it is called" to which Nero tells them to follow Spock. It then shows them shooting off into space. I thought it was pretty clear.

I wasn't the only one confused, so the failure is Abrams'.

 

[E]

This is my favorite sci-fi movie ever, the most fun movie I've ever seen, and a huge improvement to a lame franchise that I could not possibly have cared less about before seeing this. I loved every second of it.

This is the best film i've seen all year... Coraline might have it beat in sheer quality, but this films very few weak points are outdone by its astounding enjoyability.

Seriously... I want this cast to be doing Star Trek movies for the next 15 years.

Totally agreed.

Okay, Lucas, the Trekkies are winning for the first time in almost twenty years. Trouble is, I don't think Star Wars is capable of a renewal like the one I just witnessed in the move theaters. Sucks to be them.

Also totally agreed, as much as it pains me to admit it.

Should Spock not find it logical to find a vulcan woman to breed with to preserve more vulcan DNA....

Good point!

I'm pretty sure most of the people that loved it had little to no connection to Star Trek and hence this isn't a criticism with us.

Exactly. For me, anyway.

not more stupid, less nerdy.

Post of the Day.

 

[Gothamite]

I agree with Kalicki, 100%.

This really isn't Star Trek at all. It's barely even science fiction. It's an excellent, fun, flashy fantasy film, with fantasy characters that have no relevance to Earth and are in no way satirical, whatsoever. Kirk could have been from Pluto and it would have made no difference. It had nothing to do with the human condition, racial tolerance, or even exploration. This movie could actually have been called Star Wars and it would have been more on the money as most of the scenes in space were loud and flashy battles and at no point did the Enterprise actually 'trek' anywhere.

As much as I loved this film, it was absolutely a dumbing down of Trek, so that the hot young moviegoers and Shia LeBoeuf-lovers of the world would pay for cinema tickets. It was less a case of JJ 'revitalising the franchise' as being the guy who had balls enough to wave the white flag and choose flash over substance, because that's what people really want to see. Other than the clever dialogue and the excellent acting, any idiot could have made this movie. Most of the people calling it a 'huge improvement' and 'the best Star Trek movie ever' are people who have openly admitted that they weren't interested in the franchise at all beforehand, so I have no interest in their opinion (but it probably doesn't make any difference, because as evidenced by hilarious Onion videos and pictures of ambulances, they probably have no interest in mine).

But as I said, it was insanely fun, the dialogue was snappy, punchy and sleek, the characters were all portrayed extremely well and Chris Pine is so awesome it made my balls ache. I can't see any of the other Summer films being as much fun as this was.

9/10 in its own context.

Where's Ourchair's review?

 

[Doublehex]

Star Trek XI is making me watch TOS.

And you know what?

It's not that bad. Why is there so much stigma? Spock has pointy ears and weird eyebrows. So frakking what? So does Legolas, but all of the girls love him!

 

[DARKKNIGHT]

I wasn't the only one confused, so the failure is Abrams'.

I respectfully disagree. I think it was pretty blatant and that most people caught it. You can't blame the director for some people not catching a plot point, when that plot point is clear as day.

I agree with Kalicki, 100%.

This really isn't Star Trek at all. It's barely even science fiction. It's an excellent, fun, flashy fantasy film, with fantasy characters that have no relevance to Earth and are in no way satirical, whatsoever. Kirk could have been from Pluto and it would have made no difference. It had nothing to do with the human condition, racial tolerance, or even exploration. This movie could actually have been called Star Wars and it would have been more on the money as most of the scenes in space were loud and flashy battles and at no point did the Enterprise actually 'trek' anywhere.

As much as I loved this film, it was absolutely a dumbing down of Trek, so that the hot young moviegoers and Shia LeBoeuf-lovers of the world would pay for cinema tickets. It was less a case of JJ 'revitalising the franchise' as being the guy who had balls enough to wave the white flag and choose flash over substance, because that's what people really want to see. Other than the clever dialogue and the excellent acting, any idiot could have made this movie. Most of the people calling it a 'huge improvement' and 'the best Star Trek movie ever' are people who have openly admitted that they weren't interested in the franchise at all beforehand, so I have no interest in their opinion (but it probably doesn't make any difference, because as evidenced by hilarious Onion videos and pictures of ambulances, they probably have no interest in mine).

But as I said, it was insanely fun, the dialogue was snappy, punchy and sleek, the characters were all portrayed extremely well and Chris Pine is so awesome it made my balls ache. I can't see any of the other Summer films being as much fun as this was.

9/10 in its own context.

Where's Ourchair's review?

I can appreciate where you guys are coming from. I knew nothing about Star Trek going into this, so my perception of the film is going to be radically different from those that know all about it. Looking at it as a movie it was awesome. I really can't judge it compared to other Star Trek films/shows/books because I know nothing about them. Saying that this isn't Star Trek seems kinda silly to me. It's akin to saying that the new Daniel Craig Bond movies aren't James Bond movies, because of the differences from past movies.

 

[Lynx]

I'm actually getting really frustrated with people saying "This isn't Star Trek and if you think it is, well, you aren't a TRUE fan."

I grew up with Star Trek and I thought it was just as "Trek" as some of the best TOS episodes or even the Wrath of Khan. It just seems incredibly pretentious and arrogant to assume that other Trek fans wouldn't think this is Trek.

 

[Doublehex]

I can understand perfectly where Gothamite and Joe are coming from.

This new Star Trek... it isn't Star Trek. To us newcomers, to us Star Trek virgins, it is Star Trek. But for the fans? This isn't the Star Trek they remember. The Star Trek that had a greater deal of focus on characters, and the idea of exploration, and just being a smarter strain of Sci-Fi than Star Wars...this new Star Trek isn't what they know as Star Trek.

It's different. In some ways it is better, but in many other ways, it is worse. It is "dumb". Is it smartly written, with a good villain, great acting, and an awesome cast? Absolutely! It is still smarter than most Summer block busters.

But it was still dumbed down from the old Star Trek.

It reminds me alot of Fallout 3. I played Fallout 1. Fallout 3 wasn't Fallout.

Just now the perspectives have turned. *I* am the ignorant newcomer, and the other people are the "wise, well placed fans that were 'betrayed'".

Just my .50.

 

[bluebeast]

Actually, apparently I'm worng about the black hole. Supposedly at some point Spock and the Romulans warped out of the solar system to another place where the black hole occured. I was not aware of this happening and was told lately, so. . . that's another failure on the director.

I thought it was pretty apparent in the film.

 

[Doublehex]

Actually, apparently I'm wrong about the black hole. Supposedly at some point Spock and the Romulans warped out of the solar system to another place where the black hole occurred. I was not aware of this happening and was told lately, so. . . that's another failure on the director.

I thought it was pretty apparent in the film.

Agreed. It made perfect sense to me.

Then again, the whole MATRIX trilogy not only made perfect sense to me, it is one of my most favorite movie trilogies of all time.

 

[Jaggyd]

Saw it, loved it.

It was just as Trek as the stuff on this list;

http://www.mania.com/star-treks-6-ridiculous-alien-races_article_114942.html


Just because you can do sociopolitical analogues doesn't mean you should.

Lastly, someone complained that there was no exploration so that was part of what made it "not Star Trek", so by that logic, in the TOS Generation where Kirk & Co. time traveled to fight Nazis or save the whales on EARTH, or TNG's The Best of Both Worlds, or First Contact, aren't Trek either. Hell, if you use that logic, the only Trek series that dealt solely with "exploration" was Voyager.

 

[Joe Kalicki]

I think it's pretty condescending of fans of the new Star Trek to just dismiss the opinions of long time fans because they have a popular new property. It's like anyone who has a problem with the movie is just being whiney for the sake of it and can't have legitimate concerns.

For the record, it seems like all the old time Trek fans really do like the movie a lot, but liking a movie and thinking it's some perfect creation of God are two difefrent things.

 

[Jaggyd]

I think it's pretty condescending of fans of the new Star Trek to just dismiss the opinions of long time fans because they have a popular new property. It's like anyone who has a problem with the movie is just being whiney for the sake of it and can't have legitimate concerns.

For the record, it seems like all the old time Trek fans really do like the movie a lot, but liking a movie and thinking it's some perfect creation of God are two difefrent things.

But no one has yet to give a legitimate reason, that can't be shot down by one of many episodes of their precious TOS. This is why Star Trek will never be as successful as Star Wars, or even nBSG, the fans.



And as someone who generally loathed nBSG, they handled the "human condition" in a MUCH more realistic way than Trek ever did.

 

[DARKKNIGHT]

I think it's pretty condescending of fans of the new Star Trek to just dismiss the opinions of long time fans because they have a popular new property. It's like anyone who has a problem with the movie is just being whiney for the sake of it and can't have legitimate concerns.

For the record, it seems like all the old time Trek fans really do like the movie a lot, but liking a movie and thinking it's some perfect creation of God are two difefrent things.

I think you are assuming that all of the "old" Trek fans have the same opinion of the film. From what I've read here and on other forums this is not the case. There's a difference between dismissing long time fans' opinions and challenging them. Is this a bit different from previous Star Trek stuff? Sure, but I think that had to happen to keep the franchise going.

 

[Lynx]

I think it's pretty condescending of fans of the new Star Trek to just dismiss the opinions of long time fans because they have a popular new property. It's like anyone who has a problem with the movie is just being whiney for the sake of it and can't have legitimate concerns.

For the record, it seems like all the old time Trek fans really do like the movie a lot, but liking a movie and thinking it's some perfect creation of God are two difefrent things.

I don't think that at all. I'm a fan of most of the original five series (Well, VOY and ENT less, but still) AND a fan of the new movie.

I'm just getting frustrated with old fans saying it's not Trek. Which, in my opinion, is bull****.

 

[Joe Kalicki]

But no one has yet to give a legitimate reason, that can't be shot down by one of many episodes of their precious TOS. This is why Star Trek will never be as successful as Star Wars, or even nBSG, the fans.



And as someone who generally loathed nBSG, they handled the "human condition" in a MUCH more realistic way than Trek ever did.

No one has yet to give a legitimate reason for what?

I think you are assuming that all of the "old" Trek fans have the same opinion of the film. From what I've read here and on other forums this is not the case. There's a difference between dismissing long time fans' opinions and challenging them. Is this a bit different from previous Star Trek stuff? Sure, but I think that had to happen to keep the franchise going.

How am I assuming all the old Trek fans have the same opinion of the film.

I think you guys are blindly defending something you like against anybody who just didn't love it as much.

 

[Jaggyd]

I think you are assuming that all of the "old" Trek fans have the same opinion of the film. From what I've read here and on other forums this is not the case. There's a difference between dismissing long time fans' opinions and challenging them. Is this a bit different from previous Star Trek stuff? Sure, but I think that had to happen to keep the franchise going.

What amuses me greatly, Kaliki's complaints almost perfectly mirror the "True Fans'" complaints with TNG when it came out. I was a teenager when it debuted, and I remember reading borderline death threats in Starlog about the new show. This is what I mean by the fans preventing Trek from being successful, the hard core Trekkers/Trekkies are akin to the Republican party right now. "CHANGE IS BADDD!!" and gods forbid the borderline Anti-Commie propaganda is ignored in the new movies, and Kirk is banging a green chick in the vicinity of Earth instead of Theti Alpha 6.

No one has yet to give a legitimate reason for what?



How am I assuming all the old Trek fans have the same opinion of the film.

I think you guys are blindly defending something you like against anybody who just didn't love it as much.

*templerubs* I was responding to your "I think it's pretty condescending of fans of the new Star Trek to just dismiss the opinions of long time fans because they have a popular new property. It's like anyone who has a problem with the movie is just being whiney for the sake of it and can't have legitimate concerns."

So, let me slow it down for you. The complaints that this movie is less than Trek, there are zero legitimate reasons for that complaint other than "bawww I don't like change!!". Because the reasons given can be EASILY shot down with examples from your precious TV shows and previous movies.

This isn't blindly doing ****, this is you and other Trekkers being afraid of changes and afraid of admitting you're wrong.

 

[DARKKNIGHT]

How am I assuming all the old Trek fans have the same opinion of the film.

Here:

I think it's pretty condescending of fans of the new Star Trek to just dismiss the opinions of long time fans because they have a popular new property.

What you are more or less saying, at least this is how I interpreted it, is that your opinions represent those of the long time fans. What I am saying is that you can't say that what you think is representative of what all "old" Trek fans think.

And no, I am not blindly defending anything. I would say that you are blindly attacking it. You really haven't brought up any legitimate reasons why it is a bad movie in general, or a bad Star Trek movie in particular.

 

[Doublehex]

I think it's pretty condescending of fans of the new Star Trek to just dismiss the opinions of long time fans because they have a popular new property.

Uh, what I think Joe means by the above quote is thus:

It is not right for those who are fan of Star Trek XI to just plainly ignore the legitimate complains of long time Trekkies who are not. They do have legitimate concerns - they feel it has a totally different feel and atmosphere than from the previous 700+ episodes and 10 movies.

It got turned one hell of an awesome action movie. An action movie with lovable characters, a damned good plot, and an awesome villain (IMHO), but it is not, in these Trekkie's eyes, Star Trek. It is just something that has the title, and maybe some familiar elements of it, and nothing else.

It just doesn't has the spirit of Star Trek in it.

And like I said, this is a very legitimate concern.

So, that is another .50 cents from me.

 

[Jaggyd]

Uh, what I think Joe means by the above quote is thus:

It is not right for those who are fan of Star Trek XI to just plainly ignore the legitimate complains of long time Trekkies who are not. They do have legitimate concerns - they feel it has a totally different feel and atmosphere than from the previous 700+ episodes and 10 movies.

It got turned one hell of an awesome action movie. An action movie with lovable characters, a damned good plot, and an awesome villain (IMHO), but it is not, in these Trekkie's eyes, Star Trek. It is just something that has the title, and maybe some familiar elements of it, and nothing else.

It just doesn't has the spirit of Star Trek in it.

And like I said, this is a very legitimate concern.

So, that is another .50 cents from me.

But the problem is, they're wrong, 110%. This is no more or less like anything that's come before. As I've pointed out before, hard core old Trek fans will stick their heads in the sand when you point out where Roddenberry himself has done something just like what they're complaining about. This is turning out to be just like the launch of TNG, old fans clinging to their memories of the past.