Star Trek General Discussion Thread

[Gothamite]

I started this thread because the reasonably dead "J.J. Abrams' Star Trek Movie" thread was basically turning into this.

Discuss your favourite series, why you like it, why you don't like it, what you hope will be featured in future incarnations, etc.

Star Trek Related Thoughts:

- I just watched this scene again and I still stand by my claim that it's my favourite scene of any Trek-related media.

- I've started reading Avenger by Shatner himself and it's pretty good. Not thought-provoking philosiphical Trek, just good, fast-paced action Trek. I love the Shatnerverse books because Shatner writes Kirk as being truly larger than life, almost to comedic effect ("his iron-muscled arm reached out valiantly...").

- I've decided that I prefer the TOS crew and setting, but I prefer TNG as a show. TOS' crew are a bit more gritty and all-American (even though you've got Scotty, Sulu and Chekov who are all foreigners) and the Enterprise is more of a 'rough' military ship. The Enterprise-D is more of a ship on which you'd go on a luxury cruise with your whole family. They don't even have real alcohol. However, there's little doubt in my mind that Star Trek: The Next Generation is one of the greatest shows created by man or God. Wesley aside, the show eventually gets so good and entertaining that 'run of the mill' episodes are better than all of the Smallville season finales thrown together. I was watching a bog-standard Season 5 episode where nothing unusual happened (while visiting a colonised planet, the crew are attacked by a spacial anomaly known as the Crystalline Entity) but it was brilliant. TOS is just a great show for what it is, and is an achievement in itself especially considering when it was made. Also, opinions are irrelevant: Shatner rules the universe.

- Uhura in all of her appearances (you heard me): I'd hit that. Go on. Judge me.

 

[ourchair]

Uhura in all of her appearances (you heard me): I'd hit that. Go on. Judge me.

Even in Star Trek VI?!?!! :shock:

I can see what you mean though. She was pretty smoking hot, and I think --- not to be racist --- part of that has to do with the fact that she doesn't have very traditional African-American features.

I totally agree with you in how you divide your feelings between TOS and TNG. I think this is the reason why I have always been in favor of a remake. I love the adventurism of the former, but I want the intelligence of the latter.

I actually have a kind of wonky not all too perfect idea of how i wanted to marry those two ideas, but I never posted it when I came up with it --- shortly after I started the Abrams thread --- because at the time, nobody seemed interested enough in Star Trek for me to think about posting it.

Basically, I wanted it to be a sort of developmental futurism drama.

 

[Hellsbuttmonkey]

Just to throw a different tangent into the mix..

DS9. Best Trek Series.

I loved the show, not so much the earlier stuff with the Maquis crap and such, but as the series built up and hit it's stride with the introduction of the Defiant, the Dominion, and the War. Way of the Warrior was one of the greatest Trek 2 parters in history, and scene in the final episode, when you have Sisko vs the Pah Wraith charged Dukat was just godlike..


But TNG will always get the gold star for greatest episode. Best of Both Worlds.

 

[Bass]

Good thread, Gothamite.

 

[SSJmole]

Star Trek: The Next Generation was In my opiniion the best of the trek series

 

[Gothamite]

Even in Star Trek VI?!?!! :shock:

You heard me. Undiscovered Country was only a couple of years after teh hotness of teh nakenedness dance in Final Frontier, so I'm still game.

 

[Bass]

:sure:

Aaaaaaaaanyway.... I think my fave STAR TREK is Teh Next Gen3rat1on lol.

Simply because it's the one that got me into it. However, I think TOS is undeniably the best show... but this is about faves and dammit - of all the Treks there have been, I want to be on the bridge of the Enterprise-D the most. It's the most familiar, and most enticing for me.

 

[Gothamite]

:sure:

Aaaaaaaaanyway.... I think my fave STAR TREK is Teh Next Gen3rat1on lol.

Simply because it's the one that got me into it. However, I think TOS is undeniably the best show... but this is about faves and dammit - of all the Treks there have been, I want to be on the bridge of the Enterprise-D the most. It's the most familiar, and most enticing for me.

I heard that back when TNG was still only new and was getting negative responses from fans who wanted it to be a replica of the old show, they mentioned that the bridge of the Enterprise D looked like the lobby of a Regency Hotel. :lol:

I don't mind the D, but it's just not very badass. It looks like a cruise liner. For sheer animosity and comfort, try the Enterprise E (Next Gen movies). That's where it's at.

 

[Bass]

The Enterprise-D is meant to look like a cruise liner. That's why it has families on board and why it has a separate battle bridge.

I kinda like that innocence - that a military starship is also a cruise liner with a bar and recreational holodeck.

Now, the ship has to be super badass and every time it does anything... someone dies.

 

[SSJmole]

Here's how I rank them

• TNG
• DSN
• Enterprise
• Cartoon
• Voyager
• TOS

Even though it's not my number 1 series I think DSN is highly under rated by a lot of people , it had a hell of a lot of great ideas and interesting characters

 

[Ice]

I'm not really a fan of Star Trek, but I remember the first time I was watching one of the Indiana movies (I think I was 6 or 7) there was a scene that scared me so much that I went to the living room to watch something else. That something else ended up being an episode of Star Trek.


Just thought I'd share that.

 

[Bass]

Here's how I rank them

• TNG
• DSN
• Enterprise
• Cartoon
• Voyager
• TOS

Even though it's not my number 1 series I think DSN is highly under rated by a lot of people , it had a hell of a lot of great ideas and interesting characters

I own every episode of DS9 and a lot of it is pretty damn sweet.

However, you can't be paying attention to your list. There is no way, NO WAY, Enterprise and/or Voyager is better than TOS. DS9 and TNG, okay, I'll agree to disagree. But ENT and VOY?! Come on, Moley!

 

[ourchair]

I own every episode of DS9 and a lot of it is pretty damn sweet.

However, you can't be paying attention to your list. There is no way, NO WAY, Enterprise and/or Voyager is better than TOS. DS9 and TNG, okay, I'll agree to disagree. But ENT and VOY?! Come on, Moley!

To be fair to Mole, you only start realizing Enterprise is garbage once you've finished the first season.

They drop the ball over and over but you don't notice because you're too busy being wowzed by the retro-future OMG-i-can-see-my-house-from-this-here-Holodeck tongue in cheek hoo ha and almost Ultimatization stuff, and by the time you're done it's like, "HEY! Wait a minute! That's a load of bull****."

It's like it becomes bad only when you're done with it.

.....


That said, I grew up with TOS. My older sister --- you know, the one from Law & Order --- was a big Trekkie and I saw most of them with her. She even had her own secret Star Trek clique of friends and her own secret Star Trek name and Star Trek rank and all that, and a bunch of DC Comics. So while TNG was running, we were junking on nothing but TOS

I wasn't until I was in college and I was staying at a relatives place that I actually 'got into' Star Trek via Voyager. I used to love Voyager a lot, but now I hate it with a passion. Which is a shame, because they had better actors but lousier scripts.

I hear DS9 is somewhere in between TNG and VOY/ENT, but I could never follow it because not only did it broadcast on a completely different network from where Voyager was being aired, but they never showed ANY of the episodes in ANY fashion resembling order. Not reverse-chronological, not half odd-numbered and half even-numbered. There was NO order.

Anyway, so I used to love Voyager, but like an ex-best-friend I'd kick it in the nuts if i ever saw it again.

 

[SSJmole]

I own every episode of DS9 and a lot of it is pretty damn sweet.

However, you can't be paying attention to your list. There is no way, NO WAY, Enterprise and/or Voyager is better than TOS. DS9 and TNG, okay, I'll agree to disagree. But ENT and VOY?! Come on, Moley!

I ranked them in favourite , I never liked the original except cartoon now and again and a couple of the movies.


Enterprise I enjoyed alot , the cartoon now and again , voyager I enjoyed like 2 or 3 episodes but original not at all.

 

[Gothamite]

• TNG
• DSN
• Enterprise
• Cartoon
• Voyager
• TOS

- TNG

- TOS (Even though I've only seen a handful of episodes, I'm really getting into it, lately. It also has the second best theme tune, which helps. )

- Voyager (Only because I've seen a lot of episodes and I like a lot of the characters)

- Enterprise (I really tried to enjoy it back when it was on, because it was the only Trek show that was still on and I had only recently gotten into Star Trek. But the fact remains: it sucked).

I've actually never seen full episode of DS9. It's not shown over here anymore (which is weird, because TNG is still on a couple of times a week and Voyager has been shown twice a day on Sky One constantly since it was cancelled).

Also, from what I can gather, the premise basically condenses everything that was wrong with the 24th Century era of Star Trek: an overly civilised Starfleet adventure where the crew just sit around and talk and never actually go anywhere. The entire feeling of adventure and rugged, masculine Kirkish "We can go anywhere," feel of TOS would seem to be completely abolished in favour of a story more centered around interstellar politics.

But from the fan reactions that this show seems to get, I imagine it's a really good show that so often succeeded where Voyager failed (more attention to continuity and characters and less repetitive plots). If they re-air it, I'll probably start watching it.

 

[Bass]

I hear DS9 is somewhere in between TNG and VOY/ENT, but I could never follow it because not only did it broadcast on a completely different network from where Voyager was being aired, but they never showed ANY of the episodes in ANY fashion resembling order. Not reverse-chronological, not half odd-numbered and half even-numbered. There was NO order.

There are some fantastic episodes in that show, that I heartily recommend.

I ranked them in favourite , I never liked the original except cartoon now and again and a couple of the movies.

Enterprise I enjoyed alot , the cartoon now and again , voyager I enjoyed like 2 or 3 episodes but original not at all.

When it comes to the original series... you just have to go, "This was made in the 60s. This will look stupid. The music will be stupid. The effects will suck." Once you accept that, be prepared for some incredible storytelling and characters.

There are some amazing episodes. THE GALILEO SEVEN is one of my favourites. It has awful effects - the 'monsters' are terrible costumes, the weapons and rocks they throw are obviously made of styrofoam, but it doesn't matter because the story is this: Spock is commanding a shuttlecraft, the Galileo 7, and it crashes onto a planet. The Enterprise is searching for the shuttle, but are on a deadline and have to leave the system. Spock has to wrestle with the dangers of the planet, a resentful crew, and a broken shuttlecraft and save everyone. What's brilliant is how Spock works. Spock is a rare gem of writing - he's actually smarter than the writers. A lot of writers think writing someone smarter than themselves involves given them omniscience over the plot (look at most tv detectives for this) or they speak with big words (look at most other Treks) - but Spock is SMART. He solves puzzles and problems with elegant ease. And this episode is one big puzzle and Spock finds it insanely hard to solve. It gets more and more desperate and Spock remains emotionless, logical, and keeps going.

The story is simple, but it's told brilliantly in how Spock works. There are others like this one.

THE CORBOMITE MANEUVER is this: The Enterprise meets another alien ship they know nothing about. It holds them in place and says, "I'm going to kill you." It's vastly superior. How does Kirk get the crew out of it? Brilliantly. This episode has almost no space battles of any kind - and it's one of the best ship vs ship episodes ever.

The premise to A TASTE OF ARMAGEDDON is brilliant: The Enterprise goes to a planet where they fight a war using computers. If a computer simulated attack kills 3000 people, those 3000 people march to the disintegrators and die. This way, the war can wage but the culture and artifacts remain in place for the future. During one attack - the Enterprise is 'hit' and must be surrendered for destruction...

THE DOOMSDAY MACHINE is, essentially, an automated Death Star. Enterprise vs Death Star.

Basically, if you sit down to TOS and expect cool laser fights - you'll always be disappointed. But if you sit down for a great story with great characters, the ones I mention won't disappoint.

I only got into TOS last year, and I couldn't believe how good some of it was. There's some real tosh, but man - the good stuff is just terrific.

 

[Gothamite]

When it comes to the original series... you just have to go, "This was made in the 60s. This will look stupid. The music will be stupid. The effects will suck." Once you accept that, be prepared for some incredible storytelling and characters.

There's an obvious remedy for this: Remastered Episodes. Take it from someone who's never really seen that many of the TOS episodes with their 'normal' effects: The new effects are amazing and make the show abundantly easier to watch.

I only got into TOS last year, and I couldn't believe how good some of it was. There's some real tosh, but man - the good stuff is just terrific.

I've only seen a handful of episodes and already I can't believe the bad rep it has amongst the general community, who regard it as a campy, silly-but-fun 1960's affair, akin to the Batman show. This show is only campy in its set design and costuming. The actors (even Shatner, despite what you might hear) are all excellent and the writing is stellar at best. For new fans, I'd highly recommend checking out the remastered episodes: the opening theme alone will have you hooked.

 

[Bass]

That's it exactly, Gothamite.

The actors and the characters they play are all terrific.

 

[Gothamite]

I hope they show the remastered episodes over here at some point. BBC have the rights to the Original Series but they never really show it (they occasionally air "Where No Man has Gone Before" to plug awkward slots, I imagine). BBC are raking in the awards and the praise for Doctor Who at the moment and that's far more colourful and silly than TOS ever was. I think now would be an ideal time to start showing TOS (and not on one of those obscure digital channels like BBC 4).

Star Trek on BBC would be paradise because BBC don't have ads in their programming (heaven).

 

[Ultimate Houde]

You know, while I never liked Space operas or dramas, I did watch Deep Space nine religiously, so I was probably too hasty in saying I didn't like any of them.