DIrishB
The Timeline Guy
Dr.Strangefate said:
Wait, there are two Cable's? Is that where Stryfe came from? Sorry, while my Ultimate knowledge is nigh omnipotent, my 616 knowledge is severly limited.
Ultimate Cable
- Thread starter MaxwellSmart
- Start date
Wait, there are two Cable's? Is that where Stryfe came from? Sorry, while my Ultimate knowledge is nigh omnipotent, my 616 knowledge is severly limited.
DIrishB
The Timeline Guy
TheManWithoutFear said:
Oh come on dude, you're starting to get a little big-headed with this stuff. No offense, because I can appreciate you're trying to keep the thread on-topic, but it was one post in response to another post directly related to speculation from something derived from this very issue. Its not like it went off on some huge, weird tangent (which is something many of my other posts cause, but not this one). Again, I understand you're trying to help, but you're not a mod (yet) so do yourself a favor and relax. Not trying to start a whole thing, just saying allow people a bit of leeway. Even the mods aren't as quick to jump on people as you seem to be. Anyway, as to your questions:
He's already left them twice, once after RoTK and once after Cry Wolf...he just came back matter of fact at the end of the last arc, so I think it might be a bit soon for him to leave yet again. As for his and Fury's relationship, I don't think it'll be affected too much. It wasn't by their personal fight in Nightmare, nor their previous altercation in Ultimate War. Its possible, but based on how its been handled in the past I'd say no.
Dr.Strangefate
He Sees You When You're Sleeping. He Knows When Yo
DIrishB said:
When the baby Nathan Christopher Summers was taken to the future by an older Rachel Summers to try to save him from the techno organic virus, Rachel cloned a Virus free body to transfer his mind to, should the virus take over...
Apocalypse stole the cloned baby and raised him into becoming his heir, Stryfe.
Nate Grey was cloned from Cyclops and Jean in the Age of Apocalypse, and got into the 616 universe with the M'kraan crystal...
The sad thing is I knew all that off the top of my head.
DIrishB
The Timeline Guy
Dr.Strangefate said:
Thanks for that Doc, except now I'm more confused. Ok, we had the original Nate Summers, who was taken to the future by Rachel and later became Cable.
Stryfe was a clone of the original Nate who was stolen and raised by Apocalypse.
And then another clone was created from Cyke and Jean in AoA? Is this the one who became X-Man? You know, the young looking Cable?
Sorry, like I said, trying to bone up on my 616 history.
DIrishB
The Timeline Guy
TheManWithoutFear said:
Yeah, it would be a believable way of introducing Rachel to the Ultimate verse. Far as I can recall we've only met Jean's father in Ultimate War (how come they didn't show up at the end of RoTK when all the other parent's did?)
TheManWithoutFear
#1 reason not to join UC
I won't lie.... Cable is the most interesting character in Marvelhistory.
People who don't like him are totally into him and want to see him Ultimized this is probably the most popular ultimization... I can't til they handle him regardless of who he's associated with....
I hope he isn't with APOCOLYPSE or the SUMMER'S I want him as his own man.
People who don't like him are totally into him and want to see him Ultimized this is probably the most popular ultimization... I can't til they handle him regardless of who he's associated with....
I hope he isn't with APOCOLYPSE or the SUMMER'S I want him as his own man.
DIrishB
The Timeline Guy
TheManWithoutFear said:
You a bit tipsy MWoF? Your posts don't usually contain spelling errors and total skipped over words.
Hawkeye101
Well-Known Member
I still believe Rachel and Nathan should be twins. I read Cable/Deadpool (the second arc), and I loved it! Iceman makes a comment about "Don't worry Rachel we deal with the half-silbing by diffent cloned mothers all the time!". Which works in 616 Marvel. But in Ultimate Marvel, even you all said time travel is risky. I think that Nate and Rachel should just be Scott and Jean's children. I guess they don't even have to be twins. It just seems that the two of them are 'really' frickin' powerful, she inherit's her mother's Phoenix abilities, and he inherits his mother's psychic abilities, the destruction and creation of the world. That's all I'm sayin'. And there probably shouldn't be an Ultimate Techno virus, I'm content with Nate just having a mutant metal arm. I'm tired of the whole, Scott and Jean are in love, but they can't stay together long enough to enjoy themselves. Keep it simple, Nate and rachel are Scott and Jean's kids, keep it new, no time travel and no 'different moms who are clones of the same mother'.
TheManWithoutFear
#1 reason not to join UC
DIrishB said:You a bit tipsy MWoF? Your posts don't usually contain spelling errors and total skipped over words.
Guilty.
And Hawkeye101
Cool you read C/DP and the second arc is really really great.
If you want to keep it "new" why have Cable associated with Jean and Scott at all. If anything it's so pointless at this time in the 616 no one even cares they're related the relation was a plot point used when Cable first appeared but they rarely even acknowledge it anymore. Even in "The Burnt Offering" when Cable was talking with Scott it seemed so forced.
Hawkeye101
Well-Known Member
TheManWithoutFear said:
It seemed forced? :sure: I strongly think that Cable and Rachel should be straight up siblings. I can see Nathan being somekind of juvenile delinquent and Rachel being the perfect student and stuff. They'd be opposetts but would have to work together to save everbody or something. Maybe in a 'Futureistic' arc for the Ultimate Universe or something. And of course I believe that they should be the children of Scott and Jean.
Ice
Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
That idea would work out good, I'd say.Hawkeye101 said:
Hawkeye101
Well-Known Member
icemastertron said:
And on top of that, (if it were a Ultimate Future arc or something) Ultimate Magik, Ultimate Wildthing, and others could be with them as the new Ultimate X-Men.
ourchair
Well-Known Member
There should be an entire 37 page web site devoted to explaining everything about Cable and the multiversal continuity of the Summers family a la Life of Reilly.
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Dr.Strangefate
He Sees You When You're Sleeping. He Knows When Yo
Hawkeye101 said:
Okay, that would work, but thats if they want to introduce them as babies, and have them age with normal time.
What purpose would a Future arc have? It only limits what's possible, rather than expands....
I don't think that Ultimate Cable or Ultimate Pheonix II should be Summers
I do think that Nate Grey should be the son of Scott and Jean, but raised only by Jean... Something tells me that Scott is afraid of being a father (because he's an orphan, etc)... but he should stay a baby, and maybe in five years have his mutant abilities start to develop, and Apocalypse wants the body for when that happens... Ultimate Cable should be a separate entity altogether...
If we want rachel, and i think she's a great character, she should be introduced as a Teenager, as Jean Grey's sister.
I don't see why there is any benefit from Rachel and Nathan being siblings...
TheManWithoutFear
#1 reason not to join UC
The man has spoken.Dr.Strangefate said:
Ice
Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
Why take out the sister she already has just to put in her?Dr.Strangefate said:
Hawkeye101
Well-Known Member
Dr.Strangefate said:
If Rachel was Jean's sister, then where was she when the Wasp came and visited Dr. Grey at the grey household? Jean seems to be an only child. And still believe certain aspects should remain the same. Nathan Sommers, and Rachel Sommers should be Cable and Pheonix II (except since Jean's code name is still Marvel Girl, she could just be Phoenix), and the children of Scott and Jean. NO time manipulation. Nate and Rachel grow up normally as two mutant prodigies. NO techno virus, cable can have a mutated metal arm if need be. An I am sick of the straight male sterio type, where they don't want to be fathers. Ugh! I'm sick of it. I'm a straigh guy and I welcome the thought of children. Scott doesn't seem like the kind of guy who whould abandon Jean at the news of a child. They live for free in a mansion for Christ's Sake! What worries would Scott have as a dad?
As for the two of them being full siblings, there is no more reason than any of you and yoyur siblings. As much as I think Cyclops is a pushover, I am still tired of him and Jean not being 'happy'. So many things screw up between the two of them. I would just love to see the relationship crap between them stop, and let them have their family.
Cable can cunstuct anything he wants with his powers, and the Phoenix is a distructive force. Apocalype could want the two of them, so Rachel can destroy the world and Cable can re-build it in his image.
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DIrishB
The Timeline Guy
Hawkeye101 said:
By that logic since her mother wasn't shown does that mean she doesn't have one? Just cuz she wasn't in the greenhouse with Jean's dad doesn't mean she didn't exist. And introducing her later on probably wouldn't even seem forced.
Hawkeye101
Well-Known Member
DIrishB said:
Still, I mean, the Ultimate Universe is a more 'realistic' approach on things done with super-heroes. Each of you hate the idea of time-travel, and each of you present ideas that would cause continutiy questions (not neccissarily continuity problems). If Cable and Nathan Sommers were two separate People, how come we haven't heard of Cable yet? If Cable is to remain the same, and be a one mother fuggin power house of psychic abilities, Xavier would have taken interest to him, or somebody would (like Fury). And if Rachel is to be the same, who would she recieve Phoenix abilities? As far as I knew, in 616 Jean's sister wasn't a mutant, and Rachel was Jean's daughter, with fire-bird abilities. What you have proposed is too much change. Yes I agree that the whole time-traveling is much, but there has to be some degree of familiarity. I've known Cable to be Nathan Sommers ever since I was five (?) and the son of Jean's clone and Scott. And I've known Rachel to be Jean and Scott's daughter for years. If you want to Ultimize them, making it simpler, but the same is the way to go.
Dr.Strangefate
He Sees You When You're Sleeping. He Knows When Yo
Hawkeye101 said:
I suppose every aspect of every character hitherto unknown must not exist either.... But DIrishB said all that needs saying there...
If they introduce a baby, I agree, keep it a baby. But in that case I hope you realize that means we won't be seeing the Rachel or Nate we know and love for another five to ten years (if the comic survives that long, which I hope to god it does, I'm just saying)
I do agree with no Techno Organic Virus. No Stryfe either... and No metal arm whatsoever. it's kind of pointless, especially since X-Man worked perfectly fine without one. And X-Man, in my oppinion, is essentially the younger more likable (not to mention, attractive) alternative to Cable.
Are you implying that sexuality has absolutely anything to do with wanting children? Because thats complete bull****. But since I don't feel like yelling at you right now, I'll stick to the topic... well that's not true... I just don't want to get out of hand and say something to get myself banned.
Cyclops had a ****ty childhood, he lived in an orphanage where he lived entirely in his head (remember the entire planet he created with his imagination?). He has a crap relationship with his little brother, he lives in an environment where he and his teammates are in danger constantly, and even -moreso- if Magneto escapes, or his brother (or another teammate) gets killed. Its -not- a good place for any parent to be raising a kid, especially Scott, who already has pretty bad emotional issues. And they live for free in a mansion that's owned by the US government, where they all work for the US government, and do you think that SHIELD wants to be responsible for the liability of a baby?
In their late teens/early twenties?! They haven't even discussed the possibility of Marraige! Not to mention the fact that they have a bad relationship because they don't communicate about anything (see the beginning of the latest issue). Just because they -should- be happy isn't a reason to overrule years of continuity.
And yes, you're right, there isn't any good reason that they should be siblings, thats what I said.
Quoth Nathaniel Essex, the only clue to what Apocalypse wants: "the child is coming". Not the Children, the CHILD. And for someone who probably needs a new body to return (if he's anything like his 616 counterpart), what use is two separate bodies?
And Cain Marko was Xavier's stepbrother, and Emma Frost was a member of the Hellfire Club, and the Shadow King crippled Xavier, and Proteus was the son of Moira and general MacTaggert, and Nick Fury was white, and Bucky became a Communist Cold War Assassin, and Iron Man wasn't a genetical anomoly, and Jarvis had a thing for Aunt May, and Gwen Stacy was killed by Green Goblin, and Harry Osborn was the Second Green Goblin, and Kravin didn't get genetically altered, and so on and so forth.....
And Rachel was the daughter of Scott and Jean that they had and raised in a dystopian future where they were in concentration camps and the sort, and Rachel was fashioned into a hound and servant of the Sentinels.
If Cable is to be as powerful as he is in 616, if he didn't want to be found, he wouldn't be. SHIELDS Psychic devision is crap, they've said so. And Cerebro has limits, it can't just track down anyone anywhere in the world. If he could, he'd know where Rogue went, wouldn't he?
And why does Rachel need to have the exact same Pheonix abilities as her mother? If the Pheonix Force is an entity in the Ultimate Universe, it would be centered in one person, not two.... Rachel just needs telepathy and pyrokinesis to be on the same page, and frankly I think she'd be a good character without all that, make her a powerful telekinetic, or something like that, where she'd be on par with her sister in a different way. Think of Cyke and Havok, they don't have the same abilities.
Now, if they introduce a Baby Rachel, kill off Jean, and have the Pheonix Force bury itself into the child, I'd be cool with that. Just no rapid aging, time travel, or nonsensical multiple possession.
We are going to have retconned history in comic books, its how you make new stories, so I wouldn't put too much hope into the argument that if we haven't seen it yet, it can't exist theory.
Well, unfortunately Cable has never been Nathan Sommers, but thats just me being an *******. The truth is that Cable himself didnt know he was Nathan Summers for a hell of a long time, he was Nathan Dayspring, the Askani-son, he lived a complete and full life in the future, and then came to the Present.
And if you want the same, go pick up the originals. I want a good story, I want surprises. Not necessarily giant changes, but tweaks that make the story more relevant to now.
Man, you must hate Carnage and Venom. And Ben Reily. And... well, I think you see where I'm going with this.
