Ultimate Comics: Ultimates by Jonathan Hickman (spoilers)

Captain Canuck

The poster formerly known as captaincanuck65
I still don't have #10 yet! My LCS got shorted and they still haven't got the issue in for me...

EDIT: heh, Wackos...
 
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Captain Canuck

The poster formerly known as captaincanuck65
I finally picked up #10 & 11 yesterday. I really love this book. I'm glad they finally told Sue.

I'm guessing Texas separating will lead into the "Divided We Fall" cross-over.
 

E

Moderator
Excelsior Club
I've decided that I'm just not feeling it with this book. They blew up Washington...that's too out there and not what I would expect or want from an Ultimate book.

The Ultimate line used to be grounded in reality a lot more than the mainstream MU books and that's what I liked about it. But it's like they decided to do the complete opposite of that starting with Ultimatum and completely removed that aspect of the line; they just decided to throw crap at the wall and see what stuck. I would've hoped that a good writer like Hickman could break out of that and get things back on track, but apparently not.
 

Captain Canuck

The poster formerly known as captaincanuck65
My suspension of disbelief just broke for this book.

Tony Stark has a sentient tumor that has techno-kenesis and he used it to defeat Reed.
 

Zeek

Well-Known Member
Yeah, that was a disappointing a**-pull of a resolution. Barely any buildup, more than a little unbelievable. Honestly, I blame "Divided We Stand".
 

Captain Canuck

The poster formerly known as captaincanuck65
Forget the lack of buildup (actually, his Anthony hallucination has appeared once or twice before) it was just a ridiculous concept. They finally retconned the brain in his whole body/nano-monkeys story out of existence, only to replace it with this? I just don't get it.
 

Ice

Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
Captain Canuck said:
Forget the lack of buildup (actually, his Anthony hallucination has appeared once or twice before) it was just a ridiculous concept. They finally retconned the brain in his whole body/nano-monkeys story out of existence, only to replace it with this? I just don't get it.

It's cool. Ben got to punch a dinosaur.
 

E

Moderator
Excelsior Club
Hmmm.

I didn't hate the ending. A tumor with a consciousness and special ability is kind of cool, actually.

I'm just not sure I like it for Tony Stark.

Tony Stark has a sentient tumor that has techno-kenesis and he used it to defeat Reed.

When you put it like that it's pretty bad, but that's oversimplifying it.

And even though I'm not wild about Tony Stark being used like this, if ANYONE is going to have a tumor that has techno-kenesis, it's Tony Stark.
 

DIrishB

The Timeline Guy
Captain Canuck said:
My suspension of disbelief just broke for this book.

Tony Stark has a sentient tumor that has techno-kenesis and he used it to defeat Reed.

Wait... what? Are you serious? I was about to get caught up on the Ultimate books from the past several months to update the timeline, but Jesus, now I'm not so sure...
 

E

Moderator
Excelsior Club
but sentinels are far fetched...

In the way they were used, yes.

And so is the conscious tumor stuff, but in the context of what has already been established it's not too bad.

In other words, Hickman and the other guy (can't remember his name, don't care to look it up) did the best they could with the hand they were dealt. Ideally, it would never have even been an option because the stupidity of a man with a brain that grows throughout his entire body would never have existed.
 

Captain Canuck

The poster formerly known as captaincanuck65
Wait... what? Are you serious? I was about to get caught up on the Ultimate books from the past several months to update the timeline, but Jesus, now I'm not so sure...

I'm serious. But it was a good story, very sci-fi but good.

In other words, Hickman and the other guy (can't remember his name, don't care to look it up) did the best they could with the hand they were dealt. Ideally, it would never have even been an option because the stupidity of a man with a brain that grows throughout his entire body would never have existed.

i was think about this... the Orson Scott Card stories are retconned out of existence now, so I was thinking that the whole Brain growing throughout his whole body concept was out, but the Ultimate Human story referenced it. I think that's the only time they've ever mentioned it outside of the Ultimate Iron Man minis so I'm sort of thinking they're ignoring it.

Either way, it really doesn't affect the tumour idea at all. I guess the point is that his tumour is putting pressure on his brain in such a way that he's hallucinating the Anthony persona. That part is all reasonable, I just don't understand the "techno-kenesis" thing. Somehow he can communicate with technology because of his tumour and he does so by projecting the hallucinated persona. When you put it like that it doesn't sound SO bad, but I just don't like the idea of Iron Man having powers. It's sort of on the same level as Hawkeye having good aim because he has robotic eye-implants, its just sort of silly and un-needed.
 

E

Moderator
Excelsior Club
Captain Canuck said:
I just don't like the idea of Iron Man having powers. It's sort of on the same level as Hawkeye having good aim because he has robotic eye-implants, its just sort of silly and un-needed.

I HATE the idea of Tony Stark having powers, but, again, they probably did the best they could with the mess they were handed. That said, I still thought the story as a whole was too over the too and too much of a departure from what the Ultimates was all about.

As for Hawkeye; it goes against all of the things I've said about the series grounded in reality, but I actually think I prefer Clint having enhancements instead of being just a really good archer. And I think the reason is because he's so good that it would be too ridiculous for him to NOT have enhancements. In a weird way, the fingernail scene in Ultimates 2, for example, makes more sense if he has those enhancements than if he doesn't.
 

Captain Canuck

The poster formerly known as captaincanuck65
I guess for me there is a base level of disbelief that I'm willing to suspend. I go into these comics understanding that Hawkeye has aim that is above and beyond what is possible, the robotic enhancements seem like an unnecessary extra layer of unbelievability that bends my suspension beyond it's capacity. Same with Iron Man being able to build a ridiculous suit of armor and having techno-kenesis.
 

DIrishB

The Timeline Guy
I finally got caught up on this... the whole Tony's techno-kenesis brain tumor thing was too much of a deus ex machina wrap up to what started as a grandiose, redefining arc for the Ultimate verse. Reed was set up as a perfect villain, a true threat due to his advanced intelligence and technology, and the brain tumor saving the day was just... meh. Its certainly an original idea, but that doesn't make it a good one.

Still, overall I enjoyed Hickman's run on the book, and appreciated him shaking up the Ultimate world even further (wiping out Asgard and the Asgardians, and yes, even nuking DC with antimatter). I honestly wonder if the brain tumor ending was his original idea since he originally stated he'd had the first five arcs planned out... maybe he just abbreviated his original ending to make way for the Divided We Fall crossover? Ah well, its a thousand times better and more readable than Loeb's version, so I really can't complain... much. ;)
 

cmdrjanjalani

Well-Known Member
To be fair, it's not really that bad. Crazy stuff about Stark's brain would help explain his extreme intelligence the same way with Reed. It's also just as absurd as Reed's Big Bang cannon to scare off Gah Lak Tus and that was written by Warren Ellis. I have a feeling they kind of wrote themselves in the corner in how ridiculously powerful they made Reed and the Children were. There's no way they can win in a conventional manner after all. My disappointment is the sudden dropping of the People during the arc. The comic with Xorn in the cover does not even feature him or the People! I can accept that the WACOs and the rest of the Ultimates' fates will be part of Divided We Fall, but it was weird how they just got away from the People. Another thing that disappointed me was how little Sue was in the story while Ben was totally absent from the storyline. It was a big missed opportunity finding out your best friend is responsible for murdering millions of people.

I agree with the Sentinels. UXM starts with giant robots killing mutants in the middle of New York with no one questioning the government with these questionable actions and the book was meant to be more realistic then the main X-Men comics.
 
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Bass

Nexus of the World
The Ultimate line used to be grounded in reality a lot more than the mainstream MU books and that's what I liked about it.
Tony Stark has a sentient tumor that has techno-kenesis and he used it to defeat Reed.

I just finished #12 and what utter shash. I'm very disappointed in Hickman who is a much better writer than this. It's one thing to say he set up he had a tumor, and another to suggest he can "talk" to his tumor, it's a whole other thing to suggest his tumor can talk to 1000-year old computers and take control of bits of a cityscape.

And there's no need for it: Hickman already set up that Reed hated Stark (essentially, Stark is to Reed what Reed is supposed to be to Doom) and would be easily baited by him, so why not have Stark taunt Reed into letting him read his crimes out to the City? And then, he reads out the crimes Reed's committed against the City, not the USA, resulting in the City joining his side. Why have all this tumor stuff?

Such a failure of creativity.
 

E

Moderator
Excelsior Club
I just finished #12 and what utter shash. I'm very disappointed in Hickman who is a much better writer than this.

I think the last issue was co-written, wasn't it? For the reason that you just said, this seemed like an editorial mandate.

I said it wasn't that bad...it IS that bad, but because the character of Ultimate Tony Stark has been completely destroyed by hacks writing garbage I guess it didn't strike me as outrageous as it would have been a few years ago.
 

PureMitch

Well-Known Member
I really feel like Tony could have convinced the City to pull a mutiny on Reed without his deus ex machina Anthony tumor. What a bizarre and disappointing ending to such a great story.
 

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