Ultimate Nick Fury - Good or Bad

[TheManWithoutFear]

This topic has come up in several threads involving many Ultimate discussions. I really like to stand by Nick Fury and say that there is no Ultimate Conspiracy involving him and he's the straight edged leader of America's #1 security force. Many others think that he's bound to slip deeper into the role of Ultimate Manipulator and is useing SHIELD for his own purposes that will later on cause some big problems.

So here's the simple question - Do you trust Nick Fury?

 

[callmeindy]

I trust him to do what needs doing. I don't think he tells the truth all the time ("Congradulations Banner! Here is some wine to celibrate!"), and I wouldn't trust what he told me to always be the truth, but I don't think he's part of any deep dark conspiracy to turn the country into a police-state or anything.

 

[Guijllons]

I.. well.. I don't know, but I'm reluctant to hit the don't know button.
I think his heart is in the right place, for what it is he does.
But, what he does is questionable. Or is it?

Hmmm.. well, I seem to be talking bollocks. let me start again.

Nick Fury is under orders, so that should personally remove him from the question of morality. Given his voting habits have been mentioned (he voted Nader, not the last election), that means he is rebellious against the general running, and his personal politics are not part of the machine he works for. Which, makes him no so inclined to take orders, therefore throwing back some of the responsibility back to him. (sorry for the runaround)

On the hulk issue, I do firmly believe, justified or nay, that he perfectly intended banner to survive. (+1 fury)

On the Thor issue, he does his job. He has doubts about Thor, and sees a truth. One based on facts, one that I would, given my beliefs on such matters.(+0 fury)

The big downpoint for me though was allowing Cap into the Middle East, best of intentions maybe, but one as Fury, so armed with the facts, saving a few lives for a popularity hike is no great thing. He gets 1 point down on that one.

All in all, Fury though.. hmmm.. I think good guy. Though grey as hell. but such is war.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

I trust him to do what needs doing. I don't think he tells the truth all the time ("Congradulations Banner! Here is some wine to celibrate!"), and I wouldn't trust what he told me to always be the truth, but I don't think he's part of any deep dark conspiracy to turn the country into a police-state or anything.

I like how you think indy

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

The big downpoint for me though was allowing Cap into the Middle East, best of intentions maybe, but one as Fury, so armed with the facts, saving a few lives for a popularity hike is no great thing. He gets ! point down on that one.

+ 5 for Fury from me on that one.

I mean the man was told not to have The Ultimates involved and he sends Captain in to save the lives of a few (just a handful) of human beings. Knowing that he could get in some **** for doing it too. That took cojones and shows that he puts the safety of America and it's citizens over his job. This is the one thing people should take into serious consideration when voting in this thread.

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

I would trust Fury with my life (if i were a SHIELD operative, or even a UU citizen of the USA)

That being said, I don't think he's following all the laws he's supposed to be... but as Director of SHIELD, he can do what he wants.

 

[Guijllons]

But it was said that they would not be entering the middle east, and then they do. It was a lie, and the middle east situation has many sides, and no absolute answer. Sending Captain America in to save a few hostages seems rather like using an elephant gun to kill a housefly. It was a popularity thing to satify the budget. It was nothing to do with right or wrong, or saving the helpless people. Where cap goes, the media are there when he gets back. As I've said before, cap is a stooge, he is used, and he was used in this case as a vote winner, and a justification for the budget. It's def 1 point down here.
It's use of assets for gain other than the use the assets are there for. however, as was clearly pointed out in the books (a few panels on) a polaris missile has never saved a kid from a burning building.
So, lives are saved all round. though at the cost of making a gateway to the middle east, and on to Iran. as was commented on. That is not a justifiable move. baby steps they are, but a step in the wrong direction.

 

[Ultimate Gambit]

I have my doubts of Fury but im not sure right now I will se what happens during GTA

 

[iceman]

hell no.

yeah, i believe he's a good guy. but he's a lying, conniving good guy. i trust he'll get the job done, but i'll never trust him.

 

[Ice]

I trust him. No matter what he does, it ain't never for nothing of evil or anything of the such. The guys knows what he's doing, otherwise he wouldn't have the position he has.

 

[ourchair]

I place Fury on the Neutral Good on the AD&D spectrum of morality. That's all I have to say about that.

 

[Vyns]

Well he's not a bad guy perse, but he's definately not a nice guy. And it doesn't help looking like Samuel L. Jackson for not being an intimidating figure.

 

[iceman]

I place Fury on the Neutral Good on the AD&D spectrum of morality. That's all I have to say about that.

I'd say more of a Chaotic Good. He's not against playing against the rules.

But this makes things fun:

Captain America: Lawful Good (basically a Paladin, with America as his God)
Iron Man: Neutral Good
Thor: Chaotic Good
Giant Man: Chaotic Good/Chaotic Neutral (not quite sure)
Wasp: Neutral Good
Black Widow: Lawful Neutral
Hawkeye: Lawful Good
Hulk: Chaotic Awesome

 

[E]

I'd almost bet - and I mean nothing by it - that a lot of the "I trust him" votes will be Americans, and the "I don't (completely) trust him" votes will be non-Americans. Just an observation/prediction.

 

[Ice]

I'd almost bet - and I mean nothing by it - that a lot of the "I trust him" votes will be Americans, and the "I don't (completely) trust him" votes will be non-Americans. Just an observation/prediction.

Well I'm not American, though my native land is American territory.

 

[E]

Well I'm not American, though my native land is American territory.

I did say "a lot"... :wink:

 

[Bass]

I voted for "unsure".

It's quite obvious that Grand Theft America is building up to a confrontation between the Ultimates and SHIELD (indeed, Ultron may only be the catalyst that sparks this confrontation) and while Fury will most likely be on the SHIELD side which is going for global dominace... I honestly think that he, himself, is not fully aware of the ramifications of the Ultimate agenda.

It all comes down to Nick Fury's expression on the final page of Ultimates 2 #2. Is he looking at Pym saying "Look who they're phasing out" because he's anxious as to just how much Pym knows about his operation to create a super soldier army and is pondering on wether Pym poses a threat, or, is Fury looking like that because Pym's words have troubled him that it's possible that his superiors have wanted this all along and he, and the Ultimates, are being used for a corrupt status quo?

I personally think its the former at the moment (because Thor would be a huge asset if the latter is the case, and attacking him wouldn't make sense, and a lot of Fury's actions make sense if you look at it from the former point of view - what seemed as idealism was a bid for dominance). But I'm not sure. Until the Grand Theft America story arc starts, I'm reserving my judgment, though I think #6 might actually give us more insight as I'm certain GTA will kick start in that seemingly-innocuous issue (most likely on the last page).

 

[Ice]

I did say "a lot"... :wink:

I was just trying to make a joke....

Now it's ruined... :cry:

 

[E]

I was just trying to make a joke....

Now it's ruined... :cry:

Haha! Another point for me! :twisted:

OK, back on topic.

 

[ourchair]

I'd say more of a Chaotic Good. He's not against playing against the rules.

I agree with you on Fury's ability to break the rules of the government or his own personal ones, he almost always tries to operate under the guise of legality. Meaning, sure he'll break the rules but he'll PRETEND he's not doing so.

A TRUE Chaotic Good character places Good ABOVE all. As the character creation text from Icewind Dale II puts it: "Chaotic good characters are strong INDIVIDUALISTS marked by a streak of benevolence or kindness. They believe in all the virtues of goodness and right, but have little use for laws an regulations. Their actions are guided by their own moral compass, which although good, may not be in perfect agreement with society."

Contrast that with a Neutral Good character. A Neutral Good character believes in the balance of the world, but that the "concerns of law and chaos do not moderate for what is good." This means that balance is important to the character, but it is up to the character to make sure that balance favors the good. The game text continues to read: "If fostering good means supporting organized society, then that is what must be done. If good can only come about by overthrowing the existing social order, so be it."

Fury has repeatedly shown in the past that by championing good wherever and whenever it seems appropriate within the balance of political affairs, that good and balance must work within harmony. A Chaotic Good character places "what I believe is right" above anything, even if it seems impractical or unsound to do so. (I believe Spider-Man is a classic example).

Hulk: Chaotic Awesome

LOL!