Ultimate Spider-Man #84 (SPOILERS)

DIrishB

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This issue starts just as the last ended, with a room full of heroes and villains. We're given a little cast roster on the first page, introducing all the players by name (most likely due to the sheer number of them). Black Cat tells Hammerhead she wants him to take out Kingpin, and basically throws in with him. Hammerhead recognizes Elektra as Kingpin's assassin, and offers her a job with him for better pay. She accepts, and soon the big fight breaks out. The fight itself takes up most of the issue, until Spidey ends up webbing everyone up. He then steals a cell phone from Montana and calls 911, asking to speak with DeWolffe. While on the phone Shang-Chi talks to Spidey, mentioned specifically the UMTU issues #15-16 (HA! I told you they shouldn't be ignored!). He tells her where he is, when Elektra breaks free from the webbing and throws her sai at him. Soon everyone else has broken free and is attacking Spidey. Elektra shanks Moon Knight through the chest with her sai. Hammerhead wriggles his arm free from the webbing, removes the injured Moon Knight's mask, and uses a picture-phone to take his photo, then tells him he own him. Elektra kicks the crap out of Spidey and tosses him out a window, where he lands on a police car. The end.

Ok, issue, though I enjoyed UFF #24 a bit more. This wasn't the best issue in the arc so far, and maybe even the worst in that there's no real plot or character development other than Elektra switching sides (which from the preview pages to USM #85 we find out is all a ruse anyway). I give this one a 3 out of 5 also.
 

TheManWithoutFear

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I thought it was great. All action. I loved the whose side is who on when Hammerhead was buying people off and whatnot. Bendis did mention the Team-Up with Shang-Chi and Spider-Man. I really have no complaints. Funny dialogue... all action. MoonKnight gets stabbed, Black Cat runs away, and Peter gets tossed out a window.

4/5 why not?
 
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DIrishB

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TheManWithoutFear said:
I thought it was great. All action. I loved the whose side is who on when Hammerhead was buying people off and whatnot. Bendis did mention the Team-Up with Shang-Chi and Spider-Man. I really have no complaints. Funny dialogue... all action. MoonKnight gets stabbed, Black Cat runs away, and Peter gets tossed out a window.

4/5 why not?

I didn't think the dialogue was anything great. Besides the Hammerhead job offers and Spidey's phone conversation, most of the dialogue were sentences cut off due to someone getting punched before they could finish it. I liked the issue, just wasn't great. I wanted a little more meat on the bone I guess.
 

E.Vi.L.

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Fun, action, banter, yay!

Just one complaint : Officially give Elektra super powers or tone her down. It's getting ridiculous to see a supposedly normal 130 pound woman punch through a big wooden beam.
 
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TheManWithoutFear

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E.Vi.L. said:
Fun, action, banter, yay!

Just one complaint : Officially give Elektra super powers or tone her down. It's getting ridiculous to see a supposedly normal woman punch through a big wooden beam.
Shush you! You're gonna have Hawkeye coming in here with his crazy *** theory on Elektra's powers! She seems fine too me. World's deadliest and best assassin
 

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I'd agree that Elektra needs to be toned down a bit. Not so much for punching that beam, but beating the crud out of Spidey. Geez, that's twice she's beaten him! What happened to enhanced reflexes and Spider-Sense? No matter how good a martial artist she is, she shouldn't have been able to land a blow if Spidey didn't want her to.
 

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Shockmuffin said:
What happened to enhanced reflexes and Spider-Sense? No matter how good a martial artist she is, she shouldn't have been able to land a blow if Spidey didn't want her to.
I think the eluding-the-Spider-Sense bit comes with the whole sneak-up-on-your-enemy ninja package.

Haven't read any of her Ultimate mini-series yet, so I don't know if she's Hand/Chaste-enhanced or has any mystical abilities, but I would guess she must be a super-human, in *some* way, for her to punk out Spidey with such ease.
 

TheManWithoutFear

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Shockmuffin said:
I'd agree that Elektra needs to be toned down a bit. Not so much for punching that beam, but beating the crud out of Spidey. Geez, that's twice she's beaten him! What happened to enhanced reflexes and Spider-Sense? No matter how good a martial artist she is, she shouldn't have been able to land a blow if Spidey didn't want her to.

Yeah, she should. She's on par with Daredevil.
 

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TheManWithoutFear said:
Shush you! You're gonna have Hawkeye coming in here with his crazy *** theory on Elektra's powers! She seems fine too me. World's deadliest and best assassin

See, we're missing a lot of background for that. As far as we know, she only spent a lot of time in her youth in a dojo in Brooklyn with an 80 year old sensei who apparently doesn't attract quality students the way most top sensei do.

It's just not enough to train a lot in a dojo. There is a reason for gender and weight division in combat sports. For her to move from that to breaking wooden beams and kicking Spider-Man's ***, we seriously need a third Elektra mini-serie updating her quite a bit with wonky ninja powers or something. You know, something 'super'. Or else bring her back to street level to fight the like of Bullseye. There is no shame in that, these are some of the best stories in super hero comics.

---

But then, usually superheros perform based on popularity, not logic.

Take Elektra and DD in 616 Marvel. Consider the enemies they face. Consider Spidey and the enemy he faces. Now pit spidey's enemies with DD and Elektra enemies in a straight fight. Fair to say that Spidey's enemies are much tougher, combat wise. Venom, Green Goblin, Rhino, Carnage... When does DD and Elektra fight melee opponent this powerful in their title?

Yet in any crossover were physical confrontation occurs between Spider-Man and a lower powered but popular characters, it is always a close fight because otherwise fan of one character would be pissed.

In one sequence of USM 84, Spider man land a direct kick on Elektra with both legs in the stomach. That should have been it. The guy can jump 50 feet in the air with those legs, he can lift a car, he hits hard enough to hurt giants like Green and Hob goblins. But nooooo... This is Elektra. She can take it. Even though Spiderman surely kicks harder than Bullseye. On the reverse, he has taken many hits from Doc Ock's tentacles without losing consciousness and they have a lot more strenght, weight and leverage than Elektra's pretty legs possibly can. Oh but of course, Elektra has the power of fandom behind her punches so that compensate. And why does he have so much trouble dodging her blows? She can't hit much faster than an Electro lightning attack, a hail of bullet or Venom.

Seriously, given what we know of Elektra, he should have handled her without much more trouble than he did Kraven that first time. But the odds of Spider-Man (or any other of the A-list supers) just backhanding a popular character and tell her to come back when she has super powers are slim to none.
 
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TheManWithoutFear

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Zp1d3r_W3I3_L337 said:
i hate not getting issue's until a week after they come out *sigh*

what happened with black cat?
She was the "betrayal" in the solicitations. No big thing she just wants Fisk dead and you saw it coming but Spider-Man was pissed and was like "We are sooo done" So that ends Peter/Black Cat. Then she runs away when Elektra starts kicking ***.
 

DIrishB

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E.Vi.L. said:
See, we're missing a lot of background for that. As far as we know, she only spent a lot of time in her youth in a dojo in Brooklyn with an 80 year old sensei who apparently doesn't attract quality students the way most top sensei do.

It's just not enough to train a lot in a dojo. There is a reason for gender and weight division in combat sports. For her to move from that to breaking wooden beams and kicking Spider-Man's ***, we seriously need a third Elektra mini-serie updating her quite a bit with wonky ninja powers or something. You know, something 'super'. Or else bring her back to street level to fight the like of Bullseye. There is no shame in that, these are some of the best stories in super hero comics.

---

But then, usually superheros perform based on popularity, not logic.

Take Elektra and DD in 616 Marvel. Consider the enemies they face. Consider Spidey and the enemy he faces. Now pit spidey's enemies with DD and Elektra enemies in a straight fight. Fair to say that Spidey's enemies are much tougher, combat wise. Venom, Green Goblin, Rhino, Carnage... When does DD and Elektra fight melee opponent this powerful in their title?

Yet in any crossover were physical confrontation occurs between Spider-Man and a lower powered but popular characters, it is always a close fight because otherwise fan of one character would be pissed.

In one sequence of USM 84, Spider man land a direct kick on Elektra with both legs in the stomach. That should have been it. The guy can jump 50 feet in the air with those legs, he can lift a car, he hits hard enough to hurt giants like Green and Hob goblins. But nooooo... This is Elektra. She can take it. Even though Spiderman surely kicks harder than Bullseye. On the reverse, he has taken many hits from Doc Ock's tentacles without losing consciousness and they have a lot more strenght, weight and leverage than Elektra's pretty legs possibly can. Oh but of course, Elektra has the power of fandom behind her punches so that compensate. And why does he have so much trouble dodging her blows? She can't hit much faster than an Electro lightning attack, a hail of bullet or Venom.

Seriously, given what we know of Elektra, he should have handled her without much more trouble than he did Kraven that first time. But the odds of Spider-Man (or any other of the A-list supers) just backhanding a popular character and tell her to come back when she has super powers are slim to none.

Evil hit the nail on the head with that one. Extremely well thought out and valid points. Keep it up!

TheManWithoutFear said:
She was the "betrayal" in the solicitations. No big thing she just wants Fisk dead and you saw it coming but Spider-Man was pissed and was like "We are sooo done" So that ends Peter/Black Cat. Then she runs away when Elektra starts kicking ***.

Yup, and the Pete/Black Cat romance ends just in time for the Pete/Shadowcat to start. After all, the USM Annual occurs between Warriors and Silver Sable.
 

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so after building up the whole black cat/spidey thing for 2 issues making it seem quite interesting. they just do a total switch for no apparent reason (that i can think of anyway...yet)
 

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Zp1d3r_W3I3_L337 said:
so after building up the whole black cat/spidey thing for 2 issues making it seem quite interesting. they just do a total switch for no apparent reason (that i can think of anyway...yet)
NO. It's more about Black Cat's motivations. It wasn't for no reason. She took the oppurtunity to get at Fisk and ran with it. She's not in "love" with Spider-Man anyway so it's not unbelievable.
 

E.Vi.L.

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Not a complete switch : Black cat still has feelings for Spider-Man

And not for no apparent reason : Black Cat's drive in life is to see Wilson Fisk die. In the context, it was logical for her to side with Hammerhead.
 

RUFUS!

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did black cat switch sides before elektra?

if she did then why? if you look at it from a fighting perspective, spider-man, who could take take them all (except elektra but she was primarily there for hammerhead i think) shang-chi & iron fist who she saw hold there on that time she was "observing" hammerhead, against hammerhead & the enforcers (forget about any nameless characters) who both have been took out by either spidey or shang-chi & iron fist. & with elektra against everybody (i think), i would have thought it would have made more sense to stick with the good guys. i haven't read the issue yet (i get it on monday) so if anyone has anything that completely negates this then sorry & could you let me know it please
 

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cat may want fisk to die, but she's not (that) stupid.
she should have known that siding with hammerhead wouldn't be the way to get at fisk.

honestly at any point in the story have you thought that hammerhead was an honest threat to the kingpin. he killed silvermaine, blew up a warehouse & muscled some luetenants, but has he directly hurt the kingpin really? he's never shown me he was a real threat
 

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