Ultimate Spider-Man #84 (SPOILERS)

[E.Vi.L.]

did black cat switch sides before elektra?

No, Elektra swtiched first.

Not to mention allowing for the events of the Annual to take place.

Ah, metaplot logic. The same kind of logic that explains why Spider-Man can't mop the floor with Elektra, actually. No matter how powerful or weak the antagonist, he/she must always appear a challenge to the hero in order to maintain tension. Unless you are The Shocker and are being played for laugh, of course.

honestly at any point in the story have you thought that hammerhead was an honest threat to the kingpin. he killed silvermaine, blew up a warehouse & muscled some luetenants, but has he directly hurt the kingpin really? he's never shown me he was a real threat

Kingpin is a businessman. What does the Kingpin have beside lieutenants (manpower) and Ware houses (merchandise)? He loses that, he no longer is the Kingpin. Just an obese jerks in a snazzy suit with powerful ex-friends who will start to avoid him like the plague while the DA look at him as the stepping stone to his political career.

Hammerhead is chipping away at the Kingpin criminal empire piece by piece. Which is how an Underworld figure usually fight another mob boss, actually. Duel in the street are for superheros. As such, he is a huge threat because Kingpin has his hand tied down at the moment and must maintain a low profile.

 

[RUFUS!]

then that kinda puts a dampner on my idea :wink:

even so though, the enforcers are known to be pathetic, & someone punches hammerhead in the stomach hard & he's screwed, so it SHOULD have just been elektra she had for support.

 

[DIrishB]

No, Elektra swtiched first.



Ah, metaplot logic. The same kind of logic that explains why Spider-Man can't mop the floor with Elektra, actually. No matter how powerful or weak the antagonist, he/she must always appear a challenge to the hero in order to maintain tension. Unless you are The Shocker and are being played for laugh, of course.



Kingpin is a businessman. What does the Kingpin have beside lieutenants (manpower) and Ware houses (merchandise)? He loses that, he no longer is the Kingpin. Just an obese jerks in a snazzy suit with powerful ex-friends who will start to avoid him like the plague while the DA look at him as the stepping stone to his political career.

Hammerhead is chipping away at the Kingpin criminal empire piece by piece. Which is how an Underworld figure usually fight another mob boss, actually. Duel in the street are for superheros. As such, he is a huge threat because Kingpin has his hand tied down at the moment and must maintain a low profile.

You really "get" comics it seems, and convey that knowledge even better. Evil, you are the man.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

You really "get" comics it seems, and convey that knowledge even better. Evil, you are the man.

I told you he was cool. Wow I sound like an idiot today.

 

[DIrishB]

I told you he was cool. Wow I sound like an idiot today.

Not when you agree with me. When you disagree, totally.

 

[Shockmuffin]

See, we're missing a lot of background for that. As far as we know, she only spent a lot of time in her youth in a dojo in Brooklyn with an 80 year old sensei who apparently doesn't attract quality students the way most top sensei do.

It's just not enough to train a lot in a dojo. There is a reason for gender and weight division in combat sports. For her to move from that to breaking wooden beams and kicking Spider-Man's ***, we seriously need a third Elektra mini-serie updating her quite a bit with wonky ninja powers or something. You know, something 'super'. Or else bring her back to street level to fight the like of Bullseye. There is no shame in that, these are some of the best stories in super hero comics.

---

But then, usually superheros perform based on popularity, not logic.

Take Elektra and DD in 616 Marvel. Consider the enemies they face. Consider Spidey and the enemy he faces. Now pit spidey's enemies with DD and Elektra enemies in a straight fight. Fair to say that Spidey's enemies are much tougher, combat wise. Venom, Green Goblin, Rhino, Carnage... When does DD and Elektra fight melee opponent this powerful in their title?

Yet in any crossover were physical confrontation occurs between Spider-Man and a lower powered but popular characters, it is always a close fight because otherwise fan of one character would be pissed.

In one sequence of USM 84, Spider man land a direct kick on Elektra with both legs in the stomach. That should have been it. The guy can jump 50 feet in the air with those legs, he can lift a car, he hits hard enough to hurt giants like Green and Hob goblins. But nooooo... This is Elektra. She can take it. Even though Spiderman surely kicks harder than Bullseye. On the reverse, he has taken many hits from Doc Ock's tentacles without losing consciousness and they have a lot more strenght, weight and leverage than Elektra's pretty legs possibly can. Oh but of course, Elektra has the power of fandom behind her punches so that compensate. And why does he have so much trouble dodging her blows? She can't hit much faster than an Electro lightning attack, a hail of bullet or Venom.

Seriously, given what we know of Elektra, he should have handled her without much more trouble than he did Kraven that first time. But the odds of Spider-Man (or any other of the A-list supers) just backhanding a popular character and tell her to come back when she has super powers are slim to none.

Thank you. You addressed my main complaint with the issue with solid reasons that I didn't have the time or presence of mind to convey. I completely agree.

 

[DIrishB]

Thank you. You addressed my main complaint with the issue with solid reasons that I didn't have the time or presence of mind to convey. I completely agree.

He's the best at what he does...he's the UC Comic Critique Wolverine, if you will.

 

[Goodwill]

Ironically, this was the first issue that couldn't hold my attention for more than three or four pages. Now, I don't feel that Shang-Chi and Iron Fist should have never shown up, there should have been more of a focus on Moon Knight and his relationship in all of this business and less of a build up for the big fight. Was it me or was it just a way to show how poor the colorist is on this title? The art was fanastic, but the art just dumbed down the action... I couldn't get into it. I really like Moon Knight and Elektra, but other characters, Spider-Man included, irked me too much for me to be entertained. Sorry, guys.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

MoonKnight is not a cool character.

 

[DIrishB]

Ironically, this was the first issue that couldn't hold my attention for more than three or four pages. Now, I don't feel that Shang-Chi and Iron Fist should have never shown up, there should have been more of a focus on Moon Knight and his relationship in all of this business and less of a build up for the big fight.

I agree there.

Was it me or was it just a way to show how poor the colorist is on this title?

Go read the letters page of that issue, someone makes the same statement (basically). Poor JD.

The art was fanastic, but the art just dumbed down the action... I couldn't get into it.

Wait, the art was fantastic but dumbed down the action? I'm not seeing how that statement makes any sense. :?

I really like Moon Knight and Elektra, but other characters, Spider-Man included, irked me too much for me to be entertained. Sorry, guys.

You mean you really liked Moon Knight.

I guess he could've survive it. It would be a total waste of the character if he didn't, too much of a throw-away character.

MoonKnight is not a cool character.

You only say that cuz he can make DD his *****. His Moon-*****! Which, coincidentally, is what Moony calls his girlfriend.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

You only say that cuz he can make DD his *****. His Moon-*****! Which, coincidentally, is what Moony calls his girlfriend.

2. Who'd win in a fight Ultimate Moon Knight or Ultimate Daredevil? Any chance of seeing that happening?

YES. SOON.

We shall see my friend... we shall see. :twisted:

 

[DIrishB]

We shall see my friend... we shall see. :twisted:

Huh, guess he does survive. I'm looking forward to that. But Elektra will probably show up and kick both their asses.

 

[Goodwill]

Forgive me for my confusing statement... I meant to say that the art was good, but the COLORING dumbed down the action. I think a kindergarten student could do a better job with crayons than what JD does. I really don't like him on this title!

I do believe Bendis said that we haven't seen the last of Moon Knight. There was a fight between him and Daredevil mentioned on the most recent QaA Bendis released on his site, and, not to mention, Bendis said his origin was saved for another arc. Hmmm... After Hammerhead got a photo of him with his Roxxon cellphone, I can't help but feel this is an indication that this guy may even be popping up within the next arc, too. We'll see, there's hope for him.

 

[nigma]

i havnt read all the comments, but i liked the issue, and shang chi pleading to write justice was wonderful, i guess waiting on the street cornerns for Mark helped him draw fighting better. :lol:

and the cell phone made by Roxxon nice touch,

 

[DIrishB]

Forgive me for my confusing statement... I meant to say that the art was good, but the COLORING dumbed down the action. I think a kindergarten student could do a better job with crayons than what JD does. I really don't like him on this title!

Oh ok, was wondering. I sort of agree, but I don't think its terrible either. Its middle of the road for me I guess, doesn't bother me much either way. Which is a shame, because there are plenty of other titles that the coloring is great on. Like Sin City and The Walking Dead.

I do believe Bendis said that we haven't seen the last of Moon Knight. There was a fight between him and Daredevil mentioned on the most recent QaA Bendis released on his site, and, not to mention, Bendis said his origin was saved for another arc. Hmmm... After Hammerhead got a photo of him with his Roxxon cellphone, I can't help but feel this is an indication that this guy may even be popping up within the next arc, too. We'll see, there's hope for him.

Definitly. I didn't really think he'd be killed off given how we've only gotten a peek into his character, which left a lot of stuff untouched or unresolved, so for him to be killed off now truly would make both the character and idea "throw-away". I just want to figure out whats up with the multiple personalities thing.

 

[Goodwill]

Well, remember, Gambit was killed off when we were only given a glimpse of his capabilities as a character and a mutant. Moon Knight's death may be a seriously reality come next issue.

Also, if Moon Knight were to be affiliated with the Roxxon Corporation (Which I'm sold he is) the fact that Hammerhead's comment, "I own you" would make more sense to me. Hammerhead has a hand in the science stuff if he's doing business with Sinister, formerly an Oscorp employee, and has a Roxxon cell. This'll definitely be an interesting arc coming up afterwards... I'm just afraid Silver Sable will take too much of it up.

 

[Shihad]

I remeber someone saying that moon knight would kinda become a regular??????
I know there a series coming for 616, but i thought i heard Moonknight would be becoming a regular in USpidey?

 

[E.Vi.L.]

Moon Knight's death may be a seriously reality come next issue.

(...)

...Hammerhead's comment, "I own you" would make more sense to me.

As you point out, Hammerhead removed MoonKnight's mask, took a picture and said "I own you". This whole scene becomes completely pointless if MoonKnight die in next issue. Therefore he won't. You can bet he will live long enough for this threat to come into play. Until then consider him bulletproof.

---

To everyone who agreed with my previous posts, well, thanks. But, hum, couldn't anyone disagree just for the sake of it? It's funnier to argue, debate and throw fit about this stuff. :wink:

 

[UltimateScarletWitch]

As you point out, Hammerhead removed MoonKnight's mask, took a picture and said "I own you". This whole scene becomes completely pointless if MoonKnight die in next issue. Therefore he won't. You can bet he will live long enough for this threat to come into play. Until then consider him bulletproof.

---

To everyone who agreed with my previous posts, well, thanks. But, hum, couldn't anyone disagree just for the sake of it? It's funnier to argue, debate and throw fit about this stuff. :wink:

Well, frankly, Evil, I don't agree with you. Elektra doesn't need uber nija powers because she already has a super ability.

See, when Spider-Man was born, the doctor said: Look! It has a penis! And when Elektra was born the doctor said: Look! It has a Vagina! Thus, Spidey already was two or three steps behind (unless, ofcourse, we find out that Ultimate Spidey is gay) Elektra. And those spider powers may have put him on par with her. Except, Elektra took those fighting classes.

To make my case, Evil (assuming you are a guy), If I asked you to me as hard as you could, even if I payed you, you would never hit me at your full strength. Ever. Why? Because somewhere deep within the nut shell boys call a brain you think it'll be possible to squeeze me (or any girl for that matter) out of my pants and get down and dirty in the horizontal tango. And as we can see (from more than just this issue) that Spider-Man has a lust crush on Elektra. So, without even realising it, When Spidey used his legs and thrusted Elektra over him, he wasn't actually using all of his strength. It is a natural ability almost any woman has over men.

Oh, and one more thing, Elektra's boobs would have so flown out of that outfit more than once during the fight.

 

[Shihad]

I don't have this issue yet, have to wait til tomorrow, but Elektra's Costume in 83 is different from the cover of 84, i know it doesn't matter, but i just thought i would say it.
And see what you guys thought was better, and maybe why the change?