Ultimate Spider-Man #97 discussion (spoilers)

Goodwill said:
I think thoughtless ultimizations are what is burying the UU... At least in my opinion. We're being introduced to a time-travelling Cable, Deadpool wasn't funny in the least bit, and most of the characters that were ultimized in the beginning aren't much different from their 616 counterparts. Noticing this trend, and the amount of compelling characters left in Spider-Man's rogue gallery, do think it's wise to just toss Scorion to the side as Peter's clone so that we can just reintroduce another 616 character? I WANT THOUGHTFUL CHANGE, dammit. WITHOUT COMPROMISING CHARACTERS, EITHER.
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Time-travelling Cable who isn't related to the Summers drops the useless part of the character but still keeps an important part of his origin. I'd say that stays true enough to the 616 character, but brings in some thoughtful change.

I'm sure Scorpion will have a little more screentime in the comic issues- we didn't see anything past Peter ripping off his mask.
 
We're certain he's not related to Scott? At all?

Anyway... There are other ways to come to the same conclusion... Dazzler and Mr. Sinister, for example. These characters were changed a lot, from what I know of thei 616 characters, and they aren't bad characters at all. They could last throughout however many issues a writer wants them to before writing them out or killing them. Scorpion is set as a Peter Clone without having to reinvent him when Bendis could've just gotten it right the first time.
 
Goodwill said:
We're certain he's not related to Scott? At all?

Anyway... There are other ways to come to the same conclusion... Dazzler and Mr. Sinister, for example. These characters were changed a lot, from what I know of thei 616 characters, and they aren't bad characters at all. They could last throughout however many issues a writer wants them to before writing them out or killing them. Scorpion is set as a Peter Clone without having to reinvent him when Bendis could've just gotten it right the first time.
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Robert Kirkman himself said so, in the thread about the cover of Ultimate Power.

Dazzler and Mr. Sinister weren't very interesting characters in 616, so completely changing them for the Ultimates line wasn't that big of a deal to most fans; The Scorpion is a well known villian, and just making him another random guy in a suit would have made him just like Ultimate Vulture.
Scorpion could have never held his own arc like Kingpin or Green Goblin, he is more along the line of Rhino or Vulture, who were both used as quick set-up fights. And just because there is a Peter clone in the suit doesn't mean there is no chance of another character being placed in the suit in future arcs.

And isn't using Scorpion as a Peter-clone better than using him as a nobody?
 
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I think, had he been given an interesting backstory, and tie to Peter Parker (Perhaps not personally), he would've been able to stand on his own. I would imagine Bendis had plans for this, too, but they were put off since they wanted to reinvent the character in the 616 universe... To a female character, I believe.
 
Goodwill said:
I think, had he been given an interesting backstory, and tie to Peter Parker (Perhaps not personally), he would've been able to stand on his own. I would imagine Bendis had plans for this, too, but they were put off since they wanted to reinvent the character in the 616 universe... To a female character, I believe.
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Well, we still don't know any of Ultimate Scorpion's backstory; we just know he's Peter Parker's clone. We don't know where he came from or why.
 
Sacred&Profane said:
Robert Kirkman himself said so, in the thread about the cover of Ultimate Power.

Dazzler and Mr. Sinister weren't very interesting characters in 616, so completely changing them for the Ultimates line wasn't that big of a deal to most fans; The Scorpion is a well known villian, and just making him another random guy in a suit would have made him just like Ultimate Vulture.
Scorpion could have never held his own arc like Kingpin or Green Goblin, he is more along the line of Rhino or Vulture, who were both used as quick set-up fights. And just because there is a Peter clone in the suit doesn't mean there is no chance of another character being placed in the suit in future arcs.

And isn't using Scorpion as a Peter-clone better than using him as a nobody?
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I disagree with The Sinisters Statement he is a pretty big Bad guy in 616 i mean he created Jean clone and stuff.
 
Venom Melendez said:
I disagree with The Sinisters Statement he is a pretty big Bad guy in 616 i mean he created Jean clone and stuff.
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What I meant was, he wasn't that interesting and did not have a huge fanbase.
 
E said:
So?

And if it's such a problem for him, he shouldn't wear a mask.
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Just curious, are there some good examples of Spidey comic books where they don't try to make his mask squint but still portray emotions effectively?
 
E said:
So?

And if it's such a problem for him, he shouldn't wear a mask.
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I'd like to know how this becomes a "problem for him". Problem for him to show emotion? He can't show emotion with his mask. And it's not like he tries to. It's something for the readers.

cmdrjanjalani said:
Just curious, are there some good examples of Spidey comic books where they don't try to make his mask squint but still portray emotions effectively?
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Yeah, right here:

spidermancomic.jpg

"OH MY GOD!!! AUNT MAY!! NOOO! HOW COULD YOU HAVE DONE THAT? HOW COULD YOU HAVE STABBED AN INNOCENT WOMAN?! YOU'RE GOING TO PAY OSBORN!!"

spidermancomic.jpg

"Whoa! How did my Spider-sense not pick up that incoming missle?!"

spidermancomic.jpg

"IMPOSSIBLE! You shouldn't have dodged that! How could you have moved so fast like that?!"



:roll:
 
cmdrjanjalani said:
Just curious, are there some good examples of Spidey comic books where they don't try to make his mask squint but still portray emotions effectively?
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No. It's a mask. Unless the mask is transparent, you aren't supposed to see what's going on under it. And if it's transparent there isn't any point in wearing it anyway.

Ice said:
I'd like to know how this becomes a "problem for him". Problem for him to show emotion? He can't show emotion with his mask. And it's not like he tries to. It's something for the readers.
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Thank you for proving my point.

If the reader really needs a fabric mask to change shape in order to tell when Spider-Man is surprised, then either the writer is doing a really crappy job setting up a scene, or said reader isn't paying close enough attention.
 
For one Kitty was a freak in this whole issue. Jeez, she really showed this time. That's what I thought everyone was going to be talking about. Not this Scorpion/Peter clone crap. For GOD's sake people, it is called the clone saga. I liked it. 4/5 I want to see what happens with spider girl.
 
Synch said:
For one Kitty was a freak in this whole issue. Jeez, she really showed this time. That's what I thought everyone was going to be talking about. Not this Scorpion/Peter clone crap. For GOD's sake people, it is called the clone saga. I liked it. 4/5 I want to see what happens with spider girl.
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Its more to do with the fact that Scorpion isnt Mac Gargan.But i agree with ya...though Kitty isnt that Emo in UXM.
 
The issue was leagues above what happened in Deadpool.

I'm not sure about Scorpion....and it looks like the begining of the end of Kitty and Peter. I liked them together.

It was a good issue none the less.
 
Kitty is a well-written character in my opinion and this issue shows it. She overreacts and creates drama... As opposed to MJ who is driven by winning back Peter's approval. That kind of parallel is cool. While Kitty isn't really written like this in UXM, I think it suits her well enough.
 
Goodwill said:
Kitty is a well-written character in my opinion and this issue shows it. She overreacts and creates drama... As opposed to MJ who is driven by winning back Peter's approval. That kind of parallel is cool. While Kitty isn't really written like this in UXM, I think it suits her well enough.
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You would like her emo-ey moodiness. :p
 
I read this issue, ok kitty was a little bit over the top..... but she wasn't wrong to feel suspect about peter and mj.

And scorpian was cool, i don't care that he was a clone, i think i'm actually looking forward to next issue, unlike people who are all like "this is crap" "i'm dropping this title"
I'm going to give it a chance.

As for the guy who kidnapped MJ, i dont think it kitty, cause in the panel where it was a dark shadow kind of thing, it looked really bulky, it reminded me of Kaine for some reason
 
Just a thought...
616 Ben Reilly at one point became Spider-Carnage didn't he? What if he recreated the Carnage organism and became part of it to become Ultimate Spider-Carnage?
 
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