Ultimate Spiderman #104 discussion (Spoilers)

I know...I was continuing on and stuff...

Post whore. :p



But yeah....I reread the Clone Saga last night---just to make sure I wasn't being too harsh on the book.

I stand justified. The beginning of the arc really started to build some heavy momentum. It looked as if the book was back on track and that Bendis/Bags were saving the good stuff for the big 100 moment.

But just like I said in this thread.....stuff quickly got out of hand and just spun outta control from there.
 
Wow. That was... not good.
Issue 104 was, in and of itself, a decent issue. However, it could have been (easily) half as long as it was; there was absolutely no need for all of the talking. We all know that the only reason this final issue existed was to have the fight between Spidey and Doc Ock; so, why did that take a backseat to all of the Bendisian talking? And, while we're on the subject, why, oh why, does Bendis have to end each of his arcs lazily? It's happened in EVERY SINGLE ONE of the arcs with Doc Ock- the final battle is a big letdown. This was supposed to be (according to the solits) the greatest battle of his life- and it lasted all of eleven pages. That's so little, Bendis could have kept it that length, and shortened the issue down to the normal 22 pages, with the remaining eleven pages talking. Such a letdown.
Actually, I think Bendis even realizes that it's a horrible battle, which, by the way, is mostly composed of swirling colors that make absolutely no sense. He makes Spider-Woman say, "It's lame that it took two of us," which is basically Bendis's way of saying, "Yeah, I know it was short and lame fight, but hey, it took TWO of them to beat him!"
Anyway, other than that- decent issue. But as a whole, Clone Saga has been horrible. You'd think Bendis would have thought things through a little better. You'd almost think he didn't know Peter's dad was a clone in 100, after all the useless waste of paper that was his dad's fake memories. Seriously, more than half of the "landmark" 100th issue was retconned almost instantly. This, to me, is really lazy and inconsistant writing. And don't even get me started on Doctor Octopus being Magneto's clone. Really, now, if he could just control the metal, would he have had a psychic connection to the arms? Would he have reacted at all when his previous arms were destroyed if he just "liked being called Doctor Octopus"? Bendis obviously made this little twist up just now- I'm willing to bet that if you had asked Bendis in volume three, if Doc Ock could control metal or if he had a psychic link with his tentacles, and Bendis had to tell the truth, he would have said, "Oh, he definitely has a psychic link to his tentacles. And controlling metal- are you crazy? That's just dumb."
In sum, then, Clone Saga had some good points- but they are so far outweighed by the bad, it's not even funny. The worst thing of all, though, is that this arc could have been so much better.
 
To all the naysayers, I just want to point out that this short concise storyline was WAY better than the elongated original clone storyline with all it's backtracking and rewriting of what was going on. It is a wonderful to read a spiderman clone saga that does not fail as utterly horribly as the original. So praise Bendis for simply making it simple. Spiderman is not a clone of himself and he hasn't been a clone for 15 years. Carnage & Venom are not aliens. MJ may or may not get to be a superpowered character. No dangling plot lines. No complete unimaginable BS. This is AWESOME!
 
So praise Bendis for simply making it simple. Spiderman is not a clone of himself and he hasn't been a clone for 15 years. Carnage & Venom are not aliens. MJ may or may not get to be a superpowered character. No dangling plot lines. No complete unimaginable BS. This is AWESOME!

You Lose (I bolded your contradictory statements).

The original Clone Saga actually dealt with Peter Parker's personal journey through the traumatic revelation that he was a clone, introduced many great new characters and ended up bringing back the best Spider-Man villain of all time, Norman Osborn, The First and Best Green Goblin.

The convuluted BS got washed away in the few short years after the saga ended, but other plots were left dangling to be picked up at a later date... (Such as the fate of Kaine, which I don't think was ever dealt with)... It was clearly sales driven rather than creatively driven, but the commotion over the Clone Saga was one of the things (along with Maximum Carnage) that got me to pick up the series.

The only thing Bendis' Clone Saga does is scare readers away by destroying Doc Ock, throwing characters from all four corners of the Marvel Universe, and by trying to handle it all in seven issues, he hammered out any possibility for character development for Peter or Jessica.

616 Clone Saga > UU Clone Saga
 
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To all the naysayers, I just want to point out that this short concise storyline was WAY better than the elongated original clone storyline with all it's backtracking and rewriting of what was going on. It is a wonderful to read a spiderman clone saga that does not fail as utterly horribly as the original. So praise Bendis for simply making it simple. Spiderman is not a clone of himself and he hasn't been a clone for 15 years. Carnage & Venom are not aliens. MJ may or may not get to be a superpowered character. No dangling plot lines. No complete unimaginable BS. This is AWESOME!

You sad little man. Comparing the two is like comparing a 15 pound pile of **** to a 5 pound pile of ****. Either way it's still ****.

And no unimaginable BS?

Are you even reading the same story?
 
I was going to say something, but I already made my comment about this guy in the UXM 78 thread and I didn't want it to look like I was picking on him.
 
To all the naysayers, I just want to point out that this short concise storyline was WAY better than the elongated original clone storyline with all it's backtracking and rewriting of what was going on. It is a wonderful to read a spiderman clone saga that does not fail as utterly horribly as the original. So praise Bendis for simply making it simple. Spiderman is not a clone of himself and he hasn't been a clone for 15 years. Carnage & Venom are not aliens. MJ may or may not get to be a superpowered character. No dangling plot lines. No complete unimaginable BS. This is AWESOME!

I agree. It's like comparing green poo to brown poo.



EDIT: damnit, tog beat me. Should have read further down.
 
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You Lose (I bolded your contradictory statements).

The original Clone Saga actually dealt with Peter Parker's personal journey through the traumatic revelation that he was a clone, introduced many great new characters and ended up bringing back the best Spider-Man villain of all time, Norman Osborn, The First and Best Green Goblin.

The convuluted BS got washed away in the few short years after the saga ended, but other plots were left dangling to be picked up at a later date... (Such as the fate of Kaine, which I don't think was ever dealt with)... It was clearly sales driven rather than creatively driven, but the commotion over the Clone Saga was one of the things (along with Maximum Carnage) that got me to pick up the series.

The only thing Bendis' Clone Saga does is scare readers away by destroying Doc Ock, throwing characters from all four corners of the Marvel Universe, and by trying to handle it all in seven issues, he hammered out any possibility for character development for Peter or Jessica.

616 Clone Saga > UU Clone Saga

I agree DSF; the orig clone saga gets slammed often enough and most times I beleive it's by people who havn't read most of it. I alwasy reccomened the first couple months of the Clone saga [just about everything leading to ASM # 400 is excellent and well-thought out stuff]. It's a shame that the writers were seeminly forced by sales to continue the Saga when it was supposed to end around # 400 anyway. Plus people liked Ben, I know I did. He was a comment on how depressed and angry the regular Peter was getting and the contrast was incredibly clear. But with USM we just get a 2nd whiner, something Ult. Spidey is getting really good at it.
 
GUYS!!!

There is something even worse than the Clone Saga incoming to our lives if the rumors are true!

Steve Rogers is Iron Man!!!

OMG, even the origins of Green Lantern's powers make more sense than the whole Marvel Universe!
 
GUYS!!!

There is something even worse than the Clone Saga incoming to our lives if the rumors are true!

Steve Rogers is Iron Man!!!

OMG, even the origins of Green Lantern's powers make more sense than the whole Marvel Universe!

This is just too easy. Someone? Anyone?





Fine....I'll do it.



sitdown2lz.jpg
 
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To all the naysayers, I just want to point out that this short concise storyline was WAY better than the elongated original clone storyline with all it's backtracking and rewriting of what was going on. It is a wonderful to read a spiderman clone saga that does not fail as utterly horribly as the original. So praise Bendis for simply making it simple. Spiderman is not a clone of himself and he hasn't been a clone for 15 years. Carnage & Venom are not aliens. MJ may or may not get to be a superpowered character. No dangling plot lines. No complete unimaginable BS. This is AWESOME!

first off the storyline was not short by ultimate standars, in fact it was quite long, and it was elongated just like the orginal, this arc was originally listed as a seven issue arc, then it was demoted to a five issue arc, and now it stands as a 8 issue arc with an epilogue essentially making at a 9 issue arc, which stands as the longest USM arc ever made excluding "ultimate six" which was a mini outside the main title.

and even the first bunch of issue's about the original clone saga were better than this tripe, before the EiC noticed he could make some easy money. mind you the first three issues of this arc were actually pretty good aswell

and your "no dangling plotlines" is a joke dangling plotlines are GOOD for a story it leaves the writer and future writers material to expand on, to evolve a character, besides these plotlines weren't even resolved they were just cut short. Bendis is running out of idea's because he isn't leaving plotlines hanging so they can be picked up later, he is just moving to the next "Ultimization of the month" so he can create yet another throwaway character
 
GUYS!!!

There is something even worse than the Clone Saga incoming to our lives if the rumors are true!

Steve Rogers is Iron Man!!!

We still need to see about the Steve Rogers thing. I don't believe it.
I'll forget that you said something about Green Lantern for the sake of this discussion.
 
GUYS!!!

There is something even worse than the Clone Saga incoming to our lives if the rumors are true!

Steve Rogers is Iron Man!!!

OMG, even the origins of Green Lantern's powers make more sense than the whole Marvel Universe!

I heard the same damn thing, and seriously. It's so damn stupid, that there's no way in Hell Millar and Marvel would think this was a good idea. It's bull****.
 
I heard the same damn thing, and seriously. It's so damn stupid, that there's no way in Hell Millar and Marvel would think this was a good idea. It's bull****.

Meh. Marvel seems to be going for "shock factor" over good story telling. "Good ideas" don't matter much anymore.

If a couple of years ago, you told me that Marvel was going to unmask Spider-Man on live television...I would have kicked you in the nads and called you a liar.
 
Meh. Marvel seems to be going for "shock factor" over good story telling. "Good ideas" don't matter much anymore.

If a couple of years ago, you told me that Marvel was going to unmask Spider-Man on live television...I would have kicked you in the nads and called you a liar.

To be fair, there's a 50/50 chance you'll do so upon first meeting anyway.
 
i liked the clone saga. it was a little long but i cant really complain as bendis said what he did. He knew he would come under controversy for redoing the saga but he didnt care. he kept it twisting and turning right up till the end. i give the saga as a whole a 9 but the single issues were hard. reread the whole thing u wont be disappointed
 
i liked the clone saga. it was a little long but i cant really complain as bendis said what he did.

How noble of him.

He knew he would come under controversy for redoing the saga but he didnt care. he kept it twisting and turning right up till the end.

So he gets a good grade for bucking tradition (which he didn't even do)? So what?

reread the whole thing u wont be disappointed

I promise the opposite.

This was worse than Ultimate Iron Man.
 

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