Ultimate Wolverine Vs Hulk #1 (Discussion/Spoilers)

[Boondock Jew]

Alright, I can't believe this isn't up yet, so I'm gonna put this here so we have a place to talk about it because... damn...

Let me edit my stuff in...

Holy crap.

Ok, so I'm not too sure what we were all expecting, I had only seen two pieces of art from it, but this was awesome. That opening page was killer, brilliant way to start it off, and that big splash page... . The inclusion of the words "Oh Right," made me laugh outloud because we've all seen that little piece of work already and I love how they worked it in. And Hulk throwing Wolvies legs four miles up a mountain? Priceless.

I can't really find much to complain about this issue. I mean, I know we're all looking forward to the fight and there was mainly just a lot of talking in this issue, but Lindelof I think really captured Logan's character. The art was nice and dark, fitting the tone.. though, there was that one pannel where Fury looked a little bo-legged, but whatever.

Seems to me Banner's got a little bit more control over the Hulk now. I mean, sitting in a room full of hotties letting them crawl all over them without eating any of them gives me the impression he's not mindless with it anymore.

I dunno, but something tells me this series is gonna rock.

 

[iceman]

Re: Ultimate Wolverine Vs Hulk mini (Discussion/Spoilers) Thread

last page: "hulk straight."

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

Re: Ultimate Wolverine Vs Hulk mini (Discussion/Spoilers) Thread

Reason it wasn't up was because I was late. Every issue will get it's own thread because this is an Ultimate Title, correct?

Anyway, what have we got

Ultimate Wolverine Vs. Hulk #1

Wolverine wakes up from being ripped in half and we flashback.

Wolverine is in Fury's secret office in Harlem. Fury wants him to do something for him but first Logan wants to know whose behind the wall. Betty Ross and Jen Walters (616 She-Hulk) reveal themselves.

They all agree Hulk needs to die. Betty looks distraut, Jen Walters flirts with Logan, Fury looks shady.

Fury briefs Logan with all of these catastrophies that have been happening around the globe with no explanation. They know Bruce is still alive and ask Logan to kill him.

Logan heads to Tibet where he finds Hulk surrounded by hundreds of Women. They face off... The end.

Some observations:

No mention that Dr. Jen Walters is Bruce's cousin? Only that she's the "other" big brain behind SHIELD'S supersoldier research and development.

Fury is not responsible for saving Bruce's life. At least that's how it reads here. My speculation? Fury sent Wolverine so that Hulk will kill him.

Still don't like how Hulk is being portrayed like Mr. Fix it.

Definitely the mini to watch. Art was great and the storytelling was good as one can expect from Lost's own Damon Lindelof. Can't wait to see what happens next. Still questioning the timeline for this and only problem was it really felt like they rushed a lot to get Hulk and Wolverine into a panel together but I'm still giving this a great read.

4.5/5

 

[DIrishB]

Re: Ultimate Wolverine Vs Hulk mini (Discussion/Spoilers) Thread

Awesome issue...seriously, maybe I'm getting ahead of myself, but I enjoyed this issue more than any Ultimates 2 issue so far.

Just so much great characterization on Wolverine, and very cool to see Jennifer Walters introduced (she is working, or at least has access to the Hulk serum, so who knows...could Ultimate She-Hulk be totally out of the question somewhere down the road?). Also liked how Betty was still in a way pining after Bruce. Lot of good stuff. Also loved the remark by Fury about Clinton having an office in the same building and him offering to introduce Wolverine...I found that amusing for some reason.

Timeline wise, after reading this issue, I'm convinced this issue (and most likely the rest of the mini) takes place not long after the Ultimates Annual and before the second arc in Ultimates 2. See the timeline thread for my exact placement. My reasons for this are three things: Nick Fury's arm was still attached, and didn't appear to be prosthetic or cybernetic in any way (but thats the least of the evidence). Also, Wolverine mentions they're not at the Triskelion, which seems to indicate its still in existence (not having been destroyed yet in Ultimates 2 #9). It also explicitly states Fury hasn't known Hulk was still alive for very long, and that they found his "poop" in Tibet (where in the Ultimates Annual it was shown Hulk attacked those guys) the day before. So to me at least its obvious this follows on the heels of the Ultimates Annual very closely, with the scenes of Wolverine tracking Hulk in Tibet probably only a few days after his meeting with Fury.

Anyway, this was a great issue, and I'm desperately awaiting the rest of this mini. Lindelof does a great job with TV drama, but I think he's an even better comic writer. Maybe thats a premature judgement after only one issue, but this was everything Ultimate Iron Man wasn't.

5/5

 

[ProjectX2]

Re: Ultimate Wolverine Vs Hulk mini (Discussion/Spoilers) Thread

Sounds cool. On Millarworld, the mods were teasing people like, "Did you see the guest appearance of CENSORED?" I presume this was Jen Walters?

 

[DIrishB]

Re: Ultimate Wolverine Vs Hulk mini (Discussion/Spoilers) Thread

Sounds cool. On Millarworld, the mods were teasing people like, "Did you see the guest appearance of CENSORED?" I presume this was Jen Walters?

I would assume so.

 

[Ice]

Re: Ultimate Wolverine Vs Hulk mini (Discussion/Spoilers) Thread

Every issue will get it's own thread because this is an Ultimate Title, correct?

Correct.

 

[MaxwellSmart]

Re: Ultimate Wolverine Vs Hulk mini (Discussion/Spoilers) Thread

I was hoping we would see a really interesting reason why wolverine was willing to kill Banner. I sure by the mini we will understand why he initially did it and how bad he feel about agreeing to. I also really wanted to see the Hulk in a really interesting new look, less monster more human.

This totally sets up the Fury/Betty relationship. I totally don't think Fury is above the "shoulder to cry on" angle to score with her. To qoute Seinfeld, "First, were there for them, and then were just there."

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

Re: Ultimate Wolverine Vs Hulk mini (Discussion/Spoilers) Thread

I was hoping we would see a really interesting reason why wolverine was willing to kill Banner. I sure by the mini we will understand why he initially did it and how bad he feel about agreeing to. I also really wanted to see the Hulk in a really interesting new look, less monster more human.

I agree with all of that. Wolverine really has no reason to do this and it's out of character, considering he's been trying to become more human than animal since Vaughan's run, to just agree to kill someone. Of course The Hulk/New York incident is pretty well known. And Logan could be thinking that Banner is no longer there. It's just Hulk.

Also, I'm really disappointed with The Hulk's portrayal too. I mean Pimp Hulk? What did we see in the Annual?

This totally sets up the Fury/Betty relationship. I totally don't think Fury is above the "shoulder to cry on" angle to score with her.

:x I should come to your home and smack you around for bringing that in here. There's nothing in the issue that suggest this. NOTHING!! It shows Betty still having feelings for Bruce and you somehow think there's sparks between Betty and Fury. Or are you confusing Jen Walters and Logan? ugh....

 

[DIrishB]

Re: Ultimate Wolverine Vs Hulk mini (Discussion/Spoilers) Thread

I was hoping we would see a really interesting reason why wolverine was willing to kill Banner. I sure by the mini we will understand why he initially did it and how bad he feel about agreeing to. I also really wanted to see the Hulk in a really interesting new look, less monster more human.

This totally sets up the Fury/Betty relationship. I totally don't think Fury is above the "shoulder to cry on" angle to score with her. To qoute Seinfeld, "First, were there for them, and then were just there."

No, it doesn't, because its not going to happen. Just realize that and move on.

I agree with all of that. Wolverine really has no reason to do this and it's out of character, considering he's been trying to become more human than animal since Vaughan's run, to just agree to kill someone.

You guys are wrong about it being out of character. Are you forgetting he was willing to kill a teenage mutant because of his powers? And don't say its not the same situation, because the details are exactly the same: they both inadvertently killed hundreds and have to die (at least from SHIELD's/Fury's point of view) to protect the general public. Maybe it was during Bendis's run, but it still counts. How much "reason" did he have to do that, besides taking a job assigned by Fury. The same applies here. Logan may be trying to be more human overall since joining the X-Men (not only during Vaughan's run), but he'll never be totally human. Much like Hulk never will be. And I think this issue addressed that aspect perfectly.

Of course The Hulk/New York incident is pretty well known. And Logan could be thinking that Banner is no longer there. It's just Hulk.

Or he could just not care. He's not really one to try and understand the reasonings or psychology of his adversaries, at least not much.

Also, I'm really disappointed with The Hulk's portrayal too. I mean Pimp Hulk? What did we see in the Annual?

That was a bit strange, but I'm sure it'll be explained in the next issue, at least to some degree. And its merely an example of Hulk's evolution as a character, which is something I think was needed. Obviously Xavier's sessions shown in Ultimates 2 have either given Banner more control, or at the very least allowed Hulk to operate with at least a level of consciousness, and even gentleness. It might have been a bit over the top, but so was Wolverine getting torn in half...and no one's complaining about that. Face it, its a mini based on a Wolverine vs. Hulk fight, a large degree of over-the-topness is to be expected and is appropriate in my opinion.

And as for your question about the Annual (which I'm sure was a sarcastic one), it was illustrated in the Annual that Bruce has more control over the Hulk because he didn't just attack everybody as he would've done previously, he only attacked (and apparently ate, then "pooped" out) the aggressors. Meaning he's trying to do the right thing, and help people. As for the Paris and Ireland episodes, this might show he's still having trouble containing complete control (unless there's a good reason for him wrecking that building in Paris), but the cows can be chalked up to, "Hulk hungry", and is no different than any of us eating a cheese-burger, except for the open flame.

I should come to your home and smack you around for bringing that in here. There's nothing in the issue that suggest this. NOTHING!! It shows Betty still having feelings for Bruce and you somehow think there's sparks between Betty and Fury. Or are you confusing Jen Walters and Logan? ugh....

Thank you for saying what I was thinking. She worries about Bruce's life and reminds both Logan and Fury his name is Bruce, that there's a gentle and good man underneath (however messed up he is), and to MaxwellSmart that's foreshadowing a Fury/Betty relationship? I am just blown away by this logic.

 

[Boondock Jew]

Re: Ultimate Wolverine Vs Hulk mini (Discussion/Spoilers) Thread

Also, I'm really disappointed with The Hulk's portrayal too. I mean Pimp Hulk? What did we see in the Annual?

I dunno, I kinda liked it. Like DIrishB said, it shows a sort of control Banner is gaining over the Hulk.

:x I should come to your home and smack you around for bringing that in here. There's nothing in the issue that suggest this. NOTHING!! It shows Betty still having feelings for Bruce and you somehow think there's sparks between Betty and Fury. Or are you confusing Jen Walters and Logan? ugh....

C'mon MwF, the guy's totally right and you know it. Every guy knows the fastest way into a girls pants is to tell her to shut up. Duh.

..... Alright, flame me for that one because even I think I deserve it.

Logan may be trying to be more human overall since joining the X-Men (not only during Vaughan's run), but he'll never be totally human. Much like Hulk never will be. And I think this issue addressed that aspect perfectly.

I think this sums up why this little mini has so much potential. It's pure primal action at its best. Most of my monthly stash of comics is Ultiverse stuff, and while I love the "deeper meaning" plot lines in a lot of the books, this I think is some welcome candy.

 

[fenway]

Re: Ultimate Wolverine Vs Hulk mini (Discussion/Spoilers) Thread

Wondering if Fury is becoming tired of being held accountable to some degree by Logan, and the mission is actually sending Logan to his death - This is why Jen inquires about his joints - intel they send to Banner (who then pops him apart) Banner is now in a witness protection program of sorts, because he's still useful to have around, but ultimately, at SHIELD's disposal, because he is also still a murderer.

Of course there are far too many holes in this idea for it to work, but its interesting sometimes to speculate 'out loud' on an unlikely tangent - because I DO feel that this mini will have some twists in it, and not be a slugfest.... I just don't really think the twists I mentioned are the right ones

 

[DIrishB]

Re: Ultimate Wolverine Vs Hulk mini (Discussion/Spoilers) Thread

Wondering if Fury is becoming tired of being held accountable to some degree by Logan, and the mission is actually sending Logan to his death - This is why Jen inquires about his joints - intel they send to Banner (who then pops him apart) Banner is now in a witness protection program of sorts, because he's still useful to have around, but ultimately, at SHIELD's disposal, because he is also still a murderer.

Of course there are far too many holes in this idea for it to work, but its interesting sometimes to speculate 'out loud' on an unlikely tangent - because I DO feel that this mini will have some twists in it, and not be a slugfest.... I just don't really think the twists I mentioned are the right ones

Good points. And this will definitly have some twists, after all, its written by Lindeloff, the guy who does Lost, and we all know thats full of twists.

I forgot to mention it previously, but I liked that they threw in that part with Jennifer asking about his joints...it was almost exactly like a conversation I was having with several other members about Wolverine's joints not being covered in adamantium (otherwise he wouldn't be able to flex or move at all), and that therefore it was a weak point. Lindeloff isn't ignoring anything so far, it seems.

 

[Ice]

Re: Ultimate Wolverine Vs Hulk mini (Discussion/Spoilers) Thread

Incorrect.

I just realized this. MWF, I meant correct. Sorry.

 

[DIrishB]

Re: Ultimate Wolverine Vs Hulk mini (Discussion/Spoilers) Thread

I just realized this. MWF, I meant correct. Sorry.

What'd you think of the issue, Ice, did you like it?

 

[Ice]

Re: Ultimate Wolverine Vs Hulk mini (Discussion/Spoilers) Thread

What'd you think of the issue, Ice, did you like it?

I actually didn't get it because I didn't get paid until today, and I can't cash it until Sunday. :cry:

 

[DIrishB]

I actually didn't get it because I didn't get paid until today, and I can't cash it until Sunday. :cry:

That sucks...well, let me assure you it rocks. I think you'll really enjoy it, I know I did. Maybe I was a bit hasty with the "liking it more than any Ultimates 2 issue", but I think it stands up in a very different way. Two totally separate animals so its unfair to compare, but I really, really enjoyed this book. Much more so than really any other book I've read in awhile (with exception of Ultimates 2, and Vaughan's UXM).

Did more people not read this issue today? I want to know what others thought of it. Obviously I liked it, but I want to hear others reviews, the pros and cons, and what they hope to see come out of the series.

 

[DIrishB]

Man, I'm just surprised. I thought a lot of people were looking forward to it and not many have posted at all. I mean I know its not The Ultimates, but more people responded even to Ultimate Iron Man...this is disappointing. Oh well, I look forward to seeing what Ice and E think of it, whenever they get a chance to pick it up and read it.

 

[DIrishB]

It's the holiday....no, **** that. It's because of the CHRISTMAS season, I assume.

But then again, E is sick, snow blocks people off, TGO and others only get theirs like once a month...

You're right, I guess I'm just getting a bit overzealous. For some reason I really liked the issue. The art suited the tone of the book perfectly, Lindelof seems to have capture Wolverine's character very well, as well as Fury and Betty (the little we saw), and I'm just really looking forward to seeing how he approaches Banner and Hulk.

 

[MaxwellSmart]

Re: Ultimate Wolverine Vs Hulk mini (Discussion/Spoilers) Thread

:x I should come to your home and smack you around for bringing that in here. There's nothing in the issue that suggest this. NOTHING!! It shows Betty still having feelings for Bruce and you somehow think there's sparks between Betty and Fury. Or are you confusing Jen Walters and Logan? ugh....

Here's my romance prediction that we'll see in the mini. Fury answers a call from a SHIELD agentas he's getting dressed about the Hulk situation . After he hangs up and is done getting dressed we see an angle of Fury where he's looking at a sleeping Betty in her bed, shakes his head in regret and leaves. I know this must piss you off, but as a firm supporter of the Fury/Betty relationship theory, I think "comforting" that went to far is a good way to cement how their relationship started. My other theory would be that Fury is basically Will Ferrell from Wedding Crashers.

 

[E]

Beautiful.

This is the best non-Ultimates Ultimate title I've read in a loooooong time. I'm not a big fan of this style of art, but it fits well enough so that it's not distracting.

The plot is awesome. Earthquakes are going on with no activity in the fault lines. Buildings getting bombed with no bomb materials being found. Herds of cattle killed and it's blamed on wolves, even though there are no wolves around. And then they find Hulk poop. With a finger in it. Awesome.

I just wonder why Wolverine smelled the serum instead of the poop in order to find Banner?

The ending was weird, with Hulk surrounded by babes, but I liked it in relation to the "where's all the women?" quip earlier.

This is awesome. I hope Orson Scott Card reads this before he starts work on Ultimate Iron Man 2 and sees how it's supposed to be done.

5/5

 

[Lynx]

Beautiful.

This is the best non-Ultimates Ultimate title I've read in a loooooong time. I'm not a big fan of this style of art, but it fits well enough so that it's not distracting.

The plot is awesome. Earthquakes are going on with no activity in the fault lines. Buildings getting bombed with no bomb materials being found. Herds of cattle killed and it's blamed on wolves, even though there are no wolves around. And then they find Hulk poop. With a finger in it. Awesome.

I just wonder why Wolverine smelled the serum instead of the poop in order to find Banner?

The ending was weird, with Hulk surrounded by babes, but I liked it in relation to the "where's all the women?" quip earlier.

This is awesome. I hope Orson Scott Card reads this before he starts work on Ultimate Iron Man 2 and sees how it's supposed to be done.

5/5

Second favorite Utimate issue ever, second only to Ultimates 2 #9. There wasn't one thing I disliked about the entire issue. Lindelof nailed Fury, Logan, and Betty's characters. Was awsome to see Jen Walters, and it'd be great to see She-Hulk eventually. And seeing Hulk calm and content with his little "harem" I felt not only nailed Ultimate Hulk's character, but it showed significant progress in Banner's attempt to control the beast within. Possibly a set up for a more "in-control" Hulk for either the end of Ultimates 2 or the beginning of Ultimates 3? Time will tell.

And the beginning was priceless. "#%$@er threw me legs four miles away", *Sniff* "$%#^*er threw my legs four miles up".

And Yu's art certainly delivered. It was gorgeous, much better then I remember from Superman: Birthright.

We're now 1/1 on good/bad stories by writers outside of comics. Hopefully our next non-comic writer (Bryan Singer?) can follow Lindelof's example, and not Card's.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

It was better than good guys but let's not jump the gun and give Lindelof all the credit until the mini comes out.

Another question I have is why is Banner letting Hulk run free? We see him dealing in the market as Bruce. But then he apparently Hulks out and indulges for the fun of it? I didn't think that was very Bruce Banner like.

The way Betty and Jen (If she's still Banner's cousin) talked about killing Bruce kind've bothered me. Even though Betty showed signs that she still had feelings, she ultimately said he had to die. She didn't think this way before the execution. I don't think it's Lindelof screwing characters up. I think something's going on here.

Wolverine's too willing in it though. That kind've bothers me. Unfortunately this is how he should've been the entire time unlike when Vaughan started turning him into a wimp.

I hope Jen Walter's isn't the only Hulk Ultimization we get.

 

[jtg3885]

 

[Lynx]

Another question I have is why is Banner letting Hulk run free? We see him dealing in the market as Bruce. But then he apparently Hulks out and indulges for the fun of it? I didn't think that was very Bruce Banner like.

I think it's just Banner's next step to controlling the jolly, green giant. Banner wants to control the Hulk, he's pushing his limit.

 

[Victor Von Doom]

Just finished reading it---this has to be one of the best Ultimate books I've read. Great opener....great ending.

We all know that both will walk away alive...but what I'm more intrigued by is the fact that Wolverine's supposedly "unbreakable" skeleton has been broken...where do you go from that? How do you explain that?

This was just great all around. A perfect substitute for the Ultimate Versus I was hoping for instead......Hulk Vs Thing.

 

[Lynx]

We all know that both will walk away alive...but what I'm more intrigued by is the fact that Wolverine's supposedly "unbreakable" skeleton has been broken...where do you go from that? How do you explain that?

There's two possible explanations:

1) Hulk ripped Wolverine apart at a joint, which wouldn't be covered in Adamantium or Wolverine wouln't be able to move.

or

2) Hulk is simply that strong. After all, he broke the Adamantium needle used in Ultimates 1 by Captain America.

 

[E]

1) Hulk ripped Wolverine apart at a joint, which wouldn't be covered in Adamantium or Wolverine wouln't be able to move.

That's my guess. I am waiting to see how Dr. Walter's comments about his joints deals with this. I'm guessing that's where she tells him that it's his weakness or something like that.

 

[Boondock Jew]

We all know that both will walk away alive...but what I'm more intrigued by is the fact that Wolverine's supposedly "unbreakable" skeleton has been broken...where do you go from that? How do you explain that?

I like the way that was handled too. Wolverine looking down and saying "Unbreakable? Huh, well... there goes that."

Seems adamantium isn't as powerful as its 616 counterpart; which I'm all for. It should be the strongest metal on Earth, but not unbreakable.

 

[Lynx]

That's my guess. I am waiting to see how Dr. Walter's comments about his joints deals with this. I'm guessing that's where she tells him that it's his weakness or something like that.

It more then likely is that explanation, althouh I'm not opposed to the second explanation either. After all, it's already happened.