Ultimate X-Men Annual #2 Discussion (Spoilers!)

Ultimate Cap 4 President

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This annual isnt what i thought it was gonna be... Dont get me wrong good book. But you just can't judge it by its cover let me tell you. This is where you tell me how much you liked it... :sure:
 
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Foolsfolly

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Re: Got that new Ultimate X-Men Annual #2... Let's Talk!! <Spoilers>

Haven't read it yet...earliest I will be able to will be tomorrow...and that's not for certain.

But I've been hoping that Dazzler and Nightcrawler don't hook up...it would be rather forced. Dazzler didn't take too well to Nightcrawler in the Longshot arc when he expressed his anti-gay feelings...so I find it out of character for her to go with Nightcrawler over Angel after finding out Kurt's pretty much stopped being an X-Man because Colossus happens to like guys.
 

Zombipanda

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Re: Got that new Ultimate X-Men Annual #2... Let's Talk!! <Spoilers>

Foolsfolly said:
Haven't read it yet...earliest I will be able to will be tomorrow...and that's not for certain.

But I've been hoping that Dazzler and Nightcrawler don't hook up...it would be rather forced. Dazzler didn't take too well to Nightcrawler in the Longshot arc when he expressed his anti-gay feelings...so I find it out of character for her to go with Nightcrawler over Angel after finding out Kurt's pretty much stopped being an X-Man because Colossus happens to like guys.

Whoooo boy. Trust me. You don't have to worry about that.

The Annual was definitely odd. It caught me completely off guard. Then again, I haven't been reading UXM for about a year now, so it may just be me. Have they been building up to Nightcrawler being a super freaky-deaky stalker creep for a while now?

Either way, I honestly DID like it. This version of Nightcrawler is definitely different from 616, and I've thought since his first appearance, he's been needing something to differentiate him from the rest of the pack. The character seemed pretty stale from all the times I saw him, but I think this did the job nicely. I like Kirkman alluding to the end of Magician without making clear exactly what happened. I liked the characterization of Rogue (although she looked straight fugly in a few of the shots of her). Kirkman seems to be building up to a few interesting things here, and I'm looking forward to seeing where he's going. The art wasn't great, but I can live with that.

All around, it was a pretty decent Annual that was pretty self-contained but still had an impact on the lives of those UXM kids. It seemed about on par with the USM Annual... not nearly as good as UFF, but definitely better than Ultimates. It didn't do a lot for me on its own, but it left my mouth watering for the next arc.

Bring Cable on, *****es!
 
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McCheese

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Re: Got that new Ultimate X-Men Annual #2... Let's Talk!! <Spoilers>

Foolsfolly said:
But I've been hoping that Dazzler and Nightcrawler don't hook up...it would be rather forced. Dazzler didn't take too well to Nightcrawler in the Longshot arc when he expressed his anti-gay feelings...so I find it out of character for her to go with Nightcrawler over Angel after finding out Kurt's pretty much stopped being an X-Man because Colossus happens to like guys.
Believe me you have nothing to worry about. Except of course the 3.99 wasted on this god awful book. This was bad. Really really bad. Spectacularly bad. Almost UIM or Ultimate Deadpool bad. I...I can't even really organize my thoughts. Bad characterization, insanely stupid plot, and prepare to have an x-men regular thrown under the bus. Then three stupid meaningless pages about Xaviers past with Emma and Mystique.

More later. Wow.
 

Zombipanda

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Re: Got that new Ultimate X-Men Annual #2... Let's Talk!! <Spoilers>

McCheese said:
Believe me you have nothing to worry about. Except of course the 3.99 wasted on this god awful book. This was bad. Really really bad. Spectacularly bad. Almost UIM or Ultimate Deadpool bad. I...I can't even really organize my thoughts. Bad characterization, insanely stupid plot, and prepare to have an x-men regular thrown under the bus. Then three stupid meaningless pages about Xaviers past with Emma and Mystique.

More later. Wow.

True fact about the Mystique back-up story. Complete waste. The main story really wasn't that bad. It was good, even. Hell, I may even like it better than Spidey's Annual.
 
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E.Vi.L.

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Re: Got that new Ultimate X-Men Annual #2... Let's Talk!! <Spoilers>

Please try posting a description of the issue if you are gonna open a thread.

Not mandatory, but common courtesy and much appreciated.

---

It opens with a flashback of Night Crawler assassinating a politician under orders from Weapon X.

NC really kicks some *** and it remind us of his first appearance under Millar.

Then another flashback to a month ago when Rogue returned to the mansion and first talked to Xavoer. She chats with Xavier about the fact that Gambit's power haven't faded and Xavier states it is only a matter of time before they do.

Then we move to Dazzler's room, last night. NC is watching over her creepily. She awakes from her coma and asks what's going on.

NC stares blankly for a short while and then completely snap : He tells Dazzler the X-Men have been attacked and she needs to go into hiding with him!

I did not see that coming!

He teleports her to a sealed off cave he uses when he wants solitude (not sure how he would have stumbled upon it but...)

Dazzler wants to know what's up, NC says he doesn't know and sticks to a simple "We're under attack and are hiding, Xavoer will tell me when it's safe" story. Hard to disprove, he has Dazzler comepletely isolated and relying on him for information.

Then we reach today (magic comic book time!). Xavier is chatting with Wolverine. It isn't stated outright but it looks a awful lot like Wolverine killed the Magician (in next UXM). They are interrupted by a call of the hospital stating that Dazzler has disappeared.

Back to the cave. NC is trying to get into Dazzler pants. No, not really, but he's spinning a good story and at this point Dazzler think it's sweet he cares so much but remind him she's still with Warren. NC goes back for supplies.

Back to the school, Xavier is taking the disparition seriously and wants the X-Men to look for her in her usual haunts (assuming she left of her own free will) while he goes to the hospital to do what psychics do.

NC comes in late in the briefing, wonder what he's goin on. He is told, says he wants to help, says he'll cover more ground by teleporting. He refuses to let Wolverine tag alone, saying it'll go faster alone.

Wolverine stays behind and report to Xavier that he picked Dazzler scent on NC. Xavier says he picked up the situation from NC mind (One days Xavier will need to stop with the charade that he asks permission before snooping in your brain!) and he is assembling the team telepathically in the hangar. Wolverine goes along but is advised not to kill Kurt under any circumstances.

Back to the cave, NC comes back with supply and start to chat with Dazzler but while his back is turned Kitty comes in and phase Dazzler out of the cave.

NC goes back to the surface to confront the X-Men, furious. Where's Jean when you need her? Turns out it's damn tough to capture a teleporter, especially if you try not to hurt him too bad.

Spectacular fight. NC sends Colossus in the cave, teleports Wolverine a miles away and Cyclops a hundred yard into the air (he did that last and by then was really losing it).

During the fight, Rogue's Gambit power fail her.

NC is stunned when he has the bad luck of being under Colossus when he fights his way back to the surface. The combat slows down as NC, Cyclops and Dazzler exchange choice words. And then he is neutralized by ROgue who touches him. Her powers are back!

Back to the house, Xavier wants everyone to keep quiet as he tries to help Kurt. He keeps him sedated (so he doesn't teleport away) and will try to heal him mind. He doesn't want Kurt in SHIELD custody.

Dazzler in unhappy ; now that what Kurt did is clear, she is furious at him and proclaim that if Kurt had kidnapped a choice student like Jean he wouldn't get the kid's glove treatement. She declares that she quits the X-Men.

Last Scene has Rogue visiting in secret the unconscious Kurt. She tells him she knows what it is to grow up with people thinking you are a monster. But after being in his head (thanks to her powers), she knows he is a monster. She leaves, Kurt, while apparently unconscious, cries.

The END

Bonus scenes with different artist : the explanation for Mystique the cat. We see a panel of Mystique furious at Xavier because he is now involved with Emma Frost. It is unclear if Xavier cheated or if their relationship was over. Next panel, Emma convince Xavier to keep a cat she is fond of, he reluctantly agrees and then sees the cat has made a mess in his office. Emma proclaims he should call the cat Mystique.

---

I liked it but you have to be ready for Night Crawler to go completely bat**** out of his mind. It was building under Kirkman's run and also a bit under BKV ; Kurt was becoming more isolated. Kirkman does a good set up by reminding us that Night Crawler did the same kind of ugly things Wolverine did (albeit not for as long).

Still, it does run counter to that scene where Kurt prevented Storm from killing the Weapon X commander.

Art is pretty good and the action sequences are well plotted and highlight NC's power the same way X2's intro did. Very cool.

4/5
 
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Gemini

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Re: Got that new Ultimate X-Men Annual #2... Let's Talk!! <Spoilers>

there was so much more that could have happened with rogue losing her gambit powers i mean come on!, something important should have happened there (also rogue shouln't have had regular eyes until the end issue at the begining looked really dumb)

otherwise this issue was OK kirkman likes to make characters look like stalkers doesn't he i hope thats not what happens to cable

imagine it "cables not really your son he's just an old mutant with an obsession over jean, how could you fall for that he's like 40, and this bishop caharacters is his parole officer"
 

iceman

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Re: Got that new Ultimate X-Men Annual #2... Let's Talk!! <Spoilers>

E.Vi.L. said:
I liked it but you have to be ready for Night Crawler to go completely bat**** out of his mind. It was building under Kirkman's run with and also a bit under BKV ; Kurt was becoming more isolated. Kirkman does a good set up by reminding us that Night Crawler did the same kind of ugly things Wolverine did (albeit not for as long).

Still, it does run counter to that scene where Kurt prevented Storm from killing the Weapon X commander.

Art is pretty good and the action sequences are well plotted and highlight NC's power the same way X2's intro did. Very cool.

4/5

while i don't think that BKV really built Nightcrawler this way (he seemed way healthy, even when he had to stay home and play hologram with Angel), i agree with just about everything else you said. weapon x f-ed up his mind.

maybe he saved Weapon X guy because he subliminally "lurved" him, as Tabitha would say.

i like how Nightcrawler is different from 616. the one thing i'm not sure i like is that it is implied he is crazy and evil on the inside, as Rogue said. she saw his mind, and acted like it's not Weapon X's fault. and she was in weapon x.
 

E.Vi.L.

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Re: Got that new Ultimate X-Men Annual #2... Let's Talk!! <Spoilers>

iceman said:
while i don't think that BKV really built Nightcrawler this way (he seemed way healthy, even when he had to stay home and play hologram with Angel), i agree with just about everything else you said. weapon x f-ed up his mind.

It's under BKV that Night Crawler expressed dismay that Dazzler would choose Warren, thinking that she would be the kind of girl to choose the "Devil". It's also under BKV that Kurt first expressed a hint of homophobia that would eventually drive a wedge between him and Colossus.

Kurt was closest to Warren and Colossus and it's under BKV that the seed of his estrangement from his friends was sown. I don't think that this is what BKV had in mind or would have done if he stayed on the book, but he did hand out the ball with which Kirkman would run.
 
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iceman

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Re: Got that new Ultimate X-Men Annual #2... Let's Talk!! <Spoilers>

true. but while Kurt may have shown disappointment, and a tad of homophobia (nothing like what Kirkman has shown, he shows him as a bigot), but I don't think BKV ever implied that he was flat out ka-razy. it takes more than loneliness for that. All Rogue has is essentially Bobby, she ain't crazy. No one except Rogue and kinda Kitty likes Bobby now! (I remember the Millar days, when he had friends) Bobby ain't crazy. Storm's boyfriend died, she went emo, she ain't crazy.

I'm not saying I don't like it, I'm saying it was a quick step. Though I suppose Annuals are for steps like that though.

4/5

I liked Larocca's art, for once!
 

E.Vi.L.

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Re: Got that new Ultimate X-Men Annual #2... Let's Talk!! <Spoilers>

iceman said:
true. but while Kurt may have shown disappointment, and a tad of homophobia (nothing like what Kirkman has shown, he shows him as a bigot), but I don't think BKV ever implied that he was flat out ka-razy.

No he didn't. BKV just gave Kirkman something to work with and he chose that direction for the character. Hence the ball metaphor.
 
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Victor Von Doom

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Re: Got that new Ultimate X-Men Annual #2... Let's Talk!! <Spoilers>

This was actually pretty good. If only the rest of Kirkman's UXM stuff could be like this.

What I liked about this is that Kirkman went back and touched on Crawler's Weapon X past. The one thing that always bugged me about the Weapon X crew was that these kids have been trained to be killers. The next Wolverines. But as soon as these kids got around the X-Men it seemed as if they just forgot all that training.

But Kirkman brought that up and showed that these kids are essentially "weapons". The way Crawler took out the team one-by-one....and in strategical order was awesome. Take out the heavy hitter first, then the most experienced, then the leader and so forth. Brilliant.

The dangerous stalker role that Crawler took on was a good twist too. He just wanted to be with someone so bad that he flipped.



Another good thing with this was how all this ties into current and future plots with UXM. Advancing Rogue's tie-in with Gambit and making her old powers return.....tieing off Dazzler's character. And I can only assume that this takes place after "Magical" since we see Jean there in uniform and no Magician.

Salvatore's art was pretty good at the beginning......but it seemed to get sloppy as the book went on. If you look at the fresh, crispness of the Crawler flashback....and compare it to the rest of the book it seems as if he was hyped to do this but then got distracted and he just turned in some sketch drafts.


The extra tie-in with "Why Professor X's Cat Is Named Mystique" was weak and not needed. They could've filled it with a few more pages from the annual's main story.

3/5




And no offense---but can we change the title of the thread to just "Ultimate X-Men Annual#2 *Spoilers*????
 
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E.Vi.L.

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Re: Got that new Ultimate X-Men Annual #2... Let's Talk!! <Spoilers>

Victor Von Doom said:
And I can only assume that this takes place after "Magical" since we see Jean there in uniform and no Magician.

Yeah, forgot to mention this :

We see Jean in uniform. But she doesn't join the team to takedown Night Crawler. In fact, she doesn't say a word and appear in just one panel.

On a metastory level, it's just as well. Even without the Phoenix force she'd have ended that fight in a blink of an eye since Kurt has no mental protection.

But from a logical point of view, it's damn weird. What's up?

It's almost as if Jean wasn't part of the story and is currently off the roster but the artist drew her by mistake in that one panel.

Damn weird, I tell you.

And no offense---but can we change the title of the thread to just "Ultimate X-Men Annual#2 *Spoilers*????

Yeah, we can't easily see that this the UXM Annual 2 thread while glancing at the recent discussion sidebar.
 
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McCheese

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Re: Got that new Ultimate X-Men Annual #2... Let's Talk!! <Spoilers>

Zombipanda said:
True fact about the Mystique back-up story. Complete waste. The main story really wasn't that bad. It was good, even. Hell, I may even like it better than Spidey's Annual.
Well that does seem to be the general consensus, so let me explain why I hated it.

This whole book is one big retcon of what we have been told and shown of Nightcrawler. Nightcrawler, even under Millar, always came off as a good guy. And suprisingly well adjusted to the whole weapon x thing. Hell, he was even the books center of morality when he saved the guy who made his life a living hell for all that time. Never a single sign of insanity. Lonely, a little depressed sure, but never crazy. Nightcrawler is even the one who talks down Storm when she flips out. Nightcrawler despite being an ugly freak is consistantly shown as one of the most human characters in the book. Now I was ok with a little homophobia. It added depth to the character that even though he was a generally good guy he still had this misguided old world view of homosexuals. But what happened in this book destroyed what depth he had and ruined the character. There is no coming back from being a psychotic kidnapper bigot. Ask Ultimate Deadpool it's hard enough to come back from just psychotic bigot. As for the 'hints' that this was coming. He only showed a passing interest in Dazzler, now he's kidnapped her and is planning for what to tell their children. He went from loveable loser with a crush to unlikable psycho with severe delusions way to quickly. Now we've managed to switch characters in a coma. Just what this book needed. Then Rogue comes in and rubs salt in the wound, just to make sure that no writer will try and redeem this crap.

Seperate issues, can someone at Marvel please decide whether Ultimate Wolverine is a remorseless or remorseful killer. It changes from writer to writer and sometimes issue to issue. Since when could Nightcrawler dismantle the whole team. He's been almost as useless fighting in these books as Kitty and now he takes down Wolverine, Colossus, Cyke, and Storm. I'm not even arguing that with his powers it wouldn't be possible, but why hasn't he shown it before.

0.5/5 - only because it didn't burst into flames when I picked it up.
 

Thor

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Re: Got that new Ultimate X-Men Annual #2... Let's Talk!! <Spoilers>

Well I really liked this issue guys. The Weapon X scenes were great, good action scenes, and I liked the twists and characterization. Really good issue and I liked how Nightcrawler is a stalker. I think once he comes back his mind will be cleared and he will have a new look on the world and become....dun dun dun, religous! Well thats my 2 cents.

4/5

Much better than the Ultimates Annual.
 

Zombipanda

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Re: Got that new Ultimate X-Men Annual #2... Let's Talk!! <Spoilers>

The Annual clearly takes place after the events of Magical. Prof. X and Wolverine are having a discussion about how Wolves had to use lethal force to dispatch of the Magician. I'm guessing Phoenix was kept in the sidellines to prevent from spoiling too much.

I don't think the shift is all that huge for Nightcrawler. The X-Men were really the only friends he ever had. They were his support network to take care of all the bad **** that happened in Weapon X and now he' feels betrayed by them. Ali was all he had left.

I hope this doesn't mean Dazzler's going to be written out of the book, though. I really dig her.

but I still can't get over how ugly the art was, though.
 

McCheese

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Re: Got that new Ultimate X-Men Annual #2... Let's Talk!! <Spoilers>

Zombipanda said:
I don't think the shift is all that huge for Nightcrawler. The X-Men were really the only friends he ever had. They were his support network to take care of all the bad **** that happened in Weapon X and now he' feels betrayed by them. Ali was all he had left.
It was a huge shift. He still had that support network, he still had friends on the team. This creepy crazy kidnapper thing comes out of left field. Some sign of mental instability prior to this might have made it better, but he just went wacko because of the Weapon X thing NOW? He barely ever mentioned it was bugging him and he never seemed all that haunted by it. Just because you can rationalize something away doesn't mean you should. Crazy came out of nowhere. Crazy because of Weapon X is stupid and needed some sort of set up. A few pages of him killing a guy for weapon x doesn't qualify as set up. And he never had Ali, he had no reason to think he did EXCEPT for a sudden and unexplained bout of the crazies.
 
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Ultimate Cap 4 President

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Re: Got that new Ultimate X-Men Annual #2... Let's Talk!! <Spoilers>

This annual wasnt what i expected out of it... I'd been waiting for it for like 2 months and the outcome of the story caught me off guard completely... But i must admit i love nightcrawlers character even more now that i know he has a serious flaw in him besides his looks... This is the way nightcrawler was suppose to be written he's like a nam' vet with his head being all messed up from his missions with Weapon X... Cudos to Kirkman for his character development skills... I can see nightcrawler doing BIG things in later issues... BIG THINGS I TELL YOU!!!:shock:
 

Foolsfolly

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Well, still have read it, but in defense of Nightcrawler's crazies...

He had Angel and Colossus, both are gone. I think he was jealous of Angel which lead to his wanting her. And seriously, sometimes when you have a crush on someone you think of them differently than they are. I think he thought Dazzler would for some reason wake up and take Kurt into her arms and be together forever. Which is bull of course.

Kurt has been talking to a comatosed Dazzler for the last 8 issues. Spending all his time there instead of with the X-Men. That shows he was obsessed with Dazzler. In his mind who knows what he thought Dazz would be like when she woke up.

Now with that said, I've long thought NC was held back in this book. His powers were rarely used by the writers and I will be looking forward to seeing some awesome Nightcrawler bamfing attacks.

BUT...I do not like Rogue's comment on Nightcrawler. I'm all for a loney, love struck Nightcrawler thinking "If I made her think we were the last people on this Earth she'll surely love me" and going a little crazy from loneiness. But to say he's a monster? That's a bit too far. But they've said the same about Wolverine and some change of the staus quo IS what we've been begging for...or at least what I was asking for.

I CANNOT WAIT to read this!
 

the watcher

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Well Nightcrawler must get well by the Ultimates 2 #12 or #13. Because he was on that cover we saw. So we should be seeing more on how in the next few arcs. I'd like to see how they resolved this...

But for now, I did like this one. I give it a 4.2/5

ULTMTSV2012.jpg
 
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