Ultimates 2 #11 <spoilers>

I'm just wondering what the ramifications of Banner showing up will be. Now that he apparantly has full control to the point where he's just showing off, ie, "Watch this, one hand." I think it's a great Ultimization of the character. My bet is that the president scraps the whole idea of the Ultimates all together. After this fiasco Cap, Iron Man, Thor, Wasp, Hawkeye, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, and Hulk become real superheroes with no authority figures. Also they would add a couple of members such as Falcon, Vision, and She-Hulk if she shows up in HvW. S.H.I.E.L.D. would just be turned into a human strike force like in 616 and Thunderbolt Ross would take over Fury's spot as head of S.H.I.E.L.D. with Fury being demoted.

The only Liberators I can see staying alive at the end of this arc are the Colonel, Loki, and Abomination. The greatest thing for me would be if in the battle between Cap and the Colonel he reacts to the SS serum like suggested earlier, but instead of killing him, deforms his head and face and discoloring his skin, making him a true, Red Skull.

That's my two cents.
 
maybe it was the heady excitement of issue 11 arriving on my doorstep much earlier than expected, but did anyone else think that when Hulk said "watch this" he was addressing the reader, rather than the crowd? In the style of an aside to the camera in a film. If so, it rocked my boat muchly :D

Is issue 12 really due in Feb next year as it says on the main menu of the board? And if so is it the expected 48 page double sized jobbie?
 
olavthehairy said:
maybe it was the heady excitement of issue 11 arriving on my doorstep much earlier than expected, but did anyone else think that when Hulk said "watch this" he was addressing the reader, rather than the crowd? In the style of an aside to the camera in a film. If so, it rocked my boat muchly :D

Is issue 12 really due in Feb next year as it says on the main menu of the board? And if so is it the expected 48 page double sized jobbie?
The Hulk's always addressing the readers. You just have to be able to see past the words and the message is clear.....

Well, enough of that bull s***. I get what you mean, though. I attribute it to the Hulk being a show off, though. He's addressing his audience, which from our perspective is us.
 
the watcher said:
for MWoF's question, Millar did say not everyone hero that shows up, on the cover. Are the only characters that are going to be in the issue. He did say the Defenders will show... Of course I don't know why? They don't have powers. But I'm sure will catch a glimpse of some other heroes. Maybe will see DD hit someone over the head with his Billy club.

Well, Millar said that the Defenders would show up in a more serious role towards the end of the series. I have a feeling that the Defenders are going to lead a civilian resistance, especially if Son of Satan really is a SHIELD operative undercover.
 
Lynx said:
Well, Millar said that the Defenders would show up in a more serious role towards the end of the series. I have a feeling that the Defenders are going to lead a civilian resistance, especially if Son of Satan really is a SHIELD operative undercover.

Whatever their role is, don't expect anything that's gonna take up more than a page. Like The Union, Miller seems to be focusing on the central characters a great deal more than what the rest of the world's heroes. If it's a scene with The Defenders standing over a Dynamo robot with the crowd cheering for them and that's all, that'll be enough for me.

What's really killing me is what The Union's plan is and what Brian Braddock has planned.
 
I doubt it. I still think they have some other superhuman up their sleeves they haven't reveiled yet. But it wouldn't be a new Ultimization, but a preexisting character who hasn't been seen a lot. Maybe they're going to use S.T.R.I.K.E. the European version of S.H.I.E.L.D. led by Betsy Braddock. It could make since seeing as she was a character ultimized purley by Millar in his UXM run.
 
UltimateJedi said:
I guess I wasn't as clear as I hoped.

My point was that the UXM and Spiderman are both on poor terms with SHEILD, that much we agree on, am I right? (And by poor terms I mean read Magnetic North in UXM and Hobgoblin in USM.

Definitly.

Wouldn't make sense then that SHEILD (specifically the Ultimates) and any other government funded agencies (like the UFF) would tern on them? Are they not technically enemies of the state, or am I still high?

You're still high. If they were "enemies of the state" then SHIELD and the authorities would be after them. This isn't the case with Spider-Man (at least SHIELD isn't after him, the cops/authorities are a different story) or the X-Men (heck, Fury is still dropping off mutants at the X-Mansion...see the Date Night arc in UXM, #66-68 ). So, yes, you're still high. So...can you share? ;)

Also as far as the villians go, each of them wants to rule the word in their own way, don't they. The don't target the "good guys" they target the authority figures (except maybe Doc Ock). The Liberators are the new Authority figures, for the time being at least. Why wouldn't they attack them?

Its possible, but I think you're looking at the villains a bit too simplistically. Perhaps Doom has notions of world domination, but we haven't seen anything yet of the other main Ultimate universe villains (Green Goblin, Doc Ock, Megneto) that says they have such ambitions. Magneto could be argued in that stance I suppose, but he's working more for a world dominated by mutants, not just himself (though I'm sure he'd have top seat in even that pecking order if given his way). So perhaps Magneto and Doom, but not the Spidey villains. Their main motivation has seemed to be taking out SHIELD (especially Osborn's).

I hop I didn't sound "high" this time around.

Nah. Do I?

Zombipanda said:
And FYI, I'm high as a kite right now.

Nice.

Rhyo said:
I REALLY wish he'd just make up political figures rather than using "real" ones. I like having quasi-realistic politics in comics (Iraq, weapons of mass destructions) but I think it's tacky to use real figures, plus it dates the heck out of a comic. I don't care about the celebrity references (although I admit I don't know who some of them are - I had to look up Shannon whoever), but I'd rather see something more... creative used for the political (or religious) figures.

Personally, I like the fact he uses versions of real people. It makes the story much more applicable to our own reality (despite that reading comics is meant to be a way to escape it...interesting dichotomy there) in my opinion, while still entertaining. Its also an easy way to poke jabs at a politician or other public figure, which in the end is just all in good fun and for a laugh. That I can appreciate. So I must say I have to disagree on those points. However, I do agree it does tend to date a comic and can create problems later on down the road in terms of continuity.

thee great one said:
You think that the Union had to do with Banner getting there?

Right now, I'm assuming thats what Braddock was referring to in #11 about their secret or back-up plan. We'll see in #12 (I assume pretty safely).

Hibiki said:
What if they know about stark? But that is alittle far-fetched. And if hulk is back, where is wolverine?

In handcuffs under guard by the Liberators, probably. I can't remember, but I know some of the X-Men were shown in the background of one of the panels of #11 (as well as Spidey), but I can't remember if Wolverine was shown. I know Iceman and Colossus were. Maybe Cyclops too, if I remember correctly.
 
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DIrishB said:
Its possible, but I think you're looking at the villains a bit too simplistically. Perhaps Doom has notions of world domination, but we haven't seen anything yet of the other main Ultimate universe villains (Green Goblin, Doc Ock, Megneto) that says they have such ambitions. Magneto could be argued in that stance I suppose, but he's working more for a world dominated by mutants, not just himself (though I'm sure he'd have top seat in even that pecking order if given his way). So perhaps Magneto and Doom, but not the Spidey villains. Their main motivation has seemed to be taking out SHIELD (especially Osborn's).
I think Osborn would jump on the take "over the world" band wagon real easily, he just needs the opportunity

Personally, I like the fact he uses versions of real people. It makes the story much more applicable to our own reality (despite that reading comics is meant to be a way to escape it...interesting dichotomy there) in my opinion, while still entertaining. Its also an easy way to poke jabs at a politician or other public figure, which in the end is just all in good fun and for a laugh. That I can appreciate. So I must say I have to disagree on those points. However, I do agree it does tend to date a comic and can create problems later on down the road in terms of continuity.
I dont like having political figures it just feels like a contradiction in reality. It doesnt feel right to see Bush next to Cap. I rather have only political and social likeness of reality. I dont mind celebrites if its not like how thwy had Freddie Price, or Shannon Elizabeth, ones like Larry King or Orparh, on their show, fits
 
Random said:
I think Osborn would jump on the take "over the world" band wagon real easily, he just needs the opportunity

I really don't think so. I think Osborn is a smart enough guy to realize he's not smart enough to run the world. He wants what he wants...and I just don't believe ruling the world is it. Other forms of power, sure, but not that.

I dont like having political figures it just feels like a contradiction in reality. It doesnt feel right to see Bush next to Cap. I rather have only political and social likeness of reality. I dont mind celebrites if its not like how thwy had Freddie Price, or Shannon Elizabeth, ones like Larry King or Orparh, on their show, fits

I don't understand the contradiction in reality comment. Its not our own reality, but one meant to be very much like our own with the addition of super-heroes and other comic book elements. I feel the inclusion of real world figures (political or celebrity) only adds to that.
 
Osborn just wants to be in a position where he can tell the person running the world... "Hey, Do this." and they do it.
 
TheManWithoutFear said:
I think Ultimate Osborne's one true objective is to make Peter Parker suffer. For that matter I don't think he's really interested in any sort of domination unless it's over an advesary.

He doesn't want him to suffer but has a sadistic obsession with him and wants him to do his bidding because he is better then him.
 
Yay, Hulk.

Enough speculation on my part, so none of that silly business. So I'm just going to say that even after all the delays, the general lowering of standards of the Ultimate line, this is still an exceptionally good superhero book.

Yes, Hulk, more Hulk. I want to be friends with the Hulk and sit down and have pizza and play videogames with him. That's how good he is, he's good enough to have pizza with.
 
TheManWithoutFear said:
I think Ultimate Osborne's one true objective is to make Peter Parker suffer. For that matter I don't think he's really interested in any sort of domination unless it's over an advesary.

i think after ultimate 6 osborne would love to make nick fury suffer. i can def. see him busting out of jail in the chaos (assuming he's ok), and doing some damage then talking to the liberators about being left alone.
 
Speculation

One of the things I love about the Ultimates is the speculation that follows every issue. I've read #11 at least 10 times now, and every issue before that probably more (due to the delays, etc.).

My own thoughts on what will happen next:

I think Hank Pym will try to play the good guy, turning the Ultrons against the Liberators expecting to be welcomed back to the Ultimates with open arms. I expect the opposite reaction from them, but I don't expect Cap to just "biatchslap" him (as someone said) and then Hank commits suicide. On the other hand, I expect him to get beat down by Cap or Fury or whoever... then arrested for treason. He did, after all, conspire with the enemy. Just letting him go off and commit suicide or drown his sorrows in a bottle, that doesn't seem likely. If that's the case, he will probably be the newest prisoner in the Triskelion's prison block. I do enjoy the possibility of the Ultron(s) going rogue at some point in time, however. An Avengers-based book wouldn't be complete without Ultron.

Scenario two for Hank Pym is that he turns on the Liberators, but is killed by one of them because of it. Either way, I don't expect a happy ending for Hank.

I'm not sure what to think about Iron Man, but the pod for Iron Man 6 was huge, so it's definitely going to be "big". I doubt he'd keep a "Quinjet" docked on a satellite, but I could be wrong. What I would personally love to see there is a huge mech-style Iron Man. Iron Optimus Prime, perhaps, but without the "transformer" schtick. Just a huge Iron Man that will bring down god's wrath on Crimson Dynamo and his War of the Worlds-style minions. Call it War Machine if you want to.

Then again, Iron Man 6 could be, as someone has predicted already, something based on Chitauri or Kree/other alien tech. During Ultimate Extinction, he did show a desire to reverse engineer Kree technology.

Hawkeye is on a mission of revenge. It doesn't really matter who gets messed up in his wrath, only that his wrath is carried out. I like Ultimate Hawkeye on a level that I never liked 616 Hawkeye. He is to the Ultimates what Bruce Willis was to Die Hard. No super soldier, no fancy technology, mutant magic or scientific genius. Just a gritty bad-*** who gets the job done in the clutch.

The Union apparently has some kind of back-up plan, but that's a gray area for me. I have no clue what they have up their sleeves... but knowing as much of the Captain Britain backstory as I do... I will say that I hope it has nothing to do with Ultimate Merlin. That would just suck. I doubt they had anything to do with the Hulk showing up again. I think the Hulk is perfectly capable of showing up on his own. Banner is a genius and if he could get around Europe and the Eastern hemisphere without setting off too many SHIELD alarms before Fury got wise and sent Logan after him, I'm pretty sure he could find a way to get back to the US without raising any eyebrows.

As for the Hulk, I love seeing him back and with Banner "in control of his inner sociopath". I don't expect that to last for long, as it never lasted too long in 616 continuity. Hulk should always be a back and forth character. Banner gets control only for so long until the real HULK goes on his rampages. That's the beauty of the character. Nonetheless, he will be somewhat of a deux ex machina, though I doubt as much as he was against the Chitauri.

Thor's going to kick so much *** it won't even be funny. I believe that Gunnar/Loki's story from earlier in the series about the vest/belt and hammer being technology was true, but it wasn't Thor/lief who stole it. It was Loki, who in turn, handed it over to the man who would become Perun. Thor's stuff is his own, given to him by birthright and his father Odin. I can envision him using his actual powers (as opposed to Perun's acquired powers) to fry out Perun's gear and then give him a proper Asgardian beatdown. I've been a huge fan of Ultimate Thor since day one, he's just an excellent character. Can't wait to see him open up a can.

Cap vs. "The Colonel W", whatever the "W" stands for (a poster on millarworld suggested "Wali", which apparently means "Protector" in Arabic... others are salivating at the possibility that he's Ultimate Wonder Man, but I don't see that scenario being realized in this instance!). That's just going to be some icing on the cake. Wether or not this Colonel turns out to be the Red Skull in the future, I'm sure he won't be taking a permanent leave after Cap handles him. Every character needs an arch enemy, and this will probably be Cap's for a long time to come... it's inevitable that Ultimate Cap will get his own series eventually, so he's going to need as many baddies as possible to face in those pages.

The good guys are going to win, the gist of the last 2 issues will be the Ultimates with a few panels dedicated to the supporting cast (UXM, UFF, USM, et al) but I really don't think any Triskelion prisoners or other villains will be showing up to save the day or otherwise. That would just create too much of a morass which is not a good idea when you're trying to close out a story arc.

But the one prediction I'll make and stick by is that #12 and #13 are going to be two of the very best issues out of the entire v.1 and v.2 series'.

5/5. Naysayers be damned.
 
simply splendid synopsis sir! :mrgreen:

especially liked your thinking on the thor harness/hammer issue and the consequences for Perun :D
 

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