Ultimates V2 #10 Discussion (SPOILERS)

[moonmaster]

Hawkeye's Escape: Like Rhyo said, please don't overthink it. It was a great moment. It might not have made all that much sense, but it was still pretty badass.

Hawkeye's Location: I think he's far away. Probably in Europe. And I hope he stays there. E.Vi.L pretty much said what I was going to say: Hawkeye is going to go on a ****ing killing spree in the Headquarters of this enemy coalition. His message to them ("Run") was pretty literal.

I've been thinking for a while now: 616 Hawkeye's supposed to be this total badass, but UU Hawkeye is sort of...lame. It almost seems that Millar has been playing Hawkeye as a wuss with the full intention of his family being killed and him turning into this unbelievable badass. Its like this is where Hawkeye finally becomes Hawkeye.

The Red Skull: I don't know why everyone "needs" him to be the Red Skull. I realized part of the way through this issue that he probably isn't going to be called the Red Skull. He is the Red Skull, but I don't think he'll ever be called that. Why? He or his allies would never use it. Its too villainish and He isn't the villain (from their perspective). And why would Cap think to call him the Red Skull? I know he wears a red mask, but it still would seem pointless. Its not like its an insult. And I don't think he'll actually become a "red skull". Its kind of ridiculous. Colonel Al-Rahman sounds much better. To be honest, I hope he dies at the end of the arc. I'd like for him to be this very serious, noble soldier, just like Cap. And in the end, he dies (either by accident, Cap, or himself). He shouldn't become some corny recurring villain.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

Isn't Hawkeye being contained like right in the backyard? I thought they said he was in a basement somewhere. And one of the best parts of the Hawkeye thing was when he mentioned Natasha by name. That was powerful just because.

 

[Bass]

Hawkeye's Escape: Like Rhyo said, please don't overthink it. It was a great moment. It might not have made all that much sense, but it was still pretty badass.

The problem I have is not that "fingernails don't kill people, bullets do", but rather this - Hawkeye could've done this at ANY TIME. Why is he waiting around for MORE guards to be in the room before he escapes? It makes less sense to escape now than in #9. It doesn't make sense for the character. The other problem is I just can't see how he got them off his fingers in the first place. But both of these problems could be solved if Dragomir, as a form of torture, was removing Hawkeye's fingernails with bamboo. I just think Hawkeye's supposed to be in hell, and once he puts on gloves, it'll be like nothing happened. (Save for the dead kids.)

That said - I do like what Dragomir said about Hawkeye's wife.

He should've said it about the kids. :twisted:

Colonel and Hurricane (or was it Swarm?) talking about holding "free elections" and the Colonel mentioning that it isn't the American citizens fault for the corrupt actions of their government

You're right. This is a fabulous touch that I didn't mention. This was a very nice bit from Hitllar.

Hurricane's line about elections (vis a vis the recent elections in Iraq) and the two soldiers who want to get a picture with the captured Wasp (US soldiers at Abu Ghraib).

:shock: I totally didn't get the Wasp thing. That's brilliant!

I forgot to mention I liked the parallel of Wasp being the only Ultimate not screwed, just like in the first volume.

Second, I think that the Colonel is NOT receptive to the serum. remember Lieberman? He was fine for a while, right?

I think Abdul will be fine and suddenly he will have an adverse reaction, and then his skull will get f'd up (hence red skull); however, I dont think he will die. I think it will just mess up his physicality. Making it so that it only worked on Steve perfectly, and nearly perfectly on "the faithful" Abdul.

I'm pretty sure I already said something like that in the spec thread, but to reiterate;

I think it would be better if he took the serum, knowing it would turn him into a Red Skull-disfigured chap and kill him, and his face would be the face of The Cause.

But it is SO going to be an 11th hour death/disfiguring for Red Skull, a la Lieberman.

They've both had the serum for the same amount of time after all. And Red Skull has yet to fight anyone. And Millar said the serum is wearing off Cap meaning it's temporary anyway and this would be important in Ultimates. Maybe Cap gets disfigured, or Cap discovers what awaits him - it's just happening really slowly in his case.

And now we know why her implants were "itching" in issue 9.

It was obviously a lie so she wouldn't be at the Triskelion. When she kisses Tony, she's looking at her watch. She specifically doesn't want to be at a certain place at a certain time. Nothing to do with the nanites. It was probably mentioned to remind us she had such things in her body for #10. Very well played, actually.

BTW : If Tony can download information from Natascha's brain, he could have learned of the conspiracy months ago. Think about it.

True. But he'd need a reason to root around her brain like that. It would be a bit out of character for him to just do that without reason.

As was the Red Skull being the kid from #7 when they took away the nuclear weapons. Everyone asked, "is he Loki"? Nope. Red Skull. That's foreshadowing, my friends. Good job by the guys on that one.

And just where is the Union?

 

[Korinthian]

Good issue, the triumphs were nice.

Killing people with flung finger nails is stupid, though, unless you are a mutant (which i begin to suspect Hawkeye to be), even though it was cool.

Cap was his old boring self.

And that Captain Middle East... "Oh, look guys, he's a carbon copy of Captain America, let's make him the invasion force leader, GENIUS."

Tony downloaded stuff from her Widow's brain (*groan*), but at least he smacked her (that saved that scene).

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

Killing people with flung finger nails is stupid, though, unless you are a mutant (which i begin to suspect Hawkeye to be)

...

*twitch*

Hawkeye101... is that you???

Cap was his old boring self.

With his one line??? How can you address him being boring for one line of dialogue in an extra-long issue?!

*shakes head in crazy disbelief*

 

[Bass]

I added another way that could've made the Black Widow reveal better in my opinion.

We are told Black Widow is the traitor in #5, long before the team even know there is one. This would allow the set up of her motiviations and allies and create a sense of impending doom. What would be lost was the wonderful feeling this comic had from the first issue of the second volume, which was that there was something completely alien and unknowable coming to **** with everything and we couldn't stop it. Carbon copies of the superheroes kinda killed that though.

Anyhoo. I'm done for the night.

Just accept that I'm right and you're all wrong. :wink:

 

[E]

BTW : If Tony can download information from Natascha's brain, he could have learned of the conspiracy months ago. Think about it.

He would have had to gone into her brain to get it. Up until this point he had no reason to do so.

 

[MoS]

And it's possible that the process of getting the info out is what Tony referred to when he said he "brain-damaged" her. Not something you want to do if you don't have to. Of course, he could also have meant smashing her across the head with the bottle - which, really, why DID he do that? She couldn't move, she was as helpless as the Black Widow gets at that point. Why not just handcuff her? He's clearly somehow summoned his security people, as they show up seconds after he hits her.

And, ummm, how did Natasha get dressed between this issue and last? Didn't she have on something with tiny little straps last issue? Of course, I think Tony had less on, too, so she must have let him get dressed. (Because you need to have your shirt on when you teleconference with a Swiss banker.)

 

[Random]

The problem I have is not that "fingernails don't kill people, bullets do", but rather this - Hawkeye could've done this at ANY TIME. Why is he waiting around for MORE guards to be in the room before he escapes? It makes less sense to escape now than in #9. It doesn't make sense for the character. The other problem is I just can't see how he got them off his fingers in the first place. But both of these problems could be solved if Dragomir, as a form of torture, was removing Hawkeye's fingernails with bamboo. I just think Hawkeye's supposed to be in hell, and once he puts on gloves, it'll be like nothing happened. (Save for the dead kids.)

He probably had to wait until he had a fingernail, which he was probably picking at it the whole time, then he had to wait until the guy was in range. He had to wait for the perfect shot cause thats the only way to kill with a finger nail it has to be perfect

 

[moonmaster]

And it's possible that the process of getting the info out is what Tony referred to when he said he "brain-damaged" her. Not something you want to do if you don't have to. Of course, he could also have meant smashing her across the head with the bottle - which, really, why DID he do that? She couldn't move, she was as helpless as the Black Widow gets at that point. Why not just handcuff her? He's clearly somehow summoned his security people, as they show up seconds after he hits her.

Because she's a *****. She played Tony, made possible the most dramatic and brazen attack on the US in its history, killed Hawkeye's family, lied to everyone, had planned to kill him and worst of all, she was going to take all his money. I'd say breaking a bottle over her face is the least he could've done to her...

And, ummm, how did Natasha get dressed between this issue and last? Didn't she have on something with tiny little straps last issue? Of course, I think Tony had less on, too, so she must have let him get dressed. (Because you need to have your shirt on when you teleconference with a Swiss banker.)

I don't think she would've made her grand exit in nothing but a pair of black, spider web panties (I pay attention to such things.:wink: ). And plus, Hitch would've had to do a lot of creative shots to avoid any nudity.

 

[thee great one]

Whoa.

A+

 

[Thiraknut]

Even with America in tatters and his head shoved onto a desk, Cheney still tells the villain to go to hell. 'Nuff said.

 

[innocentboy]

xxx123

 

[marvelman]

Tony downloaded stuff from her Widow's brain (*groan*), but at least he smacked her (that saved that scene).

Don't you mean he downloaded stuff from widow's brain into his BODY??

*megagroanf***orsonscottcard*

 

[E]

And it's possible that the process of getting the info out is what Tony referred to when he said he "brain-damaged" her. Not something you want to do if you don't have to. Of course, he could also have meant smashing her across the head with the bottle - which, really, why DID he do that? She couldn't move, she was as helpless as the Black Widow gets at that point. Why not just handcuff her? He's clearly somehow summoned his security people, as they show up seconds after he hits her.

I'm guessing that if he knew that he had a secret with the nanites, he had no idea what she might have up her sleeve. Just playing it safe?

Don't you mean he downloaded stuff from widow's brain into his BODY??

*megagroanf***orsonscottcard*

Buzzkill.

 

[Random]

Don't you mean he downloaded stuff from widow's brain into his BODY??

*megagroanf***orsonscottcard*

Could have been through his own nanites

 

[ProjectX2]

Excellent. Hawkeye is like my favourite character.

 

[ProjectX2]

And Dragomir or whatever the torturer's name was should have punched Hawkeye in the mouth. Then Hawkeye could have gone, "Thanks for that you idiotic ****face!" and then spit his teeth at people while flinging fingernails.

 

[Ultimates]

Ya know..... using fingernails as weapons? ORIGINAL. and anyone who complains about the realistic possibility of someone being able to do that... dude, stop reading comics then, because ur gonna find alot of things that arent "realistic".

And as for how many people think he should have used his teeth? Yea, would have been cool, if Mark Millar decided he was going to start stealing ideas from other writers.... such as Daniel Way from Bullseye's Greatest Hits, issue 5. I've seen both done in comics, and while both are very cool (and Bullseyes Greatest Hits is a REALLY fun read), I'd much prefer Millar do something original.

 

[Korinthian]

and anyone who complains about the realistic possibility of someone being able to do that... dude, stop reading comics then, because ur gonna find alot of things that arent "realistic".

Another one that just won't understand. I don't want to explain this again, so I'll just smile and nod.





And don't call me dude.