Ultimates V2 #10 Discussion (SPOILERS)

[marvelman]

mmmm... i think he would need better motivation than cap saying "your slate is unclean"... you know what I mean??

 

[MaxwellSmart]

I'm mostly saying he would commit suicide out of guilt. He can't forgive himself for what he did. Not, he can't stand the prospect of never being forgiven by Cap. I see this more likely to happen if Jan got killed or something like it.

 

[Korinthian]

I had Pym, the wife-beater, pegged as a guy who rather blamed others than blaming himself, like a suicidal person would.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

My personal Pym theory:

he sees the Ultimates mounting an attack on the Liberators and decides he needs to finally do the right thing. He activates an overide of the Ultron robots and orders them to aid in the attack. They do some damage to the invading force and contribute to the win. After the battle is won, Cap comes up to Hank and tells him he won't kill him, but his betrayal can never be "washed clean." Cap leaves and we see hank take a gun and shoot himself. As he's dying, we see his Ultron robots standing over him...

This is meant to be an allusion to how the 616 Vision was originally created from the mind of Wonderman.

I like it. I'm also thinking that we need the Ultron robots to turn against the Liberators because they can handle the suicide-soldiers and even the odds

 

[vader]

I like this Pym story but, i would like it to happen this way...

Pym comes to the rescue, thinks everything is fine, he see's captain america coming over. Pym smiles, happy he did the right thing...
Pym gets hit in the face by cap and gets put in prison,
In the process of the story cap says something witty.

 

[Korinthian]

...and while Pym's in jail, sleeping on the uncomfortable stone floor, Captain America comes in and kicks him when he's down...


FOR AMERICA!

 

[Doc Comic]

...and while Pym's in jail, sleeping on the uncomfortable stone floor, Captain America comes in and kicks him when he's down...

FOR AMERICA!

 

[Bass]

:lol:

 

[innocentboy]

xxx123

 

[train]

I've been reading about theories regarding Pym and the Ultron robots. After reading issue 10, I thought that Pym was going to use the Ultron robots to even the table once Tony, Thor and Cap make their move. But doesn't it seem too easy?

The Colonel made references if the Liberators could trust Pym. If trust was an issue, why then give him charge of thousands (?) of robots?

 

[E.Vi.L.]

I buy Tony as paranoid, but I don't buy him intruding on Natasha's mind unless it's a desperate situation.

Oh please. The guy has had '5000 failed relationship' that left him 'cynical'.

Said it himself.

Now if I'm a cynical billionaire with a hot new wife...

"Hmm, does she really love me or is she just the 5000th woman who wants my money. Let's take a peek in her brain... Hmm, damn, she likes my money all right. Wait, what the... HOLY ****!"

speaking of which, I don't how care how tough a son-of-a-gun he is. a one eyed general would be given medical discharge from the armed services. and I doubt he would qualify for various paramilitary(like SHIELD) or any other service. and make no mistake, Fury is not simply an admin leader, this guy is always in the field. so just how does he manage to pass the physical every year? (not that I care, but the fingernail crowd should be up in arms about that one)

You are seriously comparing killing a man by ripping your fingernail and flicking it at your target with the might of your thumb to successfully passing your physical when you are one eyed?!

I am more than willing to accept a one eyed general. Or the fact that the two top scientist of the Ultimates in the early days, Banner and Pym, successfully passed their psych evaluation. It's not even in the same category.

 

[innocentboy]

xxx123

 

[E]

and it makes me wonder if we'll be seeing Black Widow regularly as a villain in the Ultimates universe, and Pym too.

I'm pretty sure that Pym will be a double agent. I could see this Widow being killed or imprisoned though, and another version appearing, kind of like 616.

 

[iceman]

a few things:

1. i wonder if the US had been secretly planning to use Pym as a secret weapon with the Ultrons. it seems a little way-too-farfetched.

Fury: "Haha! We won the fight with Ultron! And I planned it all along!"
Cap: "Holy crap, wasn't your arm off?"
Fury: "I SAID I PLANNED IT ALL ALONG, N*GGA!"

2. after reading through page 5:

breaking your teeth out and spitting them at people is just as impossible people. and to E.V.I.L.s rebuttal of my comment: we're not talking about going back in time. There are different levels of absurdity, and we've already seen Hawkeye do more ridiculous things in this comic. It's absolutely impossible, not just incredibly infeasible to shoot arrows as quickly as he did in his first appearance. so, using precedent, hawkeye can do moderately absurd things. you can say its too unrealistic when hawkeye turns back time by running extremely fast.


also: i like UU hawkeye being bullseye. in my opinion the archer arch-type never worked. as hawkeye is a much more important character than UU bullseye, and super-marksmanship is an awesome power, why not give it to hawkeye.

also: i can't wait to see hawkeye kill like 500 guys in a row, before killing Jacque Chirac with his toenails.

 

[E.Vi.L.]

breaking your teeth out and spitting them at people is just as impossible people.

Wasn't the first mention of spitting your teeth at the target in this thread made by me? An argument by the absurd. (If he can rip hi nail and kill someone with it, he might as well spit his teeth).

Never happened and hopefully never willl. In UU anyway.

 

[Jackie Estacado]

Originally Posted by Wamu
speaking of which, I don't how care how tough a son-of-a-gun he is. a one eyed general would be given medical discharge from the armed services. and I doubt he would qualify for various paramilitary(like SHIELD) or any other service. and make no mistake, Fury is not simply an admin leader, this guy is always in the field. so just how does he manage to pass the physical every year? (not that I care, but the fingernail crowd should be up in arms about that one)

look over at 'supreme power' - one armed general type dude there!
also i tend to think that he will get a robotic arm or sumthing....

 

[ShadowPrime]

ALL:

Finally broke down and registered - have enjoyed the discussions here!

Wanted to comment on the upcoming change in artistic teams, after the current story arc closes... and I have to say that while I understand that is how things go "these days" (the days of long runs by writer/artist teams in general is a real thing of the distant past!), this one really hurts. And that is not meant as a knock on the incoming team.

One of the things that made ULTIMATES so special, in my view, is the level of realism and detail in the artwork. More than the vast majority of comic books, ULITMATES gives me the feel that it COULD be taking place in "the real world". Yes, despite shape changing aliens, super soldiers, Norse gods and "death by fingernail flick", the ULTIMATES has a truly cinematic feel. It is, I think, the rare artist who can make characters powerful and interesting when they are OUT of costume. Who can draw a kitchen so that it looks like a REAL kitchen and not a generic "comic book kitchen". Who can capture nuances of facial expression and body language. Who can, in short, present a super hero story in which the heroes, and their WORLD, feels truly real. And I think that this was a HUGE part of what made ULTIMATES special. That is not to shortchange the writing, or to overlook some of the great "special effects" moments in the series... but what I think will be hardest to replace is the grounding the artwork gave the stories.

It isn't a matter of a blanket preference for "realistic" art over more stylized art. I enjoy both - it all depends on context. It is just that, in this case, part of what made ULTIMATES so different from most titles is that it had a "real" feel to it. And I don't see any way the incoming team can possibly capture that, with the sneak peek artwork I have seen. Which means this book will inevitably have a very different fundamental flavor.

Not fair to judge in advance, and I am certainly hoping the "new" ULTIMATES will be a fun and enjoyable read. Just think that the current run is something very special....

Shadow

PS - It will be very interesting to see how this all wraps up. Will the "damage" be left as is, will the Scarlet Witch somehow "repair" much of it, etc? One thing I am hoping does NOT come out of this is a major change of heart in the Captain America character. This sterner, more "soldier like" (and yes, somewhat more hotheaded!) Cap is a breath of fresh air.... obviously, changes are in order, but I hope they don't tinker with "Ultimate Cap" too much.

 

[E]

ALL:

Finally broke down and registered - have enjoyed the discussions here!

Always good to have a lurker deflowered. Welcome.

PS - It will be very interesting to see how this all wraps up. Will the "damage" be left as is, will the Scarlet Witch somehow "repair" much of it, etc? One thing I am hoping does NOT come out of this is a major change of heart in the Captain America character. This sterner, more "soldier like" (and yes, somewhat more hotheaded!) Cap is a breath of fresh air.... obviously, changes are in order, but I hope they don't tinker with "Ultimate Cap" too much.

I have a poll here somewhere asking how disappointed readers would be if this turns out to be "Ultimates Disassembled" and we find out Wanda is behind it all - I'd be interested to see your comments there.

 

[Jackie Estacado]

UltimateE, newby deflower!
Pop your cherry to UltimateE, come one, come all LOL

oh yeah, and Millar better not use Wanda to 'make it all better' - that would be horrible.

 

[ProjectX2]

Is it just me or are we getting a lot of new members here all of a sudden?