Ultimates V2 #9 discussion (SPOILERS!!)

[Random]

What I picture happening next issue, is we see Tony in his predictament and say "Natasha, how could you, how could you pull a omega2172 on me" which will activate a defense system in his room immobilizing her then he runs off and gets into his iron man suit. Sneaky into the ruins of the Triskeleon to finds Wasp unlocking Cap they discus battle plans when they see Thor who tries to convince them to come with him, and flips sayin "I am the god of thiunder, the son of odin... Loki will pay" and as he says it lighting shoots all around, then the "Euro trash" shows up, thus the tides turn.

 

[DIrishB]

That was a terrible analogy DIrishB. Because I was thinkin of the more realistic approach Millar was going for.

I like how you didn't mention any of my other counter-arguments.

My point is that Millar tends to take a less obvious approach to solving his heroes' problems, even if it is "less realistic" or "less likely". He likes to throw a wrench in the cogs, if you will. I really hope its not as simple as Tony just overpowering her. After all, she's got surgical enhancements which made her capable of taking on the Chitauri, Skrulls, etc. Something Tony can't do without his suit. Therefore, in terms of sheer strength, athletics, etc, Black Widow has him beat hands down. It'd just suck if Tony were able to over-power her, especially seeing as how she already has a gun pointed at his head.

I think the most likely avenue is she's kidnapping Tony to finish getting the plans for not only the Iron Man armor, but all the other things he's been working on and hasn't divulged to her (honestly I don't see Tony being the type to come home and explain all his achievements in detail to her). There's a lot she doesn't know which she needs to know, hence us not seeing a bullet go through Tony's head as well in this issue.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

I like how you didn't mention any of my other counter-arguments.

I didn't see any?

You're right about Widow not likely being taken down so easily. I dunno I just don't want to see some lifelike android. They were making sweet sweet love afterall.

 

[ProjectX2]

Or...

Tony knew that Black Widow was a traitor all along. He gave her the armour, which released a set of nanites into her skin. When he says a simple codeword, "Vodka!", she falls unconscious.

"The nanites feel like a second skin..."

And then Tony quickly changes the subject.

 

[Ice]

Or...

Tony knew that Black Widow was a traitor all along. He gave her the armour, which released a set of nanites into her skin. When he says a simple codeword, "Vodka!", she falls unconscious.

"The nanites feel like a second skin..."

And then Tony quickly changes the subject.

That is possible. Nothing new from Tony, and it'd be cool if that happened.

 

[Ultimate Quicksilver]

Or...

Tony knew that Black Widow was a traitor all along. He gave her the armour, which released a set of nanites into her skin. When he says a simple codeword, "Vodka!", she falls unconscious.

"The nanites feel like a second skin..."

And then Tony quickly changes the subject.

She would fall uncounscious every three minutes....

And quickie is always there to save the day :rockon: :rockon: :rockon:

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

AAAAHHHH!!!!!! ITS ALL SO ****ING CRAZY AND I LOVE IT!!!

Honestly, the one thing I didn't like was the Red Skull's Double-Sided Lightsaber.... Seriously what's with that?

But Holy Freaking Jeebus!

The Red Skull is a treacherous US Colonel... or at least is claiming to be... He intrigues me the most so far...

And Loki, although he hasn't done anything major in the book, has definitely done most of the damage here.

But can someone give me a rundown of these other characters?

I'm guessing the Chinese Guy in the robosuit is the Crimson Dynamo...

The russian who stole Thor's Hammer and Weather Controlling devices seems just to be a fake Thor.

The Abomination has been entirely unexplained... Still Russian, or entirely new? Maybe he was the scientist messing with Hawkeye at the beginning?

Who is the Demon Lady?

Who is the Lady with the funny headpiece (whom I'm guessing is a speedster)?

Who is the guy with the X on his chest?

Wow... Well, I'm guessing things are going to be pretty action packed from here until the ending... I'm really hoping Nick Fury shines as a real hero here...

Something tells me that (if its not an alt. Personality of hank), The Red Skull is going to have a lot to do with Nick Fury's Cold War days (which also, incidently, tie in together with Fury and Hawkeye, as well as The Black Widow)

And I refuse to admit that the Colonel is Lieberman, because even if Millar had gone down that path, he wouldn't look so healthy...

I'm thinking Cold War attempt at Captain America that succeeded for the most part...

Something tells me the mask is hiding some deformity.

Oh god, I want the next issue now!!!

Interesting twist I'd like to see... Jarvis levitating the pot -does- make sense, because he's a cybernetic program... Tony Stark's quirky body guard.... who even when shot in the head, could stop Natasha

 

[Vegetable-man]

Am I the only one who see's Pym as the saving grace?
He's the only person who could get Thor and Cap out.... maybe it's time for a little redemption for the Giant-Man....after all, he's had his face in **** sence volume one...... I think it's very possible that he lets them both out of there cages a little double-double cross perhapes............ or maybe just wishfull thinking on my behalf......

Another thought, assuming he has conversed and plotted with the enemy, perhapes he knows a weekness in there masterplan......

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

The Abomination has been entirely unexplained... Still Russian, or entirely new? Maybe he was the scientist messing with Hawkeye at the beginning?

It was explained in the USM game. No one seems to be seeing the connection between him and Green Goblin. Everyone so far has said Hulk + Godzilla. It's so obvious.

And I refuse to admit that the Colonel is Lieberman, because even if Millar had gone down that path, he wouldn't look so healthy...

I'll admit it's not Lieberman too. You're acting like you're in denial though.

Interesting twist I'd like to see... Jarvis levitating the pot -does- make sense, because he's a cybernetic program... Tony Stark's quirky body guard.... who even when shot in the head, could stop Natasha

Definitely was thinking that too. Not the floating pot but I thought a toned down DIrishB's idea and just have Jarvis be a robot would kinda be a good twist and not as over the top as Tony being an android too.

Am I the only one who see's Pym as the saving grace?

NO, I said it in my original post and have been saying it since they talked about Pym's role in the animated movie.

 

[Entropy]

The Red Skull is a treacherous US Colonel... or at least is claiming to be... He intrigues me the most so far...

And Loki, although he hasn't done anything major in the book, has definitely done most of the damage here.

I'm thinking Cold War attempt at Captain America that succeeded for the most part...

Something tells me the mask is hiding some deformity.

Oh god, I want the next issue now!!!

Interesting twist I'd like to see... Jarvis levitating the pot -does- make sense, because he's a cybernetic program... Tony Stark's quirky body guard.... who even when shot in the head, could stop Natasha

I think you might be misreading something, I don't recall it stating that Red Skull was a traitorous US Colonel. In fact, Loki makes reference to Skull getting enjoyment out of the carnage for what America has done to his nation. Still, your idea about him also being a throwback from the cold-war that somehow relates to Fury, Hawkeye and Widow is intriguing. I'm not sure abou the mask hiding deformity, but who knows. I think it was just given to draw more parallels between him and Cap.

The idea of Jarvis being a cybernetic program is interesting. Though, a few questions raise to mind, especially like why blood would be shown from his head when he was shot if he was digital or something. Still, interesting idea.

Am I the only one who see's Pym as the saving grace?
He's the only person who could get Thor and Cap out.... maybe it's time for a little redemption for the Giant-Man....after all, he's had his face in **** sence volume one...... I think it's very possible that he lets them both out of there cages a little double-double cross perhapes............ or maybe just wishfull thinking on my behalf......

Another thought, assuming he has conversed and plotted with the enemy, perhapes he knows a weekness in there masterplan......

Actually, I think alot of us are thinking that Pym might be pulling a double-double cross here. I know I'm willing to believe it. After all the crap that's gone down with him, Hank needs some redeeming and I think Millar is going to give it to him.

 

[Spade]

dont know if anyone already said this but the blonde girl is more than likely the enchantress

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

dont know if anyone already said this but the blonde girl is more than likely the enchantress

There's a blonde chick?

 

[compound]

Am I the only one who see's Pym as the saving grace?

Quite the contrary, actually. I feel like I am the only person who thinks it would be cheesy and horribly out of keeping with the Ultimate version of Hank to do something so honorable and heroic.

The guy is consummatly pathetic. It's his schtick. He's a wife-beating, second-rate also-ran, not a loveable loser. His character doesn't deserve that kind of redemption.

He's not Booster Gold or Ted Kord, folks.

I say, let Pym be the example of the "banality of evil", a phrase that philosopher Hannah Arendt used to describe the ordianary scientists and technicians who guiltlessly took part in the Nazi efforts, not because they were particualrly malevolent, or because they had visionary ideals of Aryan domination, but because they simply regarded it as their job and their livelihood.

 

[Entropy]

dont know if anyone already said this but the blonde girl is more than likely the enchantress

Em, what blonde girl? I don't see one. Anyways, they've already got both Loki and this Anti-Thor (Perun, Vanguard, whoever he is) fighting for them, I don't think they need another Thor foe.

Oh, and I want to declare Ultimate Loki my new favorite villian. The guy does absolutely nothing, yet comes across as WAY more evil and spooky than his 616 counterpart. And any guy who can strike a 21 Jump Street style pose like he's in on the last page and make it look THAT GOOD is too crazy for words.

Quite the contrary, actually. I feel like I am the only person who thinks it would be cheesy and horribly out of keeping with the Ultimate version of Hank to do something so honorable and heroic.

The guy is consummatly pathetic. It's his schtick. He's a wife-beating, second-rate also-ran, not a loveable loser. His character doesn't deserve that kind of redemption.

He's not Booster Gold, folks.

I say, let Pym be the example of the "banality of evil", a phrase that philosopher Hannah Arendt used to describe the ordianary scientists and technicians who guiltlessly took part in the Nazi efforts, not because they were particualrly malevolent, or because they had visionary ideals of Aryan domination, but because they simply regarded it as their job and their livelihood.

See, personally I think that's selling Hank a little short. Or maybe just one-dimensioning a little too much. Yeah, the guys not a loveable loser, he's not even that loveable. What he is, is a rather sad, pathetic, waste of a man. He's got intense emotional and psychological issues, but hell, so do most of the team. Hawkeye was probably the one I would have pegged closest to "normal" (outside the fact he was an ultra-assassin) but that just went to hell.

See, but there is one more aspect of his character that needs to be addressed. Hank is a sad, pathetic, waste of a man who DESPERATELY wants to be a superhero. And on THAT characteristic, I am not only ok with the possibility of his turning out to be a saving grace, I would be suprised to not see it show up in some form.

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

I think you might be misreading something, I don't recall it stating that Red Skull was a traitorous US Colonel. In fact, Loki makes reference to Skull getting enjoyment out of the carnage for what America has done to his nation.

I thought he called Skull "Colonel" at some point... and anyways, I took the "what america has done to your nation" as, what america has done to itself... I need to reread it though... Damnation that was a good issue.

Hrm... Out of all the thousands of billions of things running through my mind right now in regards to this issue, all I have to say is that if Millar ends this arc with all of these villains locked away and everything as a clear-cut victory... I will be extraordinarily disapointed...

Because, Hell... Ultimate America started making Superheroes in the forties... And ladies and gentlemen, they've finally got some real supervillains...

Now, what's the deal with the Slavic God of Thunder? And Who is the blondie?

Back to The Red Skull... I really like the idea of him having the same ideals as Steve Rogers...

And Who else wants some God fight God action.... I know I do... And I think that Thor versus Loki going up with Captain versus the Skull is going to be the apex of this battle...

But we need to see how powerful a thunder god can be when he has no technology to focus, and restrain his full abilities through...

And I've been thinking... is it possible that there are other Asgardians around here? I mean, like background characters.... *cough*Jarvis*cough*

I'm kinda hoping we see Odin soon.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

I disagree with Compound. Pym's clearly been trying and keeps getting shut down. He's a victim of circumstance here and I think all the evidence is in the DVD interviews when they said they didn't have time to show him save face. There's one traitor Pym loves Jan if he knew that the building was gonna come down on her and knew that all of the innocent lives that would be lost I doubt the Widow would've really needed to give that patriotic speech to convince him to join up.

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

The fact that both of you can argue your sides so well simply indicates that there is a purpose behind the Ambiguity of Hank Pym.

It could go either way, and because of that, I'm sure that we're going to see big things from him in this next section.

How many of these new Supervillains do you think Pym designed/created?

And is that girl going to be the Grey Gargoyle?

 

[Entropy]

I thought he called Skull "Colonel" at some point... and anyways, I took the "what america has done to your nation" as, what america has done to itself... I need to reread it though... Damnation that was a good issue.

Loki says specifically "All this carnage must be very satisfying after everything the Americans have done to your country, eh, Colonel?"

Personally, the way it reads to me, the Skull is a foreigner, not defected american. Who knows though.

A funny thing I just thought of. Red Skull is a colonel, therefore he is higher ranked than Captain America. Heh, heh, heh, it's probably funny only to me

Hrm... Out of all the thousands of billions of things running through my mind right now in regards to this issue, all I have to say is that if Millar ends this arc with all of these villains locked away and everything as a clear-cut victory... I will be extraordinarily disapointed...

Because, Hell... Ultimate America started making Superheroes in the forties... And ladies and gentlemen, they've finally got some real supervillains...

Now, what's the deal with the Slavic God of Thunder? And Who is the blondie?

Back to The Red Skull... I really like the idea of him having the same ideals as Steve Rogers...

And Who else wants some God fight God action.... I know I do... And I think that Thor versus Loki going up with Captain versus the Skull is going to be the apex of this battle...

But we need to see how powerful a thunder god can be when he has no technology to focus, and restrain his full abilities through...

And I've been thinking... is it possible that there are other Asgardians around here? I mean, like background characters.... *cough*Jarvis*cough*

I'm kinda hoping we see Odin soon.

I'm pretty sure this isn't going to end nice and dry, clearly cut. This is going to end messy, and things are going to be different. Really different. What I do know for certain though, is that the coming battle is going to be quite possibly some of the best superhero action EVER depicted.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

I'm sorry to be the fanboy but I'm gonna toss it out there.

New York's being attacked and Fantastic Four and The X-Men are taken care of.

Spider-Man, Moon Knight, Daredevil? A reference would be nice. They all probably have their hands full right now.

 

[Entropy]

I'm sorry to be the fanboy but I'm gonna toss it out there.

New York's being attacked and Fantastic Four and The X-Men are taken care of.

Spider-Man, Moon Knight, Daredevil? A reference would be nice. They all probably have their hands full right now.

Heh, I was wondering that myself, I just didn't say anything . Didn't Millar say the conclusion to this was going to involve the entire Ultimate Universe? Considering the force bearing down here, it would have too. Personally I think it would be INCREDIBLY badass if we got a double page splash of all the heroes charging into battle with Cap in the lead. If Hitch threw everything he had into it I would probably geek so hard I'd have a heart attack. Here's hoping.