TheManWithoutFear
#1 reason not to join UC
I really want to see Hitch throwing these guys into the mix. Just like Red Skull saying something like we're meeting resistence in some areas and panels of various heroes fighting off these anti-ultimates.
Ultimates V2 #9 discussion (SPOILERS!!)
- Thread starter MoS
- Start date
Guijllons
Well-Known Member
Ok, we have to consider that the Ultimates is ahead of everything else in the timeline. Unless Spidey is conveniently on holiday at the time of the attack, it has to be mentioned, something has to happen in his book right? Or would that just be really crass and crossoverish?
TheManWithoutFear
#1 reason not to join UC
Guijllons said:
No it wouldn't. I'm not for throwing characters in just for the sake of it. This is a perfectly good reason for these other guys to get involved. I mean Mid-Town High probably has their students under their desks. You think Peter's gotta sit there? Tony heard a boom, what do you think Matt Murdock heard?
compound
Well-Known Member
If Hitch threw everything he had into it, it would be released in 2008Entropy said:
All things considered, he'd probably be writhing on the floor with bleeding eardrums.TheManWithoutFlan said:
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Pandrio
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I agree.TheManWithoutFear said:
Guijllons
Well-Known Member
No, I wasn't suggesting that. I was remarking that it feels a little like a 616 crossover event if other titles are involved. Each story should be self contained and all that. There is no avoiding it I suppose.TheManWithoutFear said:
TheManWithoutFear
#1 reason not to join UC
Guijllons said:
So you think that there should be no sign of this in any other titles or other characters at least hinted at (even though X-Men and Fantastic Four already have been)?
Entropy
Well-Known Member
Guijllons said:
In a story involving an event this massive, I don't think there is a way to avoid the other supers being involved in some way. It just wouldn't make sense for the Ultimates (and possibly the Union) to take them out on their own while the rest do nothing. I don't think this should cross over into other books stories though, at least not right now.
Hey, I just thought, anybody think this is where we're going to see a good deal of the European Captains buy it? We've seen the reserves be pretty much thrashed, makes sense the Union would get it when (or if) they enter the fray. Still, I don't believe Millar would have set them up same as Loki if he didn't intend to use them here.
compound
Well-Known Member
You know what I'd like to see? The Defenders redeeming themselves by actively taking part in the civilian evacuation and relief operations efforts. I'd love to see them just stop being such self-absorbed wanna-be super-heroes, for once, and really lend a hand, to the best of their human abilities. Surely those guys must have some kind of professional skills or training. Let them really live up to their name.
Entropy
Well-Known Member
compound said:
You make a good point and I would like to see that happen as well. You know, I think we've all been SO focused on the traitor (which, now that I think about it, was not that TRULY important to the story, just a McGuffin Millar was leading us by) we've been ignoring ALOT of interesting plot points and possibilites that Millar has been building. I'm glad we finally got the traitor off our chests, so now we can begin to focus on this wider story, which shows signs of being very entertaining.
TheManWithoutFear
#1 reason not to join UC
Damnit!! I was just about to say this. Actually I was thinking more in the lines of all of them taking about 3 hours to take down one of those robots that took Quicksilver seconds.compound said:
And also have them interact with Pym in some way with him leading them or encouraging them into the battle.
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Dr.Strangefate
He Sees You When You're Sleeping. He Knows When Yo
I think the trend of mishaps would be more the opposite, the Defenders want Hank to help, but he thinks they're worthless and backs down...
Then they come around and really shine as heroes.
Then they come around and really shine as heroes.
Hold your horses on Pym being such a pathethic loser.
It's pretty clear that this guy suffers from Manic Depression. Notice the highs and the lows. Sometime he's being insanely creative, almost manic, other time he gets depressed and even violent and these swings occurs quite abruptly.
He has some degree of bipolar disorder. The Prozac we know him to be on (Jan holds a bottle in Ultimates #2) is as a matter of fact one of the medication often prescribed for bipolar disorders.
And bipolar disorder are largely a genetic condition.
So basically, it's not entirely his fault if he is the way he is. And while not all bipolar end up beating their spouse, most spouse of a bipolar do not pick up an argument while their bipolar husband is in a down swing... Not saying Jan deserved to be beaten, but she sure as hell could have picked a better time to have an argument with her husband considering she should know better than most that he was very vulnerable at that particular moment.
So I hope he pulls through as a hero. But even if he doesn't, we are not quite dealing with "The banality of Evil" here. This is a guy who needs support and who has had it pulled from under his feet at the worst possible moment.
It's pretty clear that this guy suffers from Manic Depression. Notice the highs and the lows. Sometime he's being insanely creative, almost manic, other time he gets depressed and even violent and these swings occurs quite abruptly.
He has some degree of bipolar disorder. The Prozac we know him to be on (Jan holds a bottle in Ultimates #2) is as a matter of fact one of the medication often prescribed for bipolar disorders.
And bipolar disorder are largely a genetic condition.
So basically, it's not entirely his fault if he is the way he is. And while not all bipolar end up beating their spouse, most spouse of a bipolar do not pick up an argument while their bipolar husband is in a down swing... Not saying Jan deserved to be beaten, but she sure as hell could have picked a better time to have an argument with her husband considering she should know better than most that he was very vulnerable at that particular moment.
So I hope he pulls through as a hero. But even if he doesn't, we are not quite dealing with "The banality of Evil" here. This is a guy who needs support and who has had it pulled from under his feet at the worst possible moment.
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GOOD GOD!!! :shock:
This is absolutely brilliant. That's all there is to it. The art is beautiful, it's all action...brilliant.
Did you SEE how many of the Greenies and Red Robots there were? And that's only Manhattan? That multiplied by all the other cities and areas attacked...Fury himself said there must have been millions of them pouring out of the Anti-Hellicarriers...or whatever they are. The spread with the Goliaths and the S.H.I.E.L.D. soldiers (are they flying or falling???) being torn apart...I gotta' say, that's horrifying. I know three countries are part of this for sure (Dynamo says China, N. Korea and Russia), but isn't "the Arabs" kind of vague? How many countries are in on this?
I mean, think of the sheer numbers you'd need for all the vehicles, super soldier programs, construction of the robots, etc... It's as if an ENTIRE country's population were attacking with the Anti-Ultimates.
This is absolutely brilliant. That's all there is to it. The art is beautiful, it's all action...brilliant.
Did you SEE how many of the Greenies and Red Robots there were? And that's only Manhattan? That multiplied by all the other cities and areas attacked...Fury himself said there must have been millions of them pouring out of the Anti-Hellicarriers...or whatever they are. The spread with the Goliaths and the S.H.I.E.L.D. soldiers (are they flying or falling???) being torn apart...I gotta' say, that's horrifying. I know three countries are part of this for sure (Dynamo says China, N. Korea and Russia), but isn't "the Arabs" kind of vague? How many countries are in on this?
I mean, think of the sheer numbers you'd need for all the vehicles, super soldier programs, construction of the robots, etc... It's as if an ENTIRE country's population were attacking with the Anti-Ultimates.
compound
Well-Known Member
Very astute observation.E.Vi.L. said:
That was definitely not something I picked up on, intuitively, though. So either I'm slow on the up-take, or the idea was presented more subtly than you believe it to be ("pretty clear").
I'll keep this brief, since this is not the place to debate 'psychological vs. genetic' factors, with regards to mental illness, but suffice it to say that I have first-hand experience with friends who are diagnosed with the condition, clinically, but have (more or less) opted to "own" it, and work through the condition with thearapy, rather than resort to an expensive pharmaceutical treatment, because they firmly believe they are not "genetically hard-wired" that way. They wanted to take responsibility and accountability for their conditon, because they believe it was brought on by social and envieronmental effects on their persoanlity, that they can "unlearn".E.Vi.L. said:
As somebody with no experience in professional psychology, I can't assess how well they're recovering.
As a friend and loved one, I'd say they're dealing with it fairly well.
How is placing superhumans into internment camps -- which, I assume, is what "containment" refers to -- any different from the work of the bureaucrats and administrators who ran the Nazi concentration camps? I honestly want to know. It's knowingly turning a blind eye to something evil on the basis that it's being done, on your part, without malice, as part of some larger institutional plan.E.Vi.L. said:
Dr.Strangefate
He Sees You When You're Sleeping. He Knows When Yo
compound said:
At risk of going off topic, which I dont want to do, I also have a friend who is constantly dealing with his Manic Depression, and even though he's medicated, and in therapy, it's not going all so well for him, and he still has pretty rapid mood swings.
I've found Hank to be a good example of this from the very beginning of the series.
Entropy
Well-Known Member
compound said:
Ah, but you're assuming here. We haven't seen Pym do this yet, or do we even know what the plans are for "containment". Now, yes, if Pym DOES do this and the containment is something a bit more subersive than POW style containment, then I will agree with the banality statement. However, at this point we only have a vague reference as to what Hank's role is supposed to be and we know that in some way Ultron is going to come into play. He hasn't committed to this role yet, and it could well be that being the "containment" is going to put Hank in the prime position to let the home-forces loose.
TheManWithoutFear
#1 reason not to join UC
Entropy said:
Let's put it this way. Ultron is supposed to be a villain. If Hank was bad Ultron wouldn't be highlighted because it would be Hank's operating the robot that would make him evil. Ultimately meaning Hank's the bad guy.
I really hope my Loki - Ultron thing happens. Especially now that we know Loki is in the middle of it.
Pym comes in and turns on Loki. Ultron and Vision II side with Pym. Loki snaps his fingers and Ultron turns into a pyschotic killing machine.
Entropy
Well-Known Member
TheManWithoutFear said:
Ultron is the new x-factor (pardon the pun) in the story, and I think ultimately he is going to decide how things turn out. I personally feel to that Loki is going to be responsible in some way for his turning. Perhaps Ultron is going to be the way some of these Anti-Ultimates buy it and then the Ultimates take Ultron out. Either way, I think Loki has no real alliegence to these people, and he outright says his plans were different from theirs, but combined they would make for something very interesting. Like, they throw America into chaos and then he turns a crazy, nigh indestructible killing machine loose.
compound said:
Well, I wouldn't know the particular case of your firends/family.
What I know is that some mental illness are clearly genetic and others are "all in your head". Bipolar is close to schyzophrenia as a genetic diseases.
Light bipolar disorder can learn in therapy ways to cope with their illness and lessen its impact on their lives. Recognizing you are in a downswing and being able to act accordingly to reduce the effect it has on your life is huge victory for these people.
Heavier case really can't help it. The serotomin and dopamin levels (I'm sure I have slaughtered the spelling) vary just too wildly in their brain for them to function effectively without medication.
It's like being able to control yourself while slightly drunk VS being able to control yourself while high on a cocktail of crack and speed.
I really have no idea how "heavy" is Hank's condition.
We'll see about this. We'll see how he behaves in next issue.
