Was Millar's X-Men Too Over the Top?

The Overlord

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Was I only one who left that Millar's UXM was too over the top sometimes. Take the first issue, where a Sentinel stomps on a mutant kid on live TV, I don't care how much mutants are disliked, there is no way the majority of the American public would approve of an execution of teenager without even a trial or something.
 
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Iceshadow

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Yeah I felt that sometimes Millar was a little over the top, especially in the "more realistic" Ultimate Universe (hell the Blackbird had tractor beams). But it not as out there as his Wolverine run.
 

The Overlord

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Bass said:
Wasn't a problem with black kids a 100 years ago.

Those were lynch mobs, it be hard to link direct responsiblity to the government there. Besides those were usually done in red neck towns anyway, not on national TV. Look at the Nazis, they committed their genocidal campaign in secluded camps, not public squars because they didn't want to create an uproar amongst the public, keep the public ignorant. besides as you noted those lynching happened a hundred years ago, things change. If that was tried today, the government would have the ACLA and other groups in their face so fast it make their head spin. Just because something was acceptable a hundred years ago, does not mean people would embrace it today. 200 years ago slavery was acceptable in many Western countries, that doesn't mean it would be acceptable today.
 
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E

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The Overlord said:
Was I only one who left that Millar's UXM was too over the top sometimes. Take the first issue, where a Sentinel stomps on a mutant kid on live TV, I don't care how much mutants are disliked, there is no way the majority of the American public would approve of an execution of teenager without even a trial or something.

Great question - yes.

Especially in regards to what he did with Ultimates & Ultimates 2. Even when they were out there, it was still realistic (as much as a comic can be anyway).
 

Steve GMan

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Millar was easily my favorite UXM writer, each arc felt like I saw thrown into a summer blockbuster and I loved every minute of it. Concerning that kid's execution, people saw (or see) mutants as something strange and most didn't like it, since in that same issue, Bobby Drake saves dozens from being crushed by a Sentinel, and their thanks is to split his head open with a bottle. Not saying that it would go over well, but I guess sometimes we just need a suspension of disbelief.

Plus, we learn much later (issue 26) that that same kid killed in the first issue staged a one-man attack on the White House (I believe it was the White House, anyway).
 
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The Overlord

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Steve GMan said:
Millar was easily my favorite UXM writer, each arc felt like I saw thrown into a summer blockbuster and I loved every minute of it. Concerning that kid's execution, people saw (or see) mutants as something strange and most didn't like it, since in that same issue, Bobby Drake saves dozens from being crushed by a Sentinel, and their thanks is to split his head open with a bottle. Not saying that it would go over well, but I guess sometimes we just need a suspension of disbelief.

Plus, we learn much later (issue 26) that that same kid killed in the first issue staged a one-man attack on the White House (I believe it was the White House, anyway).

That's unrealstic, Bobby saved their lives and they attack, I doubt that's how people in the real world would react, besides after the horrors of Nazi Germany, you would think people wouldn't trust propaganda that tries to deem an entire race as alien and evil.

By the way it was different kid that attacked the White House, that kid was the one attacked by the red necks and saved by Magneto, first kid was killed the Sentinels.
 

ProjectX2

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He wanted to show how much the mutant community was hated and feared, so much in fact, that they needed giant robot killing machines to destroy them. :D
 

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The Overlord said:
That's unrealstic, Bobby saved their lives and they attack, I doubt that's how people in the real world would react, besides after the horrors of Nazi Germany, you would think people wouldn't trust propaganda that tries to deem an entire race as alien and evil.

I guess I screwed up because I started talking about how the comic world was reacting not ours, since I meant that in their world that the people wouldn't be so outraged at a mutant's death if they're so ready to attack one that saved them.

But I think I can safely say that, in our world, if you hate a certain group, I doubt them saving you would mean much.

The Overlord said:
By the way it was different kid that attacked the White House, that kid was the one attacked by the red necks and saved by Magneto, first kid was killed the Sentinels.

I'm almost positive that they were meant to be the same kid. The look alike, and what would the point in the build-up be for him? I think it was meant to come full-circle with a subtle link back to The Tomorrow People.
 

ProjectX2

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The guy who was crushed by Sentinels was not the same guy as Destructer, as he was a suicide bomber at the Pentagon. :?
 

Steve GMan

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ProjectX2 said:
The guy who was crushed by Sentinels was not the same guy as Destructer, as he was a suicide bomber at the Pentagon. :?

I didn't think he committed suicide, just used his powers on them. Maybe I'm wrong, but I was almost positive it was him.

His name was Detonator... I remember because I thought it was the crappiest piece of crap name ever.
 

The Overlord

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Steve GMan said:
I guess I screwed up because I started talking about how the comic world was reacting not ours, since I meant that in their world that the people wouldn't be so outraged at a mutant's death if they're so ready to attack one that saved them.

But I think I can safely say that, in our world, if you hate a certain group, I doubt them saving you would mean much.



I'm almost positive that they were meant to be the same kid. The look alike, and what would the point in the build-up be for him? I think it was meant to come full-circle with a subtle link back to The Tomorrow People.

No first kid died in the Sentinels attacks, I doubt he survived.

Now in the context of UXM the hatred of mutants may be seen as justified by the public, but I think the context itself is silly and unrealstic and ignores the past 100 years of human social development. After the civil rights movement and the horrors of nazi Germany, I doubt the majority of the public would just start believing that another race is evil and alien. UXM is made the same mistake 616 X-Men made, protraying the hatred of mutants as so oiver the top, that any soical commentary becomes lost and the issue becomes unrealstic and silly.
 

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The Overlord said:
No first kid died in the Sentinels attacks, I doubt he survived.

Yes, but the events in that issue took place long before the attack on him.

The Overlord said:
Now in the context of UXM the hatred of mutants may be seen as justified by the public, but I think the context itself is silly and unrealstic and ignores the past 100 years of human social development. After the civil rights movement and the horrors of nazi Germany, I doubt the majority of the public would just start believing that another race is evil and alien. UXM is made the same mistake 616 X-Men made, protraying the hatred of mutants as so oiver the top, that any soical commentary becomes lost and the issue becomes unrealstic and silly.

I guess, but the point can always be raised that we're talking realism in a book where there are mutants with laser-beam eyes. To be fair though, some things have to be sacrificed in order to make the book work. Maybe it could've worked well without the persecution, but who knows.
 

Iceshadow

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The Sentinals probably wouldn't have seemed so extreme if Millar had shown what the Brotherhood had done to elicit that reaction from the government. When the series first starts all we know is that the Brotherhood are terrorists but we haven't actually seen them do anything yet (not until they bomb Big Ben). If they had bombed a city or something like that then yeah I can see a crowd attacking Iceman, lumping him in with the terrorists. You just have to assume that all kinds of crap has happened to human/mutant realtions before issue #1.
 

Bass

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The Overlord said:
Those were lynch mobs, it be hard to link direct responsiblity to the government there. Besides those were usually done in red neck towns anyway, not on national TV. Look at the Nazis, they committed their genocidal campaign in secluded camps, not public squars because they didn't want to create an uproar amongst the public, keep the public ignorant. besides as you noted those lynching happened a hundred years ago, things change. If that was tried today, the government would have the ACLA and other groups in their face so fast it make their head spin. Just because something was acceptable a hundred years ago, does not mean people would embrace it today. 200 years ago slavery was acceptabler in many Western countries, that doesn't mean it be acceptable today.

You're forgetting that 200 years of integration with another civilisation will breed a bridge between them.

Mutants in UXM#1 are what? 20 years old?

20 years after the first black man was brought over and turned into a slave, if a government official shot him in the head, do you honestly think it would have even made the news?

Here, we have a brand new species that's claiming it's going to replace us and turn us into slaves. And they have terrifying brain melting powers. And they look like us. With the media frenzy concerning terrorism, it is perfectly within the realm of plausability that the scene in UXM #1, while indeed over the top, would be accepted. There may be protests (and there were) but most people would not touch the issue. A kid in England got shot because the police thought he was a terrorist. There was a bit of a tizz for about two weeks, then nothing.
 

The Overlord

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Steve GMan said:
Yes, but the events in that issue took place long before the attack on him.



I guess, but the point can always be raised that we're talking realism in a book where there are mutants with laser-beam eyes. To be fair though, some things have to be sacrificed in order to make the book work. Maybe it could've worked well without the persecution, but who knows.

The persecution is an important factor, but i think it should be protrayed in a realstic way, protrayed the vast majority of the American public as genocidal maniacs is just silly, there should some people who hate mutants, but other people (normal humans) who stand up for mutant rights.
 

The Overlord

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Bass said:
You're forgetting that 200 years of integration with another civilisation will breed a bridge between them.

Mutants in UXM#1 are what? 20 years old?

20 years after the first black man was brought over and turned into a slave, if a government official shot him in the head, do you honestly think it would have even made the news?

Here, we have a brand new species that's claiming it's going to replace us and turn us into slaves. And they have terrifying brain melting powers. And they look like us. With the media frenzy concerning terrorism, it is perfectly within the realm of plausability that the scene in UXM #1, while indeed over the top, would be accepted. There may be protests (and there were) but most people would not touch the issue. A kid in England got shot because the police thought he was a terrorist. There was a bit of a tizz for about two weeks, then nothing.

Yeah, but they but that be argued that the police made a mistake, now say what you will about that excuse, but it sounds better than committing a public execution without a trial, there is no way that they can say that accident in the line duty. I still think the fact it happened on national TV was very the top.

Besides later in the same issue, you had a Sentinel that was willing to destroy a whole bus full of normal humans to kill one mutant. I doubt the American public would be happy with Sentinels having the license to kill as any humans they wanted if it meant one dead mutant, that's over the top.
 

thee great one

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You guys obvious havn't met many people. Humans are the most ingortant, greedy, selfish things to ever exist. Humans are very cowardy.
 

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