Was Millar's X-Men Too Over the Top?

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The Overlord said:
I still say having sentinels stomp on mutants on national tv and destroy buses is too over trhe top and could have been avoided. Any governemnt with a brain would use sleath sentinels to grab mutants when no was looking, that way you ensure there is no criticism.
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That's the thing. They don't use them!
 
Stealth sentinels??? How do you hide a 100ft robot???

You know what---don't bother replying because I'm not gonna waste space with a reply. I'm done with this thread.

What stated off as a simple discussion about a COMIC BOOK has escalated into a real world argument over what people choose to believe and are too ignorant to believe.

I'm closing with this...if you're one of the people who don't believe the govt wouldn't agree to killing civilians in order to achieve their objective---open your eyes. They do it everyday. I know because I've seen it. How many civilians/contractors have been kidnapped and killed in Iraq? How many times have the abductors said they will release the hostage if we pull out and never return? How many times has the govt catered to their demands? None.....there's a mission to be done and casualties are expected on both sides. We all know this and accept it. That doesn't mean we like it.


And to those who know the govt will destroy you to get what you want....congrats. You know the ugly truth. Pretty ain't it.




























































Oh yeah.....
IT'S JUST A COMIC BOOK!!!!!!
 
Oh yeah, because current-day Iraq and USA (with mutants in it) is the exact same thing.

Pardon me for disagreeing.

And pointing out that "it's just a comic book" is belittling to the others on the forum. Seriously, we are all aware, and this is no epiphany that needs to be explained.

This is what it looks like:
"Oh 5h1t, I'm losing the argument, so I'll declare it all pointless."
 
Korinthian said:
How to win an argument:

#1 Repeat what you just said
#2 Repeat again
#3 Repeat with really big letters

Voilà!
Click to expand...

Comic books aren't meant to be taken this seriously. You might as well be arguing how the X gene can cause so many different mutations in people or why a irradiated spider didn't give Peter Parker leukemia instead of spider powers if you want to point out things that don't make sense.

Ice and Von Doom are right... it's just a comic. Friendly discussion on things that seem a little wacky is alright, but people seem to be getting a little worked up.

We should all just take it easy.
 
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I just don't see what people don't get. Sentinels are PROGRAMMED to hunt mutants and not humans. They're not programmed to determine collateral damage or anything. They don't have brains; they're not human. They're not going to go, "No, wait. Human life detected. Let's patiently wait until they evacuate, and then we attack."
 
Let's just hope one of those sentinels without programming determining collateral damage senses a mutant inside a skyscraper, or the white house. That could be messy. WHY didn't the programmers think about the collateral -- WHY?
 
Korinthian said:
Oh yeah, because current-day Iraq and USA (with mutants in it) is the exact same thing.

Pardon me for disagreeing.

And pointing out that "it's just a comic book" is belittling to the others on the forum. Seriously, we are all aware, and this is no epiphany that needs to be explained.

This is what it looks like:
"Oh 5h1t, I'm losing the argument, so I'll declare it all pointless."
Click to expand...
:lol:
The man does have a point.
 
smilie.gif
 
icemastertron said:
I just don't see what people don't get. Sentinels are PROGRAMMED to hunt mutants and not humans. They're not programmed to determine collateral damage or anything. They don't have brains; they're not human. They're not going to go, "No, wait. Human life detected. Let's patiently wait until they evacuate, and then we attack."
Click to expand...
Well I don't know what the Ultimate handbooks are saying, but I'm pretty certain that not ALL Sentinels are designed with little regard for collateral damage.

In fact, some Sentinels have been known to calculate the value of human life against a mutant threat to be apprehended and make judgment calls based on that. There's even a series of die rolls that's supposed to be made in the old Marvel Super Heroes RPG to determine whether or not a Sentinel is willing to endanger humans in apprehending mutants.

And even when they've decided NOT to take actions that could potentially harm humans, they've caused collateral damage due to mutants who've outsmarted them. If Wolverine dodged out of the way of a mega-death beam, that mega-death beam has to stop somewhere which is almost always going to be a wall, automobile or billboard scaffold.

The only real solution to that is to reprogram the Sentinels to be even MORE concerned with human life than they already are. Which could possibly leave them crippled with indecision.

Oh and as for Millar being over the top, that's just par for the course for him.
 
To shack up a somewhat stale discussion. The execution was only one of how many othings that went far over the top. I'll list a few things that pisses me off:
- Fury's Tech-Toys
- The sheer fact that the US have the resources to build Sentinels, but never even consider using them for traditional warfare or anything else.
- The Giant-Robot-Supercomputer felt behind in the savage land.
- The proportions of Magneto's verious bases.

But then I also loathed the X-Men movies because of the underground architecture, which looked like Xavier had spent millions alone for the design. I've seen high-tech basement facilities in some of the universities I've been, and they are cramped with vents and all kinds of tubes and cables, and there are lots of machinery and stowage spaces and lockers and shelfs everywhere. Something more along these lines would have brought the set to life, I think, instead of these long, empty corridors that don't make any sense in themselves.
 
The Overlord said:
People on this board say that the Ultimate Universe, is supposed to be way more relastic than 616 MU, but in this case I say the hatred of mutants is just as over the top, if not more so in the Ultimate Universe.
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But we don't have super-powered people running around blowing up national monuments, invading the White House or setting up nuclear meltdowns, so we can't really say for sure. We also know the tendency of bad news to spread faster than the good. The X-Men were pretty much under the radar during the first arc, and all people see is the mass destruction caused by the Brotherhood.
 
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Everything of Millar's is over the top, honestly. Yes, this isn't the real world because you'll (hopefully) never run into a guy that can blow your head off with a laser-eyebeam or pop metal claws from his fists or anything in the real world. But I was under the impression that the Ultimate Universe was supposed to be more realistic. And if that was their goal, Millar destroyed it from the beginning. The technology, the way the government is portrayed, even how Magneto is able to assemble hundreds or thousands of mutants to his cause, in my mind, all unrealistic. I mean honestly, you're on a planet of nearly 8 billion people. Forget Sentinels, if you pissed regular people off enough, they could have loaded up a few nukes on a plane and turned the Savage Land into a giant crater. It just seemed like they were trying too hard to bring the mentality of the 60s and 70s into the present day, coupled with Millar's tendency to try and push his audience as far as possible to see what he can get away with.


cmdrjanjalani said:
But we don't have super-powered people running around blowing up national monuments, invading the White House or setting up nuclear meltdowns, so we can't really say for sure. We also know the tendency of bad news to spread faster than the good. The X-Men were pretty much under the radar during the first arc, and all people see is the mass destruction caused by the Brotherhood.
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So if say... a few Irish-American citizens blew up something, the public would be okay with the government saying, "The Irish are out to get us, so we're going to kill all the Irish in America before they can hurt you"?
 
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jtg3885 said:
Everything of Millar's is over the top, honestly. Yes, this isn't the real world because you'll (hopefully) never run into a guy that can blow your head off with a laser-eyebeam or pop metal claws from his fists or anything in the real world. But I was under the impression that the Ultimate Universe was supposed to be more realistic. And if that was their goal, Millar destroyed it from the beginning. The technology, the way the government is portrayed, even how Magneto is able to assemble hundreds or thousands of mutants to his cause, in my mind, all unrealistic. I mean honestly, you're on a planet of nearly 8 billion people. Forget Sentinels, if you pissed regular people off enough, they could have loaded up a few nukes on a plane and turned the Savage Land into a giant crater. It just seemed like they were trying too hard to bring the mentality of the 60s and 70s into the present day, coupled with Millar's tendency to try and push his audience as far as possible to see what he can get away with.
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They should have that missle called, Sentinel
 
Millar wouldn't know the meaning of the word 'subtle' unless it smacked him in the head... er, I mean, tapped him gently on the shoulder.
 
jtg3885 said:
Everything of Millar's is over the top, honestly. Yes, this isn't the real world because you'll (hopefully) never run into a guy that can blow your head off with a laser-eyebeam or pop metal claws from his fists or anything in the real world. But I was under the impression that the Ultimate Universe was supposed to be more realistic. And if that was their goal, Millar destroyed it from the beginning. The technology, the way the government is portrayed, even how Magneto is able to assemble hundreds or thousands of mutants to his cause, in my mind, all unrealistic. I mean honestly, you're on a planet of nearly 8 billion people. Forget Sentinels, if you pissed regular people off enough, they could have loaded up a few nukes on a plane and turned the Savage Land into a giant crater. It just seemed like they were trying too hard to bring the mentality of the 60s and 70s into the present day, coupled with Millar's tendency to try and push his audience as far as possible to see what he can get away with.



So if say... a few Irish-American citizens blew up something, the public would be okay with the government saying, "The Irish are out to get us, so we're going to kill all the Irish in America before they can hurt you"?
Click to expand...

No, because we all know that Irish-Americans are just regular human beings who just happened to have weapons. For mutants, it's a different case because they are living weapons by themselves. Add a case about genetic mutation being linked to violent behavior (which I believe was an anti-mutant study brought up during early UXM) and the possibility of people being born that can potentially cause mass destruction and genocide by themselves, and you've got fodder for government propaganda against all mutants.

Also like I said the only well known organization of mutants during that time was the Brotherhood. The X-Men were only known by little since the X-Men themselves were hiding from Sentinels and they were still busy recruiting members. That is why they only halted the Sentinel project after the X-Men began doing heroics such as rescuing the President's daughter. The Ultimates became the more humane response towards superhuman and mutant threats, after the X-Men were able to gain public sympathy through their actions.

This is more similar in the lines of the how Americans saw the Japanese back in World War II, and how Americans perceived Iraq before they found out that there were no weapons of mass destruction. Majority supported it because they so the greater good, not realizing the depressing collateral damage and inhumanity it would cause, such as the poor kid who gets stepped on by a Sentinel back in the first UXM, or the thousands of innocent lives that were killed in Hiroshima and Iraq.

You have to realize that mutants showed up only recently in the Ultimate Universe in full force, and most people have no idea what they are really like except for what they see in the news. This is different from terrorist groups such as the Al Qaeda, since we already know from previous knowledge that Muslims do not normally behave that way. During the Brotherhood's reign of terror, the public is still forming their image about mutants, and Magneto's actions only worsened their reputation.
 
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cmdrjanjalani said:
This is different from terrorist groups such as the Al Qaeda, since we already know from previous knowledge that Muslims do not normally behave that way.
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Uh, we are talking about the people who fly planes into airplanes, offer $1 million dollar bounties to kill cartoonists, and cause massive riots over cartoons that result in property destruction and senseless loss of life, right? And don't give me the religion bull****. You don't see Christians of any denomination or degree of zealousness rioting because companies print shirts that say things like "Jesus Is A Homo" or "If Jesus comes back, we'll kill him again!"

Now that I'm thinking about it, I'm glad that we don't have Sentinel technology or there'd be Muslim-shaped splat marks all over the Middle East right now and I doubt the American public would be too pissed about it.
 
Uh, we are talking about the people who fly planes into airplanes, offer $1 million dollar bounties to kill cartoonists, and cause massive riots over cartoons that result in property destruction and senseless loss of life, right? And don't give me the religion bull****. You don't see Christians of any denomination or degree of zealousness rioting because companies print shirts that say things like "Jesus Is A Homo" or "If Jesus comes back, we'll kill him again!"

Now that I'm thinking about it, I'm glad that we don't have Sentinel technology or there'd be Muslim-shaped splat marks all over the Middle East right now and I doubt the American public would be too pissed about it.
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HA!!! SO TRUE!
 
And don't give me the religion bull****. You don't see Christians of any denomination or degree of zealousness rioting because companies print shirts that say things like "Jesus Is A Homo" or "If Jesus comes back, we'll kill him again!"
Click to expand...

No, it's the christians that try to redefine the meaning of science.

Christianity is no better or worse than Islam.
 
Korinthian said:
No, it's the christians that try to redefine the meaning of science.
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Wow, you're reaching.

Stay on topic.
 
Korinthian said:
No, it's the christians that try to redefine the meaning of science.

Christianity is no better or worse than Islam.
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At least we know how to make airplanes avoid giant office towers.
 
Just noticed I put 'fly planes into airplanes'. That's it. No more arguing when half-asleep.

I'm half surprised I don't have someone up my butt over that one...

But yeah, if we haven't wiped out half the Middle East by now, I doubt America would support mass mutant extermination.
 

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