Was Millar's X-Men Too Over the Top?

[Ice]

In the first issue a Sentinel tried to blow up a bus full of normal humans just to kill one mutant, who in their right mind would spprove of Sentinels killing a bunch of humans just to get one mutant?

The government does whatever they can do get what they want. Remember New Mutants arc? If they get a minimal calloratol damage, they don't care.

 

[Victor Von Doom]

In the first issue a Sentinel tried to blow up a bus full of normal humans just to kill one mutant, who in their right mind would spprove of Sentinels killing a bunch of humans just to get one mutant?

Do you understand what collateral damage is? It's accepting a certain extent of friendly damage in order to achieve the main goal.

Who in their right mind would approve it? Almost every single leader in history has approved it.

 

[The Overlord]

The government does whatever they can do get what they want. Remember New Mutants arc? If they get a minimal calloratol damage, they don't care.

The public would care though, in today's society if the government blew up a bus full of innocent people to kill one terrorist, the public would be howling for their heads. That's what is silly and over the top, the government should be using more discretion than that.

 

[The Overlord]

Do you understand what collateral damage is? It's accepting a certain extent of friendly damage in order to achieve the main goal.

Who in their right mind would approve it? Almost every single leader in history has approved it.

Double post.

 

[The Overlord]

Do you understand what collateral damage is? It's accepting a certain extent of friendly damage in order to achieve the main goal.

Who in their right mind would approve it? Almost every single leader in history has approved it.

The public would accept collateral damage in far away countries like Iraq, not on American soil. Its just the government would not be using more discretion and that the public would allow such actions to take place, wouldn't people be worried about becomming collateral damage? Would people really suppport that kind of opinion: "Gee, my wife is dead, but that's okay because that mutie died as well."

 

[Ice]

The public would accept collateral damage in far away countries like Iraq, not on American soil. Its just the government would not be using more discretion and that the public would allow such actions to take place, wouldn't people be worried about becomming collateral damage?

The governmetn doesn't really give much of damn what the public thinks.

 

[The Overlord]

The governmetn doesn't really give much of damn what the public thinks.

Read Machiavelli, no government can rule without some sort of public support, I didn't read the New Mutants arc, but there still elections right? Even if there are elections killing off random members of the public is a good way to start to coup. Its totally silly and unrealstic that government wouldn't just use more discretion and avoid unnecessary public deaths.

 

[moonmaster]

Here's the difference between Mutants and real-life minority groups that are discriminated against: Black people don't have laser eyes. Its as simple as that. If black people had had laser eyes, then the goverment would have squashed the Civil Rights Movement in the most violent, complete, and possibly public way possible. They would not just be feared in that "they're different so I don't understand" way, they'd be feared in the "OH MY GOD, THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO BLOW MY FREAKING HEAD OFF" way. Mutants are the most dangerous minority group that the world has ever seen and it makes perfect sense that America and and the entire world would be happy to see them destroyed on live tv.

 

[The Overlord]

Here's the difference between Mutants and real-life minority groups that are discriminated against: Black people don't have laser eyes. Its as simple as that. If black people had had laser eyes, then the goverment would have squashed the Civil Rights Movement in the most violent, complete, and possibly public way possible. They would not just be feared in that "they're different so I don't understand" way, they'd be feared in the "OH MY GOD, THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO BLOW MY FREAKING HEAD OFF" way. Mutants are the most dangerous minority group that the world has ever seen and it makes perfect sense that America and and the entire world would be happy to see them destroyed on live tv.

So because they are afriad of mutants killing them, the public is willin to allow Sentinels to blow up buses? That doesn't add up.

 

[ProjectX2]

So because they are afriad of mutants killing them, the public is willin to allow Sentinels to blow up buses? That doesn't add up.

Sacrifices have to be made.

 

[moonmaster]

So because they are afriad of mutants killing them, the public is willin to allow Sentinels to blow up buses? That doesn't add up.

I'm not replying to the collateral damage arguement, I'm responding to the arguement that the public wouldn't let mutants be killed. I probably should have quoted one of the earlier posts...

 

[The Overlord]

Sacrifices have to be made.

No American public offical in their right mind would think it a good idea to slaugther members of the members of the US public just to get at a few mutants, that defies all logic.

 

[Ice]

No American public offical in their right mind would think it a good idea to slaugther members of the members of the US public just to get at a few mutants, that defies all logic.

You must not really know the government much. They do whatever they think they must to complete their goal.

 

[ProjectX2]

No American public offical in their right mind would think it a good idea to slaugther members of the members of the US public just to get at a few mutants, that defies all logic.

Well, in Bendis' New Mutants arc, they were prepared to kill an entire crowd of humans just to annihilate four mutants.

 

[The Overlord]

You must not really know the government much. They do whatever they think they must to complete their goal.

You never read Machiavelli did you, if a government wants to maintain power they should engage in actions that wopuld cxause those theyh rule to to hate them. Governemnts should promote fear or love amongst those rule, never hatred. Engaging in the kind of ransomized violence, such as Sentinels blowing up buses, is not a good way to keep power.

 

[Steve GMan]

Well, in Bendis' New Mutants arc, they were prepared to kill an entire crowd of humans just to annihilate four mutants.

His argument is that, in our world, people wouldn't put up with that.

I looked back at the first issue. The Sentinel is empyting it out (or maybe the people are just frantically running out on their own will), but in any case, when the bus was being destroyed, no human was on it.

 

[ProjectX2]

His argument is that, in our world, people wouldn't put up with that.

I looked back at the first issue. The Sentinel is empyting it out (or maybe the people are just frantically running out on their own will), but in any case, when the bus was being destroyed, no human was on it.

So this is going to boil down to another, "Is the Ultimate Universe realistic?"

Because the answer is no. Some of it is, but then again, these are comics. You're not going to see giant men and laser-eyed humans running around in the real world either.

 

[Ice]

His argument is that, in our world, people wouldn't put up with that.

And yet, the comic isn't our world. There's no mutants running with powers and what not.

 

[The Overlord]

Well, in Bendis' New Mutants arc, they were prepared to kill an entire crowd of humans just to annihilate four mutants.

Again that's just silly, any sort of government that wouldn't want to be overthrown would use more discretion.

 

[Korinthian]

Discretion hopefully not involving 20 metre robots.

 

[Steve GMan]

And yet, the comic isn't our world. There's no mutants running with powers and what not.

Yeah, that's what I think that you can't really say if it's realistic or not. We'd never really know how the public or government would react since we have no basis against fighting supermen.

And, even if the Sentinels did destroy that bus, there would be countless was for the government to misconstrue the information. They could say that everyone on it were mutants, that the mutant killed the beforehand, etc. If the Sentinel did destroy it, they have some lie to back it up.

 

[The Overlord]

And yet, the comic isn't our world. There's no mutants running with powers and what not.

I still say having sentinels stomp on mutants on national tv and destroy buses is too over trhe top and could have been avoided. Any governemnt with a brain would use sleath sentinels to grab mutants when no was looking, that way you ensure there is no criticism.

 

[The Overlord]

Yeah, that's what I think that you can't really say if it's realistic or not. We'd never really know how the public or government would react since we have no basis against fighting supermen.

And, even if the Sentinels did destroy that bus, there would be countless was for the government to misconstrue the information. They could say that everyone on it were mutants, that the mutant killed the beforehand, etc. If the Sentinel did destroy it, they have some lie to back it up.

I doubt the majority of the public would buy such a line, without proof to back it up. We live in the post Watergate world, this isn't the 50s when everyone thought the government was always right.

 

[Korinthian]

"My mom [who was on the bus] was a mutant? Okay then, I won't sue."

Doesn't sound like the USA I know.

 

[Steve GMan]

I still say having sentinels stomp on mutants on national tv and destroy buses is too over trhe top and could have been avoided. Any governemnt with a brain would use sleath sentinels to grab mutants when no was looking, that way you ensure there is no criticism.

The government is worried and wants to take out as many of these things as possible. Perhaps large machines of war were quicker to build than smaller stealthier ones.

I doubt the majority of the public would buy such a line, without prrof to back it up.

If they truly want to believe that the mutant threat is being quelled, then yes they would.

 

[Steve GMan]

"My mom [who was on the bus] was a mutant? Okay then, I won't sue."

Doesn't sound like the USA I know.

I'm sure Sentinels killed at least one mutant who was a mother. I never heard about anyone suing, althought maybe they would or should.

 

[The Overlord]

The government is worried and wants to take out as many of these things as possible. Perhaps large machines of war were quicker to build than smaller stealthier ones.



If they truly want to believe that the mutant threat is being quelled, then yes they would.

So some guy loses his wife, but is still happy that some mutant died as well? I doubt that. Seriously who is the genius that decided to make those damn things 60 feet tall, making smaller sentinels would be cheaper and would cause less deaths amongst normal humans.

 

[The Overlord]

His argument is that, in our world, people wouldn't put up with that.

I looked back at the first issue. The Sentinel is empyting it out (or maybe the people are just frantically running out on their own will), but in any case, when the bus was being destroyed, no human was on it.

Seemed to me that people were running out on their own while the Sentinel was blowing up the bus.

 

[Steve GMan]

Seemed to me that people were running out on their own while the Sentinel was blowing up the bus.

In any case, it wasn't directly putting any human at risk when he started to destroy the bus. Had no one gotten out, maybe it would've ripped the top off and pulled Iceman out. We don't know, but since we're talking about a comic with giant robots and a world of mutants, then I guess we should just suspend our disbelief.

 

[The Overlord]

In any case, it wasn't directly putting any human at risk when he started to destroy the bus. Had no one gotten out, maybe it would've ripped the top off and pulled Iceman out. We don't know, but since we're talking about a comic with giant robots and a world of mutants, then I guess we should just suspend our disbelief.

People on this board say that the Ultimate Universe, is supposed to be way more relastic than 616 MU, but in this case I say the hatred of mutants is just as over the top, if not more so in the Ultimate Universe.