Was Millar's X-Men Too Over the Top?

[McCheese]

Guess what boys and girls? Comments like this get you banned! Say bye to jtg for a week.

He Gone!

 

[Goodwill]

I'm actually pretty offended... Any chance J can get kicked off for good? I mean, GMaster is gone for calling someone a name but JTG's arrogance has once again offended many people. What's the basis?

 

[Ice]

I'm actually pretty offended... Any chance J can get kicked off for good? I mean, GMaster is gone for calling someone a name but JTG's arrogance has once again offended many people. What's the basis?

GMaster was first banned for 2 Days for the name calling, not permanent. But he couldn't handle it and started to create multiple accounts, in which also had very unpleasant names, so that is why he has permanent banishment. As for JTG, the matter is still being dealt with.

So now let's get back to the topic of the thread.

 

[Korinthian]

(Not) speaking of "over the top", does anyone know what boundaries (if any) were set for the writers by Marvel?

"Make it more realistic" is pretty broad, after all.

 

[Goodwill]

Fair enough...

To kick start this bad boy, I'll throw in another two bits.

Millar is all for blockbuster hits... Even at the expence of such important things as characterization and reality. The Ultimate Universe was founded on the idea that the famous (and infamous) Marvel characters could live and interact in modern societ just as they did in the 1960's. The Ultimate Universe was also founded on the idea that character's had opportunity in this universe. The UU was a fresh start... But with Millar, I'm not so sure about that. For the whole concept, Millar wrote pretty 616 plots for the Ultimate X-Men, not saying I didn't enjoy them. He was off the wall and, in many cases, further out of reality than 616 had ever gone. I mean a machine that had every single mutant power in its very body? Characters showing up to remove bombs implanted in other characters heads to wrap up an arc? Yeah, he stretched everything too thing in my opinion... I don't really like his writing, although it is enjoyable when he doesn't show off how stupid some of his ideas can be (Most recently in UFF with the Johnny/Moonshine deal). Also, I don't like how he interprets American politics... Sometimes he can be scathing and annoying about it.

 

[Ice]

Well, how the hell could this get any more realistic? Any more and this is will turn out to be nothing but actual real life! That's how you guys are putting it to be. Yes, realism is being thrown in the mix, but realism can only go so far, ESPECIALLY in a comic book!

 

[Goodwill]

Yes, I understand that this is a comic and there will be a point where reality needs to be altered in order to make it more appealing in a comic book. That's why we gave Peter Parker the ability to shoot webs and scale walls after being bitten by a radioactive spider. That's why there are mutants in the first place... No offense, but I hardly think anyone would want to read a title a band of homosexuals literally fighting for their rights. Not if they can't fly or shoot lasers out of their eyes, anyway. The problem with Millar, though, is that there is no grey area - there's either the heavy politics (Observe the Ultimates and even what he'll be writing in Civil War) and then there's off the wall, dumbed down ideas that litter what we consider now as a smart comic. Warren Ellis had a scientific explanation for the Fantastic Four and even the N-Zone, but Millar on the other hand does these peculiar things without any real thought and leaves it... A time machine now, huh? Why couldn't Beast have thought about that? Perhaps he could've saved himself the embarassment of letting the Brotherhood know Magneto was still kicking. Perhaps Xavier WILL use the time machine and get his ability to walk back. Nice.

 

[ProjectX2]

Religion is an evil topic, boys and girls.

Now, the only way you could get a realistic comic is if it was something like Law and Order or a show like that.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

Law & Order isn't even "realistic"

 

[Ice]

Law & Order isn't even "realistic"

I dont know how it isnt...

 

[McCheese]

Law & Order isn't even "realistic"

No you're thinking of CSI.

 

[ProjectX2]

Law & Order isn't even "realistic"

I was generalizing, but you get what I mean.

 

[The Overlord]

Well, how the hell could this get any more realistic? Any more and this is will turn out to be nothing but actual real life! That's how you guys are putting it to be. Yes, realism is being thrown in the mix, but realism can only go so far, ESPECIALLY in a comic book!

Comics should be governed by internal logic, regardless of SoD. Cyclops using optic beams is covered under SoD, everyone in the Ultimate Universe acting completely stupid is not. To have a realstic universe, the public should have realstic reactions to these fantastic stituations, rather then acting like idiotic sterotypes.

 

[Random]

What I don't like is that the FF have a time machine, and its not a big deal to them. THEY CAN TRAVEL THROUGH TIME. That is one of the greatest scienctific accomplishments and its nothing to them. And everything should have a reasonable explanation, even if you come up with the craziest thing their needs to be a reasonable explanation, or don't do it. I 'm mean a robot whose can do anything Reed thinks? That's just insane. I just wished they'd think things through.

 

[Doc Comic]

It is as if I heard a million skotti fanboys suddenly cry out in terror...and then were suddenly silenced.

 

[The Overlord]

What I don't like is that the FF have a time machine, and its not a big deal to them. THEY CAN TRAVEL THROUGH TIME. That is one of the greatest scienctific accomplishments and its nothing to them. And everything should have a reasonable explanation, even if you come up with the craziest thing their needs to be a reasonable explanation, or don't do it. I 'm mean a robot whose can do anything Reed thinks? That's just insane. I just wished they'd think things through.

Time travel almost always causes problems if not handled well, storywise.

 

[Ice]

None of that has to do with Ultimate X-Men.

 

[Ice]

I don't say things to get ignored. Again, this is for Millar and Ultimate X-MEN.

You want to talk about what he does with UFF, take that to where it really belongs.

 

[ourchair]

Also, I don't like how he interprets American politics... Sometimes he can be scathing and annoying about it.

I think the problem isn't that Millar intends to be scathingly critical or sound harsh at all when he injects politics into his comics. The problem is that Millar writes almost ALL his characters with such a blunt over-the-top voice that has no subtlety and as such, its easy to confuse the tone of his characters with his own personal tone.

I think Frank Miller is far worse when he's the one trying to get all socio-political commentary on your ***.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

Millar's political views are perfect.

 

[Goodwill]

I think the problem isn't that Millar intends to be scathingly critical or sound harsh at all when he injects politics into his comics. The problem is that Millar writes almost ALL his characters with such a blunt over-the-top voice that has no subtlety and as such, its easy to confuse the tone of his characters with his own personal tone.

I think Frank Miller is far worse when he's the one trying to get all socio-political commentary on your ***.

I think you're absolutely right.

 

[iceman]

the only thing that was over the top was the dialogue.

 

[jtg3885]

Millar's political views are perfect.

Mehh. I hear liberal ranting about Bush's policies all the time. I don't need to read about it when I pick up a comic.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

Mehh. I hear liberal ranting about Bush's policies all the time. I don't need to read about it when I pick up a comic.

I don't read anything Millar has written taking a shot at Bush.

 

[Effect]

Was Millar's X-men too over the top?

Most certainly yes. I feel that Ultimate X-men's first arc is the reason why I couldn't and still can't get into Ultimate X-men. I understand trying to get across just how much mutants were feared and hated but the presentation was bad I felt. It was so overtop that it simply became silly and totally unbelieveable. Yes I know this is a comic but you need a certain amount of believeablity in a story unless it's high magic fantasy or a cartoon. The whole story just left a serious bad taste in my mouth. This situation and the whole Logan/Jean sleeping together. It just served to make her come off as seriously skanky and slutty. As a 616 Jean fan it just really turned me off to the characters completely with how it was presented.

Perhaps if Millar's first two arcs didn't have this really choppy feeling to it in it's story progression things might have felt better. There was no build up to these characters. I was given no reason at all as for why I should care about them. It's as if he was expecting the fans like of their 616 versions to fill that void but their actions weren't too appealing. I was more frustrated and annoyed by the entire thing.

Scott: We see him looking at Jean and Logan kissing. We are suppose to know he could be jealous but why should we care?

Jean: Has no trouble jumping into bed with Logan after one kiss. Then she gets angry when he tells her he was going to kill Xavier but isn't now. Sure she gets made but is that even really the main focus or is that she is pretty much a **** (I feel this image of her has pretty much ruined my opinion of the Ultiamte version of the character has really be a big problem for me, combined with the skankish apperance I feel she had and most likely still does since I haven't read any recent issues). Yet tries to be morally right by being angry that he was going to kill Prof. X and wanting nothing to do with him every again. The whole thing was a WTF? situation, not in a good way.

There was no flow to those arcs. Things just jumped around I felt. To much trying to be done, to many characters attempting to be used that seemed like they were there just for the sake of being there.

First impressions are everything they say. Ultimate Spider-man and Ultimate Fantastic Four gave great first impressions I felt. You were introduced to the cast, they were developed and then eased into fighting. Ultimate X-men just seem to throw you into the deep end of the pool for no real reason. Did Millar think that people wouldn't be interested in the title or story if he didn't start right away with the killing, sex, big explosions. It's almost as if it was writen around those three things instead of them just being apart of a story.

 

[jeremiahvedder]

Some girls **** on the first date.

I, personally, don't see a real big problem with that.

 

[Effect]

Some girls **** on the first date.

I, personally, don't see a real big problem with that.

That wasn't even a first date but a random meeting with a stranger.

 

[jtg3885]

I don't read anything Millar has written taking a shot at Bush.

You mean you don't read the Ultimates?

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

You mean you don't read the Ultimates?

Ultimates has nothing to do with George Bush.

 

[Captain Morgan]

The kid being excecuted was indeed Detonator, who had been involved on an attack on the white house. I think that Millar's run, while over the top, was cool. Nothing to make me hate it.