What would make you more satisfied? (Ultimates #10 Cover Spoilers)

[Guijllons]

No that's just the assumption everyone has because they fail to realize this is set in contemporary times and in a comic not during the cold war era.

Yeah, I know. I was just, y'know.. taking the mickey. I can't see the bad guys to be 'foreigners' as such.

 

[14rdb]

Yeah, I know. I was just, y'know.. taking the mickey. I can't see the bad guys to be 'foreigners' as such.

Why not? One of Millar's big themes has been a superhuman arms race and other nations getting nervous about the United States' heavy-handed use of the Ultimates.

 

[Guijllons]

Why not? One of Millar's big themes has been a superhuman arms race and other nations getting nervous about the United States heavy-handed use of the Ultimates.

Another theme is that America is its own worst enemy.

 

[14rdb]

Another theme is that America is its own worst enemy.

And a good way to accomplish that is to have their prior actions result in the formation of a foreign threat that wouldn't have existed except for the actions of the Ultimates. How about a preemptive strike against them?

Potential minor spoilers...

The characters on the cover for #10 almost certainly exist in the book. It's not just a symbolic image. On Millar's board the mods and Liefeld commented about all the new characters shown on the final page of #9. I'm almost certain they are talking about the same characters shown on the cover.

Now does that guarantee they are a foreign group? No, but it seems like a good possibility, and no lamer than the alternative. Actually less so if handled correctly.

 

[Guijllons]

And a good way to accomplish that is to have their prior actions result in the formation of a foreign threat that wouldn't have existed except for the actions of the Ultimates. How about a preemptive strike against them?

But who? China? Iraq? Iran? Korea? I don't think simulating an attack from a specific power is something that Millar (as liberal as they come) would wish to write.

Edit: Though I'd find some pleasure that it being Saudi Arabia.

 

[14rdb]

But who? China? Iraq? Iran? Korea? I don't think simulating an attack from a specific power is something that Millar (as liberal as they come) would wish to write.

Well, I'm not sure the anti-ultimate group has to be state-sponsored (at least publicly. However, S.H.I.E.L.D. might interpret it as such and strike back at the perceived backers).

If that's what you were referring to the whole time by 'foreign,' then I misunderstood.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

Why can't it be Latveria? If it's any other country, it makes just as much sense. Only Latveria is a country we can use without stepping on anyones toes. The country is only going to be named once in the comic anyway.

 

[fireproof]

Personally, I'd rather see it include other characters. I'd hate if it meant exclusively Ultimates readers are left out of the loop, so I'd like to see it self-contaned plot-wise (ie. even if cap was really mystique, and which i doubt, have her introduced in a way that she becomes an ultimates villain as well as her role in x-men), but I would like to see some other characters.

Not because I like Spider-man or so Wolverine is officially in every series ever written, but because it might mean a huge shake-up of the ultimates. Maybe hawkeye is dead or incapacitated, maybe cap has been a bad guy all along, or one of the other ultimates is the traitor. With thor imprisoned, hulk on some island somewhere, and giant man off the team, that leaves Iron Man + Black Widow, the wasp, and Wanda and Pietro. If some big attack comes they'll need all the help they can get.

If there are no other superheroes, that tells me cap is good, and there is no traitor (unless its one of the weaker members of the team), thor is coming back, and hawkeye is fine. I'm OK with that, as long as we don't go back to the status quo and pretend the last few issues never happened.

I seem to be the only one here who feels this way, but I think The Ultimates is in need of a shake-up. I'm tired of seeing them fight themselves. In 20 issues they've only had one fight that wasn't against a team member, iirc. I'd be glad to see some of them switch sides, a couple more die or quit, and the rest have to have their sorry selves saved by some "less official" superheroes.

However, if it's well written I'll be happy either way. I guess you don't need character changes to fix a story if you have good writing.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

I'm really surprised at the results so far.

 

[Guijllons]

Well, I'm not sure the anti-ultimate group has to be state-sponsored (at least publicly. However, S.H.I.E.L.D. might interpret it as such and strike back at the perceived backers).

If that's what you were referring to the whole time by 'foreign,' then I misunderstood.

I was talking about a specific nation. A group that is 'anti-ultimates' doesn't necessarily have to be from another country, in fact, why identify them as foreign if they're not identified with one? It implies that the whole world is against the USA. I mentioned that I thought it was HYDRA some while ago, though for reasons unnecessary to this conversation, and I think having a force that has no specific base is far more worrying. Not even a specific region. But whatever it is, I'm sure it has to be of direct American instigation.

 

[Guijllons]

I seem to be the only one here who feels this way, but I think The Ultimates is in need of a shake-up. I'm tired of seeing them fight themselves.

I think that is one of the points that Millar is trying to get across. But I do tend to agree, and those that are running things will be new characters, though I do not believe that they are totally disassociated with the Ultimates.

I'm really surprised at the results so far.

You and me both. People really do want to see the X-men dive in for a big wham bam crossover issue.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

You and me both. People really do want to see the X-men dive in for a big wham bam crossover issue.

:x


Anyway, I don't want to see the X-Men involved. It's kind've out of left field that they show up. This isn't a mutant related incident. I want to see a subtle mention that the Latverian Government is the one behind underground attacks on SHIELD only because they're building a clone of The Ultimates as said in USM. And on that note I don't want to see Spider-Man involved either. Just because it was a concept created in USM doesn't mean he can't be elsewhere when the major plan hits the real target.

 

[Guijllons]

:x


Anyway, I don't want to see the X-Men involved. It's kind've out of left field that they show up. This isn't a mutant related incident. I want to see a subtle mention that the Latverian Government is the one behind underground attacks on SHIELD only because they're building a clone of The Ultimates as said in USM. And on that note I don't want to see Spider-Man involved either. Just because it was a concept created in USM doesn't mean he can't be elsewhere when the major plan hits the real target.

Bendis said that Latveria is building cloned ultimates? Oh Christ, that's awful.

I see absolutely no reason why Latveria should be involved, it's silly. What are Latveria's politics apart from being evil? Millar wouldn't go for that.

 

[fireproof]

I think that is one of the points that Millar is trying to get across. But I do tend to agree, and those that are running things will be new characters, though I do not believe that they are totally disassociated with the Ultimates.

I think so too, I mean it's pretty hard for it to be an accident. I also think it can be a cool idea, I just don't think it has to go on this long, so I'm hoping issue ten will turn a corner.

You and me both.

Me too.

Who wants to see Namor as the traitor? :twisted:

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

Bendis said that Latveria is building cloned ultimates? Oh Christ, that's awful.

I see absolutely no reason why Latveria should be involved, it's silly. What are Latveria's politics apart from being evil? Millar wouldn't go for that.

Bendis "Said" nothing. But Latveria is in the backdrop of every ultimate title. Black Widow just so happened to be at the Latverian Embassey, Latveria wanted the Fantastic Four from Mad Thinker, Latveria built their own Iron Man (Beetle) and wanted samples of any major supersoldier they could get their hands on. The Ultimates/SHIELD is worried about other countries but who besides The Union has shown even a hint of building a supersoldier army? Only Latveria in the UU. At least in this way it makes sense and we just don't get a "Oh, without it being mentioned someone was building this team for months without anyone noticeing" I'm not supporting it. I'm just saying it's more plausible than anyone else.

 

[Guijllons]

Bendis "Said" nothing. But Latveria is in the backdrop of every ultimate title. Black Widow just so happened to be at the Latverian Embassey, Latveria wanted the Fantastic Four from Mad Thinker, Latveria built their own Iron Man (Beetle) and wanted samples of any major supersoldier they could get their hands on. The Ultimates/SHIELD is worried about other countries but who besides The Union has shown even a hint of building a supersoldier army? Only Latveria in the UU. At least in this way it makes sense and we just don't get a "Oh, without it being mentioned someone was building this team for months without anyone noticeing" I'm not supporting it. I'm just saying it's more plausible than anyone else.

Team up issues, half assed comments and video-game references are not enough for me to consider Latveria to be a backdrop to every Ultimates title.
Bendis' ramblings had better not make it into the Ultimates.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

Team up issues, half assed comments and video-game references are not enough for me to consider Latveria to be a backdrop to every Ultimates title.
Bendis' ramblings had better not make it into the Ultimates.

If The Ultimates was meant to exclude the rest of the Ultimate Universe it should've been it's own deal. Don't get mad that some author's attempt to use other titles to complete the universe. Like I said I think this Anti-Ultimates Team will have nothing to do with Latveria or X-Men but that's exactly why I like Vaughan more as a writer. He acknowledges. Millar has an oppurtunity to either make a good story or send a splash that will ripple throughout an entire universe. Either way I'm not gonna be very disappointed but at least both options make sense wheather we like it or not. And video games, "Half assed comments", and Team-Up issues are part of the Ultimate Universe. Like I said if it is Latveria all it has to be is a mention. No one is gonna care what country the bad guys came from because America has enemies which is the point. All they're gonna care about is how The Ultimates react. But I'd feel better knowing that I can at least access where these villains came from.

 

[Guijllons]

But I'd feel better knowing that I can at least access where these villains came from.

But Al Qaeda don't have a country of origin, they're a blanket name for many groups and are not affiliated with any particular government, which is why I think HYDRA would take that role in this modern age.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

But Al Qaeda don't have a country of origin, they're a blanket name for many groups and are not affiliated with any particular government, which is why I think HYDRA would take that role in this modern age.

I welcome Hydra. I think I brought them up in my original there is a traitor on the team theory. I'm just saying no one can say Latveria doesn't make sense.

 

[Guijllons]

I welcome Hydra. I think I brought them up in my original there is a traitor on the team theory. I'm just saying no one can say Latveria doesn't make sense.

It doesn't make sense from Millar's real world vibe.